9/11 FOIA Flight Envelopes
This article is based on the research of Clues Forum proving that on September 11, 2001 the alleged flights AA11, UA93, UA175 and AA77 did in fact not take place.
The 9/11 FOIA Saga
by Hoi Polloi on January 11th, 2010, 9:42 pm
What is a flight manifest?
Official flight manifests are twin copies of the final documents regarding weight of total passengers, crew, fuel on board and so on, signed by the airline captain and put in two places: the airplane itself and the airport from which the plane departed. It would have a final irrefutably "official" passenger list for all the alleged 9/11 flights. If such a document existed, it would override the stupid and inadequate citation in the 9/11 Commission Report even citing correspondence between commissioners as a source of what they guess might be a passenger list — how foolish and pathetic! (See lower post: viewtopic.php?p=2216787#p2216787 for some official citation.) Which terrorist agency is supposed to have ran away with the flight envelopes containing the manifests?
A call to the FAA
When I was first introduced to the world of the researchers by Simon Shack, who had already done some scouting ahead, as it were, we would occasionally chat about various odd behaviors of officials and what we could do to get a straight answer. So after a few years of casual research and gaining confidence, and with September Clues fairly fresh in my mind, I got to thinking that this would actually be a pretty good idea. (Update: I called the FAA about the flight envelopes as early as 2008 or 2009.) Anyway, the response of the official I spoke with was something like this: No airplane should ever be allowed to take off without doing that paperwork. If any did, the airline would be dissolved by the government immediately and not allowed to fly passengers. I commented that it must be strange that the 9/11 flights never had any flight manifests reported and the official agreed with me; that would be very strange indeed. Then he paused and, as if unable to comprehend such a scenario, insisted: there must be flight manifests. Somewhere. The FAA would have to have them and if not them, some other agency. The fact that the manifests didn't or wouldn't exist was, in short, inconceivable.
I managed to contact another FAA official shortly, and it was determined that all 9/11 data was given to NARA. I confirmed with the airport and the FAA: all 9/11 data.
All. 9/11 data. Was now in the hands of NARA — the National Archives.
FOIA to NARA
Thus began my quest for the 9/11 Flight Manifests, which I hoped would be divulged to the public with my FOIA request. But when I filed the FOIA, NARA replied that — although they were indeed in possession of all 9/11 data — nothing resembling a flight manifest or flight envelope was in their archive.
Borrowing the incredulity of the FAA officials that had convinced me they must exist, I acquired from them a list of all the 9/11 files in their archive (including only short names and descriptions) so that I could hand pick files that may lead me to the ultimate fate of those manifests. They did not want to tell me more information, since they believed that I should know what I'm looking for. A security procedure or obfuscation measure maybe — after all, I can quite rightly be called ignorant for not giving them any further specification about what absolutely should be there. Yet, when I asked for "envelope", "manifest" and "passenger list" files, they said nothing in the archive at all matched those terms.
So, with confidence and a pen, I picked data logs, NORAD/FAA recordings, written documents and anything labeled flight 11, 77, 93, 175, etc. — but without a good way to ask them the actual contents, I defaulted to the principle that more would be better than less at this point. After a long time (the dragging correspondence I had with them is documented in this thread) the files finally were prepared. I had apparently, according to NARA, selected a mishmash of useless, unrelated, and seemingly minimal data describing the bare minimum of alleged "research" done by "officials" in response to the 9/11 drill-that-was-never-an-actually-proven-terrorist-attack. Yet, what choice had they given me? The manifests don't exist, and what they have prepared all barely resembles anything that would be part of an official investigation into the massive conspiracy the government says exists.
And so, ultimately, this bizarre collection has a largely artificial air to it, as if presented by agents dabbling in stretching the truth with forged seals and so on, but not with the experience/intoxication levels of the low level calviphiles that hammered out the official CNN vicsim propaganda. I invite you to take a look at what they claim is a generous sample from "all 9/11 data" supposedly in possession by NARA.
http://www.septclues.com/NARA-FOIA/NW_35023/
(Warning: some sound files are extremely long and dull large and may take some time to tolerate or believe download.)
---
The following is a record of my attempts to acquire flight data about the supposed flights which were allegedly hijacked on 9/11.
---
It started with a conversation about the existence of the "envelope" for all flights which leave American airports -- and the sudden realization that apparently nobody else has filed FOIA requests to receive this data ... and thus all the data that would have to list all terrorists and passengers in a final list that could not change. Since one copy goes with the pilot and one stays on the ground, there should have been absolutely no confusion about the passengers as there apparently are.
This is how I filled in their form:
09/29/2009 01:32
To: _________@FAA
Subject: Request under the Freedom of Information Act, 5 U.S.C. 552
Fee category:
I request that a copy of the following documents (or documents containing the following information) be provided to me:
I am requesting something known as THE ENVELOPE for the four alleged hijacked flights on 9/11. I am specifically looking for a document in this envelope, signed by the aircraft Captain on each flight, which contains the final passenger manifest,the destination, the amount of fuel on board, the names of the pilot and flight attendants, etc., and the time the door of the aircraft was closed.
This document is supposed to be in this envelope when it is handed to the chief Flight Attendant, who hands it to a terminal employee. The chief flight attendant then closes the door and this document remains on the ground in airline custody. It is required by the FAA, and is what is opened in case of a crash. Every person on board, including late arrivals or supposed hijackers would be accounted for.
I would like this document for the four apparent flights of AA11, AA77 (both American Airlines), and UA175 and UA93 (both United Airlines).
In order to determine my status to assess fees, you should know that my fee category is: an individual seeking records for personal use and not for profit.
The maximum dollar amount I am willing to pay for this request is $50. Please notify me if the fees will exceed $25.00 or the maximum dollar amount I entered.
I request a waiver of all fees for this request. Specific explanation for waiver of fees:
1. This document may reveal complicity of traitorous factions within our government who allowed the crime of 9/11 to take place and protected its operants. 2. This document may reveal names of individuals complicit who have positions in our government and who want to undermine the present administration. 3. This document will help the American people understand who was responsible for the 9/11 terror event. 4. The American people may be able, with cooperation of loyal American government persons, to oust the traitors and try them for war crimes against Americans. 5. I have no explanation of how this information could be commercially exploited. As an important element of the public record, it may appear in books or newspapers or magazines. However, the nature of the information may be so controversial that no commercial interest will print it. Therefore, it is nigh guaranteed that commercial interests are at the lowest level possible. 6. I have no further explanation as to how this information could be commercially exploited. I have no commercial interest in this information whatsoever, and I think the American people will benefit in social and political understanding strictly.
I request expedited processing of the request and provide a justification below. I believe a compelling need exists to warrant expedited processing because there is an imminent threat to the life or physical safety of an individual.
Please see above explanations and the reason for expedition should be urgently clear.
Thank you for your consideration of this request.
Sincerely, ________
This was the FAA's first response:
Mr. ______:
All Federal Aviation Administration records related to September 11, 2001 have been sent the National Archives and Records Administration, which now has legal custody of the files.
You may wish to contact NARA at:
Ms. Martha Wagner Murphy Special Access and FOIA Staff (NWCTF) National Archives and Records Administration 8601 Adelphi Road College Park, MD 20740-6001
Please let us know if you will withdraw your request to the FAA.
Thank you Joann FOIA Program Office 202-267-7950
Just in case I misread, I sent this response:
I will submit the request to the FAA in case anything comes out of it. It seems organizations in our government are sometimes unwilling to talk to one another about this issue.
I will also send a new request to NARA and forward this e-mail to them.
Thank you so much for your help! Sincerely, ________
which was responded to:
The FAA does not have any records -- all records were sent to NARA, who now has legal custody of the records.
But just to be completely Kafka-esque, I ventured:
I understand. Is there any further this request can go in the FAA, please?
Thank you so much!
And finally received this seemingly definitive response:
Mr. ______:
Sorry, but there is no other office involved in the 9/11 issue. One office collected all records on the 9/11 hijackings. On September 14, these FAA records were officially transferred to NARA. All requests for 9/11 records are to be sent to NARA at the address provided to you in an earlier email.
Thank you FAA FOIA office
So, I thanked them for their time and continued my pursuit at NARA.
Then, a separate request specifically to NARA:
Date: Tue, 06 Oct 2009 12:58:56 Subject: FOIA Request To: foia@nara.gov
National Archives,
I have been referenced your office by the FAA, and I have forwarded ahead of this e-mail the response I received from them in regards to this request. In that response, I was told that all information pertaining to 9/11 was transfered to your offices. Presumably, the information I have submitted a request for is regarded by the FAA as pertaining to 9/11. So I am now submitting the request to you. I am asking that a copy of the following documents (or documents containing the following information) be provided to me:
Some weeks passed, and I received a physical envelope with the message that my request has been processed and I could seek updates at an e-mail address at NARA.
My requests to that address have thus far yielded no response whatsoever. Last edited by hoi.polloi on May 22nd, 2016, 5:17 am, edited 10 times in total. Reason: adding links on first post
See also
References
Fakeologist
Cluesforum
Hoaxbusters