A General Antarctic Thread

Home Forums Suspicious Media Events A General Antarctic Thread

This topic contains 27 replies, has 2 voices, and was last updated by  xileffilex 8 hours, 45 minutes ago.

Viewing 20 posts - 1 through 20 (of 28 total)
  • Author
    Posts
  • #836965

    xileffilex
    Participant

    One of the events of the mysterious General Byrd led Operation Highjump was the loss of plane George 1 which resulted, allegedly, in three dead sailors being left intombed in 100 ft of ice [Antarctica is a desert….] on felicitously remote Thurston Island just before the quiet news time of New Year.

    That was in the winter of 1946-7, Antarctic summer.
    Now we have had in recent years, a warming up the psy-op with cries for the boys to be brought home, a familiar trope in hoaxes.

    Now, a movement has grown, perhaps fizzling out, to repatriate the “loved ones”
    http://www.nspolar.us/missions/antarctica/

    The website is recently defunct
    https://web.archive.org/web/20080905170256/http://www.george1recovery.org/
    and the facebook page is moribund
    https://www.facebook.com/George-1-Repatriation-Project-182594343397/
    But the event did occasion an article in the May 2013 issue of Nat Geo. [another hoaxy sign]

    and then the book….the son is a Democratic candidate in Florida

    The whole story is here, with some nice pen and ink drawings highlighting the names painted on the wings. All we are missing is the film of the event.
    http://www.south-pole.com/p0000153.htm

    Videos
    contemporary footage

    2007 news report on the recovery operation
    note at 1.30 “Lopez Hendersin Williams dead ” on the plane wing.

    from the rambling South-Pole.com narrative…

    We buried our dead and the Captain held services for all of them – Lopez, Hendersin, and Williams

    2012 repatriation story here
    http://www.seeker.com/airmen-lost-in-antarctic-ice-may-be-recovered-1765840535.html

    n 2004, a Chilean Orion P-3 aircraft doing mapping work for NASA deployed ground-penetrating radar on Thurston Island discovered an anomaly under the ice that could signal the presence of the intact plane. Using old photographs and the radar data, NASA officials estimated it was buried beneath 100 to 150 feet of ice, according to Rich Lopez, a mechanical engineer from Oakton, Md., and nephew of Ensign Maxwell. Lopez who was one of the fallen crew members Lopez said that even though it’s extremely difficult to work in Antarctica, and despite the risks, he wants his uncle’s remains to come home.

    The Navy considers GEORGE I to be the final resting place of these brave sailors, and we do not support disturbing or potentially desecrating their remains.”

    Hmmm

    #836966

    xileffilex
    Participant

    Another familiar trope – the “mummy”
    Robbins pays a visit to Frenchie Lt. Cdr. Ralph P. LeBlanc (Frenchie), USN, who lived until August 21 1994.

    The 145-octane fuel was ignited by the engine exhaust flames. BOOM! — 1,345 gallons most likely created the largest aircraft explosion ever, and how!
    …. Needless to say, he was terribly burned. Bill Kearns stayed at Frenchie’s side and applied sulfur powder to the exposed burned areas….His face had been burned severely. His mouth was burned to the point that he had to break his lips open with the fingers of his one good hand. He could not move his mouth much or it would break open at the corners and bleed. I kept Frenchie on a special buttermilk diet, prepared by heating canned milk and adding a small amount of butter and sugar. Sometimes, I would add slight variations as long as everything could be completely liquid. Bill Kearns would feed him. Frenchie never complained. It was even difficult for him to talk. He learned to manage quite well without moving his mouth at all. Bill patched him up as best he could with sulfur powder and added more whenever he felt it was needed….we were awakened by Frenchie yelling (as best he could) “Plane – Plane!”

    Mmmm a dramatic recovrery?

    It was difficult to tell how Frenchie was really doing. He seemed fairly cheerful at times, even wise-cracking occasionally – – quite a guy!

    Amazing guy! Indestructible.

    We gently lowered Frenchie into the life raft and paddled him out to the plane where he was carefully placed on a bunk in the after-bunk room. A Corpsman had been brought along from the Ship and he took over the care of Frenchie at this point. At one point, in examining Frenchie, he stated, “this man is completely dehydrated; I do not understand what has kept him alive this long.” What a remarkable human being – this guy we affectionately called “Frenchie” – he certainly never complained to us. He was forever making jokes, or wisecracking to keep us from worrying about him. Some kind of guy!!

    Frenchie was removed with the help of a forklift and gently carried down to Sick Bay. He appeared to be doing quite well, obviously very pleased and happy, as were we all! ….Frenchie was under close surveillance at all times.
    Just in case the wise cracking should stop – that would have set alarm bells ringing that something was not quite right…

    We were notified that Frenchie was going to have both legs amputated. We had felt certain this would be inevitable, but it still came as a shock! Gangrene had started to travel up his legs and Doctor Barber felt the immediate operation was necessary in order to save as much of each knee joint as possible.

    All of us paid him a visit the night before the operation to remove the first leg. We thought we might be able to cheer him up, but we should have known, nothing could dampen Frenchie’s spirit! In fact, he even told us a couple of good jokes. Up to his old tricks again! Always trying to keep us from worrying, no matter how dismal things looked for him….while the other leg was being removed, Frenchie had this Corpsman in hysterics with one joke after another.
    after Doctor Barber informed Frenchie that both operations were a complete success that Frenchie jokingly made some comment which included the words, “Just call me Shorty, Doc.”

    Frenchie was medically retired and returned to his home in Breaux Bridge, Louisiana, a small suburb of Lafayette, Louisiana. Incidentally, Breaux Bridge is the “Crawfish Capitol of the World”. He married his childhood sweetheart, built his own beautiful brick home, and settled down to raising a family (one of the most beautiful families we have ever had the pleasure to know.)

    In 1952 Frenchie married Mary Daigle who had been a nun for 13 years who only died in 2014.
    http://www.legacy.com/obituaries/theadvertiser/obituary.aspx?pid=169736993

    I can’t find any online images of French post retirement.

    #836968

    xileffilex
    Participant

    Antarctica is the only continuent which is not connected with a communications cable.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Submarine_communications_cable#Antarctica
    Bases on the continent itself are able to communicate with one another via radio, but this is only a local network.

    https://www.usap.gov/technology/contenthandler.cfm?id=1935
    Amundsen-Scott South Pole Station uses communications satellites that serve as relay stations, receiving radio signals from one location and transmitting them to another. The United States Antarctic Program utilizes the satellites for the transfer of South Pole science, operational, and weather data, as well as Internet, telephone, and email services.


    The Marisat GOES terminal radome under assembly. But what’s this?
    The GOES-3 satellite upon which the Amundsen-Scott polar base depends has been dumped…GOES is gone on June 29 2016
    http://www.nesdis.noaa.gov/news_archives/goes_3.html
    July 7 2016
    What a life story!
    The “geostationary satellite” GOES-3 [previously GOES-C] was launched in 1978, so we’re told, and slightly delayed because NASA liked about a month “between launches”.

    Delta 2914 carrier rocket on the “launchpad”
    https://www.flightglobal.com/FlightPDFArchive/1978/1978%20-%200909.PDF

    How did GOES-3 achieve its Antarctic “role”?
    The inclination of GOES-3’s orbital plane, in respect to Earth’s equator, was drifting higher and higher. This unique, high- inclination orbit meant that GOES-3 could make a direct connection between Earth’s polar caps and the United States for 6.5 hours a day—a rare capability that caught the eye of the National Science Foundation (NSF).

    Good spot, NSF!

    After a long career, GOES-3’s curtain call began on June 15, 2016. Following 14 days and 20 orbital adjustment maneuvers, the satellite was carefully placed into a “graveyard” orbit, safely removed from operating geostationary satellites
    Brilliant. Here’s an “artist’s impression” of the “satellite” now in “graveyard orbit”

    Why dump this remarkable link with Antarctica?
    https://www.eurekalert.org/pub_releases/2016-08/nsf-gsd082516.php
    The satellite’s dwindling propellant supply triggered the need to move it to a disposal orbit.

    the graveyard orbit is a few hundred kilometers above the operational orbit.
    Hmm, I thought GOES-3 had already drifted “higher and higher”.
    The transfer to a graveyard orbit above geostationary orbit requires the same amount of fuel that a satellite needs for about three months of stationkeeping. It also requires a reliable attitude control during the transfer maneuver. While most satellite operators try to perform such a maneuver at the end of their satellites’ operational lives, through 2005 only about one-third succeeded.[2] However, as of 2011, most recently decommissioned geosynchronous spacecraft were said to have been moved to a graveyard orbit.[3]
    all overseen by the Inter-Agency Space Debris Coordination Committee
    LOL!
    Chair – Prof. Richard Crowther, UKSA, United Kingdom perhaps because the last meeting was at Harwell,UK in early 2016
    http://www.iadc-online.org/index.cgi?item=docs_pub

    Hmm, not much to see there.

    https://www.eurekalert.org/pub_releases/2016-08/nsf-gsd082516.php

    “During its 21 years of operation for the United States Antarctic Program, the GOES-3 satellite provided life-supporting phone and internet communication services to the research community,” noted Hans Graber, director of the University of Miami’s Richmond Satellite Operations Center at the Center for Southeastern Tropical Advanced Remote Sensing (CSTARS), which had operated the satellite since 1995.
    GOES-3 was able to communicate with the station because an oscillation in its orbital plane shifted it far enough south for its signals to reach the bottom of the planet for about 6.5 hours per day.

    “Over 14 days and 20 orbital adjustment maneuvers, the satellite was carefully nudged into a ‘graveyard’ orbi
    So, how is the “research community” in Antarctica communication with the other continents? Probably the same as before.
    NSF will replace the service provided by GOES-3 with the Defense Satellite Communications System Phase III, vehicle B7 (DSCS III B7) satellite, which is visible from the South Pole for about 3.5 hours per day. As a result, the station will see internet access speeds increase from roughly 1.5 megabits per second (MBPS) under GOES, to up to 30 MBPS under DSCS
    The new DSCS capability was used to provide telemedicine video capabilities from the South Pole to the United States during the recent medical consultations that preceded the evacuation of two patients from the South Pole in late June.
    Staged event? Fancy not spotting that capability before.

    And so it came to pass
    October 11 2016
    http://www.lockheedmartin.com/us/news/press-releases/2016/october/ssc-101116-DSCS-south-pole.html
    Long-Serving DSCS Satellite Takes Over Role of Linking Antarctic Researchers to the World
    “The DSCS constellation has been a legacy workhorse for the U.S. military’s super-high frequency communications,” said Chris Ayres, director of Operations, Sustainment and Logistics at Lockheed Martin Space Systems. “Now operating past twice its design life, it is gratifying to see DSCS III B7 still delivering value, providing significant return on investment by furthering scientific research and providing potentially life-saving communications with a location that is otherwise unreachable.”
    Originally built by Lockheed Martin and launched on July 31, 1995 with a ten year-design life, DSCS III B7 builds on the constellation’s reputation for providing extended service life. Six on-orbit DSCS III satellites remain operational with more than 259 years of combined service life, already providing nearly 120 extra years of mission life.
    Lockheed Martin sustains the DSCS constellation, as well as the Advanced Extremely High Frequency (AEHF) system and Milstar blocks I and II, under the Air Force’s Combined Orbital Operations Logistics Sustainment (COOLS) program.

    So there we have it. Allegedly
    hmmm.. Same old ionosphere though..

    HT Simon Shack,Cluesforum
    http://cluesforum.info/viewtopic.php?f=23&t=1070&start=765

    #836971

    xileffilex
    Participant

    From the above, the rescue of two sick workers from the South Pole, amazingly coincidental with the dumping of one satellite, to be replace with another, is potentially very hoaxy.
    Sure enough, a big splash in the Daily Mail
    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3654814/Rescue-flight-leaves-South-Pole-2-sick-US-workers.html
    A small plane with two sick US workers arrived safely in Chile late Wednesday after leaving Antarctica in a daring rescue mission from a remote South Pole research station, officials said.

    After making a stop for a few hours at a British station on the edge of Antarctica, the two workers were flown to the southernmost Chilean city of Punta Arenas, the National Science Foundation said in a statement published on its Facebook page.

    In a hectic two days of flying, the rescue team flew 3,000 miles roundtrip from the British station Rothera to pick up the workers at the US Amundsen-Scott station at the South Pole.

    They arrived back at Rothera on Wednesday afternoon, said Peter West, spokesman for the foundation [NSF], which runs the US station. Then the two workers boarded a second Canadian-owned Twin Otter plane that took off for Punta Arenas.
    And the familiar drill photo…from Chile, not Antarctica of course

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/06/22/daring-rescue-flight-leaves-south-pole-after-picking-up-sick-wor/
    June 22 2016
    The agency won’t identify the sick workers or their conditions, citing medical privacy.
    Naturally.
    Hold on, there’s only one sick worker now.
    The National Science Foundation decided last week to mount the rescue operation because one staffer needed medical care that can’t be provided there. The station has a doctor, a physician’s assistant and is connected to doctors in the U.S. for consults, West said. There are 48 people – 39 men and nine women – at the station.

    There have been three emergency evacuations from the Amundsen-Scott station since 1999. The 1999 flight, which was done in Antarctic spring with slightly better conditions, rescued the station’s doctor, Jerri Nielsen, who had breast cancer and had been treating herself. Rescues were done in 2001 and 2003, both for gallbladder problems.

    oh, the narrative changed

    https://www.theguardian.com/world/2016/jun/21/antarctica-polar-rescue-planes-medical-emergency
    June 23 2016
    . It later became apparent that the second worker also needed to be evacuated.
    This kind of midwinter rescue has been attempted only twice before: once in 2001, when the base’s only physician came down with a potentially fatal case of pancreatitis; and once in 2003. Both airlifts were successful.

    Must have suddenly developed a secret life-threatening condition.
    The flight took approximately 10 hours each way

    Where was the ABC news story coming from? Hoax central, Alex Marquardt in London!
    http://abcnews.go.com/International/dramatic-south-pole-medical-rescue-underway/story?id=40020761
    “evacuated at least one, possibly two patients…a second person will likely come out too…”
    obviously a difficulty diffentiating between one and two in the intensely cold antarctic, perhaps all counting fingers have been lost through frostbite or a snowstorm white out in the desert caused uncertainty?

    Verdict – HOAX

    #836972

    xileffilex
    Participant

    This woman Dr [med] Beth Healey was all over the UK media late this summer, having just got back from 14 months at high altitude Concordia Antarctic station, working for the European Space Agency and…

    doing research for the long-duration space flight mission

    i.e. Mars. hmmm

    It’s all very very nebulous, this research, reminiscent of “research” carried out at the ISS. The Northern Irish interviewer seems to be treading very very carefully in his questioning, as if on eggshells.
    e.g from 23.10 here

    Beth and colleagues at Concordia

    source – http://www.standard.co.uk/lifestyle/london-life/beth-healey-meet-the-doctor-who-braved-remotest-antarctica-in-the-name-of-space-exploration-a3340031.html
    September 8 2016

    and here


    [she returned in January 2016]
    @17:10 – the bulldozer supply train route is 1300 km [!] from Dumont d’Urville Station on the coast,itself supplied from Hobart by the icebreaker L’Astrolabe. I think it would be more interesting to get hold of those bulldozer drivers [if that is what really happens] rather than Beth. [@37.10 she joins the traverse en route home except she flies to Cap Prud’Homme to drive back to Concordia…] taking snow samples. naturally.
    Nice plug for “astronaut” Scott Kelly at 22:30

    “…we did have internet access and we could skype as well” but they had to go to a “special computer” to access emails, not on individual computers….

    hmmm

    #836979

    xileffilex
    Participant

    I missed this Hot Potatoes clip, – quite interesting – an interview with Robert Shortman who was a plumber for one year at Halley base. Patricia gets the information out of him nicely.
    Robert is genuine – his father runs a plumbing firm at Longstanton and his remarks are credible.

    Coincidentally, the then recent subject of the two anonymous people airlifted to Chile from Scott Polar base is touched upon at 7.00 briefly, but with no scepticism.

    Halley Diary — September 2003


    He blogged in 2003 on the BAS site
    A longer interview between Robert and a less crisp compere is here

    Robert is a flat earther, but it would be nice if he checked in here or perhaps at Rick Potvin’s Circumnavigation site with his curiosity.

    #837026

    xileffilex
    Participant

    Jungle Surfer has been poking around the NZ 901 “crash” in Antarctica on November 28 1979, in the days when Air New Zealand allegedly was running tourists flights there and back.

    The material is pulled from the reconstruction which is widely available on YouTube,
    e.g.

    Red Flags – a US military plane was 15 or 50 [can’t decipher] minutes behind the tourist liner. The “wreckage” at 6.18, especially the old hoax favorite at 6.47, the piece of cabin. 257 “bodies” to recover.
    Victim list – http://antarctic.homestead.com/901.html
    Memorials – http://www.erebus.co.nz/MemorialandAwards/RollofRemembrance.aspx

    Photos developed from the passengers’ cameras found in the wreckage showed that the weather over Antarctica had been clear moments before the crash

    I’d expect that, since Antarctica is a desert. Verdict – whiteout, making a mountain invisible, allegedly.
    The film of the event…

    January 17 2015
    http://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/life/features/nothing-can-prepare-you-for-what-an-air-disaster-looks-like-30906849.html
    It was to be the fourth biggest air disaster the world had ever seen. And back then, in a tranquil country of just three million people, the shock was universal.
    “It was a huge, huge disaster for New Zealand. That many people dying in a country so small, particularly in the 1970s, it resonated with everyone,” says filmmaker Charlotte Purdy, whose uncle, a crew member, died in the crash. Inspired by her uncle’s story, 35 years after the crash, Purdy has made a film entitled Erebus: Into the Unknown, which is due to open in the UK this Friday.

    Red flag alert……

    It quickly became apparent that it was up to the New Zealand authorities to assemble a team to bring back the bodies. This was an era before organised search and rescue teams existed, so they cast around among their own and came up with the best they could muster. It comprised 11 policemen – ordinary coppers whose jobs were in 1970s Christchurch and Wellington. Many had never even seen snow before, and one had only just turned 22. Woefully inexperienced, they were picked for the job because, by coincidence, the very same day of the crash, they had just completed a short course in Disaster Victim Identification (DVI).

    “The course was actually in preparation for dealing with bodies in an event such as an earthquake,” says Stuart Leighton, a constable with three years’ experience on the beat in Wellington

    Drill time.

    Leighton was on the first helicopter out to the crash site, along with the leader of the team Robert Mitchell and Inspector Greg Gilpin, officer in charge of body recovery.

    “I was completely out of my depth,” says Leighton. “Nothing can prepare you for what an air disaster looks like. There were 257 people smashed to pieces on the mountainside amid an overpowering smell of kerosene. When I stood in the middle of the wreckage I couldn’t help feeling like being physically sick. My colleagues felt the same way. We were totally unprepared for such devastation.”

    The men used the system that they had just been taught on the DVI course – which was to locate, photograph, tag and then bag the bodies. Unfortunately, they had been given clear plastic body bags which meant that everyone who handled them later had to see what was inside; “a very early lesson was to use opaque body bags,” says Leighton. And if there was any human flesh, sinews or even the smallest scrapings, they scooped them up, bagged them and meticulously numbered them.
    Hideously, the men carried out all this grisly work in the same pair of gloves which, as the days passed, became clogged with the fluids and grease of human remains. “We couldn’t take them off because we would get frostbite,” says Leighton. “So we ended up having meals, feeding the food to our mouths with them on. It wasn’t pleasant, but we had to eat.”
    Nine days later, testament to the men’s perseverance, the task was complete. Out of the 257 bodies, 213 were eventually positively identified, which means, against all odds, the Mount Erebus clean-up went down in history as one of the most successful ever.
    “For years later it was the highest identification of any major air disaster,” says Leighton. “Because we were so methodical, it was held up as a leading example. The operation helped establish body-recovery protocols that are now used worldwide.

    It’s not looking good for this to have been a real disaster.

    The “victim” list had a smattering of overseas nationals – two Australians, a Frenchman, two Canadians BEAUMONT Earl Aubrey BEAUMONT and
    Eija Kylli Harjatta PARKAARI [of Finnish extraction]
    22 US citizens, 24 Japanese, two Swiss and five British nationals, whom we will look at next….

    For the 30th anniversary, there was naturally a repeat of old footage, including that familiar lucky trope, the visible airline identification logo at 0.20 in the video…followed by two pilot widows from NZ 901…

    Anne Cassin, widow of Gregory, First Officer –

    “I wouldn’t wish this on any spouse of a crew member – frankly it’s been hell…”

    • This reply was modified 1 year, 1 month ago by  xileffilex. Reason: spell
    #837028
    antipodean
    antipodean
    Participant

    Hi Felix I’ve touched on the Erebus disaster a couple of times over at Clues forum.

    At the risk of sounding like “I know someone who knew someone”. I have worked with 2 different people who had connections to the passengers.
    Firstly a woman who I use to work with broke up with her present partner, because he still couldn’t deal with the fact that he’d lost his then girl friend to the disaster. (which would have been about 15 years prior)

    Also another woman I worked with said she was working at the time in a close knit rural community where most people worked at the local timber mill.
    Some young guy there had thrown a wobbly as both his parents were on the flight.

    Plus when ever the old footage is shown of people boarding the flight. My partner, says she recognizes one of the passengers as a someone she remembers from school.

    http://cluesforum.info/viewtopic.php?p=2376620#p2376620
    http://cluesforum.info/viewtopic.php?p=2213707#p2213707

    #837029

    xileffilex
    Participant

    UK victims, ALLEGED
    Audrey Gordon ANDERSON (Mrs)
    2 Stalisfield Maori Road, Guildford. Estate £52,054
    Susan Elaine COPLEY (Miss)
    67 Cambridge Road, Linthorpe, Middlesbrough, estate £16,028
    Elizabeth Jane EDWARDS 30 [or29] Nae Nae (Miss)
    61 Richmond Road, Newport, South Wales Estate £11,368
    Jean Marie HOLLOWAY 63 [or 64] Glenfield (Mrs)
    no probate
    Elaine Frances TRINDER 26 Epsom
    14 Derwent Drive, Dunstable, Bedfordshire. Estate £1,367

    and another with UK connections
    http://www.erebus.co.nz/MemorialandAwards/RollofRemembrance.aspx
    Miss Nora Violet Delmage was Head Teacher at Winklebury Junior School, Basingstoke, Hampshire, England during the 60s and into the 70’s. I was a pupil at the junior school from 1969 – 1973. – Julia Willcocks
    Edwards seems to have been some kind of polymath with wanderlust.
    She was a physical education teacher who excelled in most sports, and in music. She had many many friends and achieved much more than most in her 29 years….She was at the end of a one year teacher exchange to Nae Nae College, Lower Hutt, Wellington, New Zealand when she and two other exchange teachers took the fateful tourist trip to the Antarctic. She was my sister, but I wish I had known her better. – anonymous comment

    Holloway – My Mum couldn’t wait to enjoy the spectacular views of this awe inspiring continent. She enjoyed travelling and was looking forward so much to flying to Antarctica, the only continent she had not yet visited. Margaret Modricker
    another with wanderlust.

    The Holloway story was kept warm in 2009
    http://www.newshub.co.nz/world/erebus-victims-daughter-reveals-her-personal-struggle-2009102314
    Every day for nearly 30 years Margaret Modricker has worn her late mother’s engagement ring and remembered the blackest days in New Zealand aviation history.

    Her mother was one of the last passengers to be formally identified after two rings and some fragments of her Marks and Spencer underwear were found on the lower slopes of Mt Erebus.
    Mrs Modricker said her grief had become manageable but had never stopped.

    And in February 2011, there was a pilgrimage flight for families
    http://www.newshub.co.nz/nznews/erebus-victims-relatives-return-from-crash-site-2011021717
    Erebus victims’ relatives return from crash site

    104 aboard the 757, yesterday’s trip to Antarctica
    Rochelle Stevenson, who lost one of her parents in the disaster.
    “It was surreal. It was amazingly quiet. It was just fantastic. I think everyone was there on their own little mission… it was great.”
    Ms Stevens said hers was one of the lucky families who got a body back after disaster.

    But it seems [2014] that it is very very difficult to repeat it…
    http://www.newshub.co.nz/nznews/erebus-commemorative-flight-postponed-2014020516
    Air New Zealand has postponed the last of the Erebus commemorative flights to Antarctica for a second year in a row.
    Thirty family members were to make the trip to the ice next week, but Air New Zealand says conditions near Scott Base are too soft for the US Air Force’s C-17 cargo plane to land.
    The journey was to be the third commemorative flight for those who lost loved ones in the Erebus disaster in 1979.
    Another attempt will be made next year.

    It’s amazing then that all those scientists manage to get down there by plane without mishap.
    and the memorial…

    #838091

    xileffilex
    Participant

    Hi Felix I’ve touched on the Erebus disaster a couple of times over at Clues forum.

    At the risk of sounding like “I know someone who knew someone”. I have worked with 2 different people who had connections to the passengers.

    http://cluesforum.info/viewtopic.php?p=2376620#p2376620
    http://cluesforum.info/viewtopic.php?p=2213707#p2213707

    Key quote…

    ..almost a dress rehearsal for the 1983 air disaster of flight KAL007 flight that strayed into Soviet air space..

    Seems like it. And with some or all reassigned people.
    The 74 year old English woman was unmarried and was involved in probate of relatives, her mother and an uncle. From old East India Company stock.

    I think Holloway had already emigrated.

    Unmarried Nora Delmage, b. 1916 Hackney, sister Joyce B., b. 1923, who subsequently reappears in her father’s will as Joyce Mounsey. Her father Frank Septimus Delmage, of Glen Cottage, Glen Road, Hindhead, died in 1961, her mother in 1925 aged 40. There’s no marriage trace for Joyce who at least until her death in November 2014 was living in the region of Hindhead
    http://www.192.com/atoz/people/mounsey/joyce/gu30/2986104273/
    A Captain Capt. R.T. Mounsey was coincidentally president of thee NZ Pilots union in the 1950s
    https://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:RK5HG9MfhCAJ:https://www.nzalpa.org.nz/About-Us/About-NZALPA+

    But this image is perhaps the biggest give-away of all

    not to ignore these…

    and the highly unlikely “loop-the-loop” course

    The whole shaky cover story for this flight path can be read here
    http://www.grasshoppair.com/2015_05_01_archive.html

    #838093

    xileffilex
    Participant

    I forgot the flag drill photos of the unmelted, pristine snow


    Ray Goldring drops a piece of wreckage into one of the crevasses to test its depth
    LOL!
    Antarctica, or somewhere snowy resembling Antarctica is an ideal place to stage an event, no curious idiots to be kept away, no inconvenient spectators.

    From the account of Ray Goldring, who had arrived in Antarctica six weeks prior to the “crash”. A safe pair of hands.
    http://www.erebus.co.nz/theaccident/therecoveryoperation/raygoldringsaccount.aspx
    During the summer of 79/80, I was employed by the NZ Antarctic Research Programme (NZARP) as a Field Safety Leader to help keep some of the scientific party’s safe while they ventured out into the Antarctic wilderness.

    Before I went onto the actual crash area itself, the bogie I had to fight with and overcome was the enormity of the disaster – how could so many people die in such a minute moment of time? More than anything else – the terrible scenes laid out before me on that gentle slope of pure snow, clearly enlightened me as to the tremendous fragility of humankind. The distance between life and death is but a blink of the eye, a flutter of a heart! Throughout the rest of my time there, I had this underlying sadness of the lost potential and the utter waste of it all.
    One of my first tasks was to build a snow-dome toilet to help protect naked bums from the intense wind-chill swirling around the nether regions.
    Kerosene fuel permeated every thing, boots, clothes, skin and food, and it was decided early on that one person had to stay off the site and do all the cooking, so the food no longer tasted like kerosene. Hand washing was difficult with only melted snow for water.
    I was given the task by the site team leader of acting as a safety person for all the visitors who were due to come onto the site. My tasks were to help prevent the visitors from falling into the crevasses that had opened up during the crash, and to recover any item that could identify a person on the flight. I was also tasked to recover any computer components that may help in the investigation as to the cause of the crash. During these searches I recovered one of Capt Collin’s personal documents and in the absence of the Air Inspector, gave it to the visitor on the site – an Air NZ pilot.

    Sure.
    No sign of any bodies or body parts, or even a fire or kerosene spill.
    A Lockerbie, 9/11 warm up for sure.

    PS Correction to above, Miss Delmage’s sister’s marriage was registered under the name Delurge perhaps through a handwriting misinterpretation. John Gerrard Mounsey of Wjrral Lodge, Mount Pleasant, Oxton, Wirral died 1980.
    http://www.myfamilyannouncements.co.uk/theherald/view/3605005/mounsey

    Perhaps, living in the same area, unmarried retired women Audrey Anderson and Nora Delmage knew each other.
    probate found – Nora Violet Delmage of 10 Ash Grove, Kingsclere Estate £39,356

    • This reply was modified 1 year, 1 month ago by  xileffilex.
    #838177

    xileffilex
    Participant

    The laboratory part of the disaster drill, repeated in subsequent plane “crashes” is reported here
    http://www.nzhistory.net.nz/media/photo/identifying-erebus-victims

    sideburns in fashion at the Auckland mortuary.
    By the time the second flight carrying bodies from the Erebus disaster crash site arrived on 11 December 1979 the pathology teams tasked with determining cause of death had completed post-mortem examinations on the first 114 bodies. They completed the remainder by 21 December. As subsequently reported in the chief air accident investigator’s report, their examinations indicated that:

    All the victims were killed by the injuries received at the initial impact rather than as a result of burns sustained in the subsequent fire.
    In all, 213 of the 257 victims were identified. The identification rate of 82.9% compared well to those achieved following other air crashes. The remaining 44 victims either could not be positively identified, or their bodies had not been recovered from the crash site.

    That’s the fire which doesn’t melt snow.
    It’s starting to sound a little scripted, and re-used, inter alia, post 9/11.

    Comment – from a very genuine sounding former pupil
    …I remember her telling me when I was 10 in 1975 (as she sat next to me while I was eating my school dinner), how she was looking forward to travelling the World once she retired
    Apparently her “remains” were not identified and her name appears on the quickly erected memorial in Waikumete Cemetery in Auckland along with the other 43 similarly unidentified “passengers”.

    source – http://www.nzhistory.net.nz/media/photo/erebus-disaster-memorial-waikumete-cemetery
    to the inquest…
    In the days that followed the passengers were considered in turn. The overseas passengers were considered on 23 January, and the New Zealand passengers on 24, 25 and 29 January. In each case an Air New Zealand staff member presented evidence that the individual had presented their flight ticket. Then, where they had been positively identified, Chief Inspector Jim Morgan confirmed that a body or remains had been recovered and the means by which it was identified. In each case the coroner made the finding that the individual:

    died at Mt Erebus, Antarctica, on 28 November 1979, death being due to multiple injuries when the deceased was a passenger on Air New Zealand flight TE901, which crashed into Mt Erebus, Antarctica.
    On 30 January, the last day of the inquest, the cabin and flight crew were considered in turn. Again evidence was given where the crew member had been positively identified. For the one staff member who had not been positively identified, an Air New Zealand staff member gave evidence that the individual had reported for work on the flight. Evidence was also given that no alcohol or drugs were present in the flight crew.

    how, I wonder??? We were not yet at the advanced stage of finding passports in the wreckage, which was developed in subsequent years.

    Who’s this describing the wreckage from above?
    http://www.nzhistory.net.nz/media/sound/bob-thompson-describes-wreckage-erebus
    Bob Thomson, [Robert Baden Thomson, 1927-2008] superintendent of the Antarctic Division of the Department of Scientific and Industrial Research,

    He wrote a book Last Flight to Antarctica which was not published.
    Bob was awarded a second OBE in the New Zealand honours list for his work in the aftermath of the Mount Erebus tragedy. He was
    also awarded the New Zealand Polar Medal.

    Robert (Bob) Baden Thomson died in Virginia, USA, where he had moved to, from Christchurch, in the early 1990s.

    source – http://www.antarctic.org.nz/pdf/Antarctic/Antarctic.V25.4.2007.pdf
    Oh, that’s credible then.

    A 25th anniversary thread at pprune, where all crashes, however ridiculously fake, are treated as real [lol!] is here
    http://www.pprune.org/australia-new-zealand-pacific/152934-erebus-25-years.html

    #838900

    xileffilex
    Participant

    I’m not going to plough through 65 pages of pprune forum which is still active, but if one is analysing a series of lies, one can go in circles. Once one assumes the crash was faked it becomes much simpler.
    What’s this in 2005?
    http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=8500784

    Remnants of the crashed DC-10 on Mt Erebus have emerged from the Antarctic ice as New Zealand remembers its worst peacetime tragedy.

    A party that flew to the crash site for a 25th anniversary memorial service yesterday morning was stunned to see a section of the fuselage with the letter A and the Air New Zealand colours clearly visible.

    A jet engine and orange cargo netting lay further up the slope.

    The wreckage has not been visible for years but a light snow year and an unusually warm spring have combined to reveal a stark reminder of the tragic end of flight TE901 with the loss of all 257 people aboard.

    On a clear, relatively mild day of minus 6C those present could only wonder again: how could this have happened?

    The jet, flying on the wrong co-ordinates and in whiteout conditions, struck Erebus just 500m above sea level.

    …with a 14,500 ft mountain straight ahead! Only 13,000 ft out! Must have been a white out.

    But the eleven policemen who went to the “crash” site “to retrieve the bodies of passengers” are still puzzled
    http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=11284082
    Sunday Jun 29, 2014
    Stuart Leighton was the youngest. At 22, he had just a couple of years under his belt, graduating in 1976, and serving at Lower Hutt Police Station.

    He had joined the new Disaster Victim Identification (DVI) Squad in 1978, thinking it would be useful if there were ever an earthquake in Wellington

    “There were four of us in my team,” he says. “We recovered 94 bodies between us. I can’t tell you the worst of what we saw. It would be unprintable.”

    It has taken him decades to work through what happened on that mountain

    He and other officers were sent for a psychological assessment within a week of their return. Another one followed six months later. But he was pretty much left to fend for himself. And for years he lived alone with the horror of the event.

    Justice Peter Mahon, who performed the inquiry, summed it up: Air New Zealand had been involved in “an orchestrated litany of lies” to cover up the truth of that horrible day. However, the Judicial Committee of the Privy Council in 1983 found he had acted in breach of natural justice with his conclusion that Air New Zealand had been involved in a conspiracy.

    Greg Gilpin, then a sergeant, attended a training day for DVI Squad, as did Leighton, at National Police Headquarters the day TE901 went down.

    Little did we know it was going to occur that very day.”

    Gilpin had been with the police for 14 years. The then-33-year-old had been involved in other tragedies, including the Wahine sinking in 1968. He was stationed at Taranaki St Police Station in Central Wellington.

    Gilpin had experience with death. “I knew I could cope with the bodies,” he says. But the huge site, littered with fluttering green and red flags (green to indicate bodies or body parts, red for crevasses) was outside his experience or imagination.

    I don’t think ANZ was in it alone…yet more convoluted stories followed, an unbelieveable fable about a ring binder and missing pages.


    Plenty of red flags there and I don’t mean those used to mark crevasses.

    #838981
    antipodean
    antipodean
    Participant

    Felix I had a chat with the missus last night. She said the girl she knew from school was a Melinda or a Belinda who was on board with one of her parents. Looks like it would have been Melinda Arnold and her mother.

    The biggest mystery is to why and by whom were the pre flight co ordinates changed.
    I remember this being the subject matter on talk back radio on the 25th anniversary. Still no one can answer what is a fairly simple question.
    That is where I believe the cover remains to this day.

    #839761

    xileffilex
    Participant

    I can’t take 901 any further – it looks like a made for TV/news event. My guess is that it was just another in the long running saga of faking deaths in fake disasters and refining the process of reassignment.
    It looks pretty dry and warm around McMurdo, you could fake a lunar landscape there

    #842095

    xileffilex
    Participant

    Back to the 901 crash briefly, focussing on the younger “victims” who all seemmed to be out in NZ teaching temporarily.
    This Wiki page is very very well tended to..
    https://www.wikitree.com/wiki/Category:Mt_Erebus_Disaster
    From the Auckland Star, November 30 1979
    https://www.wikitree.com/photo/png/Trinder-56
    Elaine Trinder [who] had been teaching at Epsom Normal Primary School for two terms
    In recent weeks Mrs Trinder had been coaching three classes of Standard 2 children in a traditional English “Mummers” play….School Deputy Principal Mrs Bobbie Magee said some of the children would be writing to Mrs Trinder’s parents in England.

    Born Elaine Frances Wilson b 1950, married Christopher B Trinder in 1972,[no birth registered in England and Wales and no subsequent trace]

    https://www.wikitree.com/wiki/Copley-353
    Muss Sue Copley, an exchange teacher from Rotherham, Yorkshire, had been at the Tawa School in Wellington. She was planning to return home for Christmas after a year in New Zealand.


    An English exchange teacher, Miss Elizabeth Edwards from Bournnemouth, was on the flight. She was acting head of the physical education department at NaeNae College, Wellington.

    I wonder what the cost of that Antarctic round trip was, or where it was advertised.

    Oddly, in the Sydney Morning Herald, which had a comprehensive list of “victims”, there appeared a Mr H.A. Potter of England
    https://www.newspapers.com/newspage/121238489/
    Mr Potter subsequently vanishes from the list of “victims”. However, this is a man born in England, Michael Arthur Edwin Potter, 53, an own account farm machinery salesman from Whangaraparoa, Hamilton, but until 1979, of Christchurch and a traveller for Crodis, leaving a wife, a son and a daughter.
    A birth date of April 24 1926 is quoted.[registered Willesden, father Cecil E Potter, mother Alice Mary Adelaide Bunce, b.1901, d. 1984 when living at 21 Windermere Crescent, Goring-by-Sea] siblings Barbara M, b 1928 Bernard John b 1929 d 2004, latterly of Deanfield Road, Henley-on-Thames, m 1955 Joyce B Maskell

    #845484
    antipodean
    antipodean
    Participant

    According to this link the flights were NZ$329 http://www.nzhistory.net.nz/media/interactive/antarctica-flights-brochure.

    What is also interesting is that if the pre flight co – ordinates were deliberately changed to facilitate the plane to crash. Who ever did so would have highly likely been aware that, Edmund Hilary was going to be among the victims.
    But having said that they would also be aware that the crash would have it’s profile heightened, with their being an immediate public out cry demanding answers.

    He was scheduled to commentate on 28 November 1979 Air New Zealand Flight 901, but had to pull out due to work commitments in the United States and was replaced by his close friend Peter Mulgrew. The aircraft crashed into Mount Erebus in Antarctica, killing all 257 on board.[32] Hillary later married Mulgrew’s widow

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Edmund_Hillary

    #847385

    xileffilex
    Participant

    Very interesting, Antipodean. I’ll add a further link contained in the above
    http://www.nzhistory.net.nz/media/interactive/antarctic-experience
    I remain sceptical – the impression I am getting is that exchange students are forking out more than 1000 NZ dollars equivalent to be cooped up in a plane all day with the chance of seeing nothing, barring getting a souvenir book and menu. I’m not buying it at all.

    November 28, 1979 – Sightseeing Plane Crashes in Antarctica With No Survivors

    In 1977, both Australia and New Zealand started to offer scenic flights to Antarctica through Qantas and Air New Zealand. These flights would not land. They would be return flights lasting 12 -14 hours with 4 hours spent circling over the continent.

    These flights were extremely popular with tourists and could be incredibly dangerous. The vast white emptiness the ice shelfs do not provide any visual landmarks. Because you are flying over the south pole, magnetic compasses do not work.

    er,no, you are not flying over the Pole.

    Captain Jim Collins plotted the course at home for his daughter showing her McMurdo sound and telling her that they would keep close to the western side.

    Sure he did…

    The night before the flight, engineers fixed what they thought was a minor glitch in the programming.

    sure….

    some 18 months after Antarctic flights began, 14 months prior to the accident, the airline computerised its method of storing and producing flight plans. At this time, an error was made; the data entry operator keyed a 4 instead of a 6 into the machine, and this error had never been noticed as such. The effect of this erroneous keystroke was to shift the route nearly 30 miles to the west

    sure….

    source – http://www.erebus.co.nz/Background/TheFlightPathControversy.aspx

    The 14 months of prior flights did not end in disaster because those flights all took place with clear skies and good weather.

    Captain Collins “knew” that he was over the McMurdo Sound so when he reduced the altitude to 1,500 feet to get below the storm he should have been fine.

    The crash of flight 901 is the loneliest aircraft disaster in aviation history. The crash site was 40 miles from the American research base, McMurdo Station. It took nine hours for US Navy aircraft to reach the crash site. The crash site was a brown smear on the side of the mountain.

    Air New Zealand, and Qantas airline stopped flying sightseeing tours over Antarctica.

    Tourism flights over Antarctica resumed again in 1994

    As far as I can tell, the resumed flights only came from Australia, which also allegedly operated flights before 1979 alongside New Zealand.

    I’ll bookmark this for the future

    Erebus


    replete with the kind of stories favoured by cinema scriptwriters.
    Suspicious passengers including Michael Seaver Roberts, b July 6 1932 the head of the NZ Tourism Department and Lady Helen Robb, widow. “many were middle aged or elderly” not forgetting the young footlose and fancy free – a typical hoax disaster mix of “victims” off to retirement or starting new lives.

    Another Roberts, Alison Meryl Roberts b 1934 [or Dec 7 1933] shows up in UK immigration records in 1958
    https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:QJDK-6TPR
    who was Michael Roberts’ wife
    https://www.wikitree.com/wiki/Roberts-7857
    children surviving – Carolyn Roberts, Peter Roberts and Stephen Roberts

    One more witness to note – a passenger the week before the “crash”
    http://collections.tepapa.govt.nz/object/1444585
    Sheena Hudson [a passenger] on the 21 November 1979 trip. She had ‘an amazing flight and I was pretty shattered when the crash happened the next week. I had wanted to see Antarctica and it was magic’. The flight inspired her to apply as a general hand at Scott Base in 1985.

    It’s not clear whether she got the job….

    Some information on Antarctic flights from Australia in 2015
    http://www.traveller.com.au/qantas-jumbo-747400-jets-spectacular-southern-journey-over-antarctica-12htsi
    Business class window seats – $A 7500
    Yet, on this flight, it was even more egalitarian. Economy passengers (price: from $1199 per person) wandered through to the business cabin, engaged in conversation, and were allowed to take their photos by people who had paid seven times as much.
    Really?
    Antarctica Flights – brainwave of Phil Asker who also runs Captain’s Choice, the upmarket escorted tours company – has been operating these sightseeing tours over Antarctica since 1994. Most years there are five flights, from Sydney, Brisbane, Melbourne, Adelaide and Perth, with the majority being daytime flights, leaving around 7am and returning 12½ hours later.
    http://www.antarcticaflights.com.au/
    Brisbane: 18 Jan. Perth: 26 Jan. Adelaide: 8 Feb. Melbourne: 15 Feb. Melbourne: 31 Dec.

    some interesting comments there…
    Kaynos3 months ago (edited)
    Btw using Google map a flight from NZ to the center of Antartica is 5000km. A 747 has a 10,000km range. So they could easily do it. Why are they only circling the edge ? They problably going to say it’s for a security purpose.


    comments from some prospective punters
    Brian Bonser What a shame it is so expensive
    · 14 October at 07:06

    Antarctica Flights Hi Brian, while we do appreciate that not everyone can afford to take part in one of our flights, it is considerably cheaper and more convenient than doing a cruise. Plus it gives you a perspective that you don’t get to see from a ship.
    · 18 October at 01:54

    Brian Bonser Antarctica Flights thank you for your reply when you are only on a pension it gets a little hard ,it is on my wife’s and mine bucket list so we have a few years left in our lives so who knows what will happen .What is the cost please from Sydney for two .
    · 18 October at 05:46

    Antarctica Flights Hi Brian, prices start at $1,199 per person and includes a full international meal and bar service.
    Like · Reply · 19 October at 06:40

    LOL!

    #847459
    antipodean
    antipodean
    Participant

    The Pilots forum that Felix posted made interesting reading some people posting for 12 years.
    Even those who think the Erebus disatser was a result of Pilot error still concede that the pre flight co ordinates were changed/ tampered with.
    The only motive I can see for sabotaging the plane to crash would be to off Sir Edmund Hilary, this may sound outlandish but a quick glance at his Wiki page.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Edmund_Hillary

    It states that he was a close friend of Bob Harvey the former labor party president. Who was instrumental in getting Labor Party leader Norman Kirk elected as Prime Minister.
    https://www.nbr.co.nz/article/sir-bob-harvey-remembers-inventing-modern-election-ads-%E2%80%94-and-has-advice-cunliffe-ck-159821

    Later Bob Harvey would fall out with senior labor party MPs when he went public over his views of Norman Kirk’s possible assassination.

    Labour leader Helen Clark gave a strong ticking-off to party president Bob Harvey yesterday over his claim that the CIA was involved in the death of former Prime Minister Norman Kirk.

    http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=12966

    Mid-1974: Gough Whitlam and Norman Kirk begin a series of moves absolutely
    against the Mafia Trilateralists. Whitlam refuses to waive restrictions on
    overseas borrowings to finance Alwest Aluminium Consortium of Rupert
    Murdoch, BHP and R.J. Reynolds. Whitlam had also ended Vietnam War support,
    blocked uranium mining and wanted more control over US secret spy bases –
    e.g. Pine Gap.

    Kirk had introduced a new, tough Anti-Monopoly Bill and had tried to
    redistribute income from big companies to the labour force through price
    regulation and a wages policy.

    Kirk had also rejected plans to build a second aluminium smelter near
    Dunedin and was preparing the Petroleum Amendment Bill to give more control
    over New Zealand oil resources.

    Kirk had found out that Hunt Petroleum, drilling in the Great South Basin,
    had discovered a huge resource of oil comparable in size to the North Sea
    or Alaskan North Slope. Gas reserves alone now estimated at 30 times bigger
    than Kapuni and oil reserves of at least 20 billion barrels – enough for
    New Zealand to be self-sufficient for years. Oil companies completely
    hushed up these facts. To have announced a vast new oil source would
    probably mean a decline in world oil prices, which would not have allowed
    OPEC and Onassis plans for the Arabs to eventuate. N.Z. could be exploited
    at a later date, particularly since the North Sea operations were about to
    come on stream – Kirk was the last tohold out.

    September, 1974: According to CIA sources, Kirk was killed by the
    Trilateralists using Sodium Morphate. Rowling’s first act as NZ Prime
    Minister was to withdraw Kirk’s Anti-Monopoly Bill and the Petroleum
    Amendment Bill.

    Later, Rowling was to be rewarded with ambassadorship to Washington.
    Incidentally, the Shah of Iran was murdered the same way as Kirk on his
    arrival in the US.

    http://www.infonews.co.nz/news.cfm?id=17241

    In this video below at 10 minutes Kirk boasts of being in good health.
    He goes onto say when a Government has a minor majority of just one things become self perpetuatingly unstable.
    Not so much for passing legislation etc. but it just takes one unfortunate member of government falling over and breaking their back in the bath, for the government to collapse.
    Almost a premonition of what happened to the Whitlam Labor Government in Australia 2 years later.
    https://www.nzonscreen.com/title/frost-over-new-zealand-the-leaders-1973

    I think Hilary was a part of this anti US imperialist inner circle. Plus the Erebus crash has similarities to KAL007 flight which had Larry McDonald on board.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_BPhYEFGaGM

    #847460

    xileffilex
    Participant

    Oh dear I have come too far down the Fakeologist road to believe a single word written about KAL 007
    The Wikilies is a good start to dismiss it all as a hoax
    It probably lies in the fake crashes and helihoaxes thread…
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Korean_Air_Lines_Flight_007
    “Not since the search for the hydrogen bomb lost off Palomares, Spain, has the U.S. Navy undertaken a search effort of the magnitude or import of the search for the wreckage of KAL Flight 007.”

    those fake noo clear weapons again… and another manifestation of the fake cold war

    The incident was one of the most tense moments of the Cold War and resulted in an escalation of anti-Soviet sentiment, particularly in the United States.

    Perhaps I’ll take it there later
    an easy passenger list to recycle, compared with other faked crashes and events
    with a sub 9/11 Legacy feel [things moved on since 1983 in subtlety and plots
    http://www.rescue007.org/passengers.htm
    I bet they were all laught a minute though.
    even a Scottish lass…
    http://www.rescue007.org/mary_jane_hendrie.htm

Viewing 20 posts - 1 through 20 (of 28 total)

You must be logged in to reply to this topic.

This entry was posted on by .

About xileffilex

doubter of everything in the MSM – photojournalists especially. Especially interested in the David Kelly suicide psy-op, Diana faked crash, Boston Marathon hoax. Old man with time to read behind the headlines. Southern England

Follow on Feedly