BBC Match of the Day – what's all this then?

Home Forums Other PsyOps/Hoaxes BBC Match of the Day – what's all this then?

This topic contains 264 replies, has 13 voices, and was last updated by Tom Dalpra Tom Dalpra 1 month, 2 weeks ago.

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  • #8652

    Anonymous

    I’m not sure about this Bradford one Tom. I see where you’re going with it but that day was a dark day for football for me. See, I was at the ‘other’ big event of that day, 11th May 1985. I was at the Birmingham City v Leeds game where massive riots kicked off. A local playscheme (I was only 10, approaching 11) took about 8 of us from the centre to the game. As we were being hurried out later on we saw the wall collapse killing a young boy. I was traumatised for ages afterwards.
    But another side is the fact a good school friend at the time called Richard who came to our school having moved done from Bradford, he had gone back to his home town of Bradford to watch the game. I can’t see a 10/11 year old kid coming back and telling us of his fear there being part of the psy-op. School was abuzz with talk that week because of us who were at BirmCFC and ‘cos of Richard and his family who were at BradCFC.

    As I type that I realise both grounds were BCFC – Birmingham City and Bradford City. And there are ironies such as the fact that it was a LEEDS team who came to Brum looking for violence. But I fail to see any agendas in this.

    You do put out fires on stuntman by covering their face, but you do that to anyone on fire if fully engulfed because you don’t want to be breathing in flames/heat and causing internal thermic injuries by basically cooking yourself from inside out.

    I’m as much for calling foul on fakery as much as you Tom, you know that well, and we have had many online and face to face chats on issues we share. But I’m a little averse to this particular one buddy simply because I do genuinely know people who were there.

    As for the other symbolisms in imagery though, agreed 🙂

    #8655

    xileffilex
    Participant

    There’s a Reddit thread about it here, linking to a better quality video – http://www.reddit.com/r/videos/comments/1lipoi/stadium_becomes_engulfed_in_flames_within_minutes/?sort=top
    All the comments are based on the official narrative which is not supported by any images.
    Link to video here:

    WHere did the burning man go to on the pitch, though? He’s surrounded by a crowd of beaters, then everybody seems to leave, including beaten man.
    One comment:

    …apparently that death was due to injuries sustained from people trying to ‘beat’ out the flames.

    Sun newspaper reproduced the next day:
    http://bradfordcityfire.files.wordpress.com/2013/03/the-sun-newspaper-13-05-85_sml.pdf

    ..those lost [not certified dead, I add] 70 people feared dead..like the policewoman who lost her husband and two sons.schoolgirl Moira Hodgson, 15, who served tea in the stand kiosk [born 12 May 1970, by inference]…86 year old Sam Firth, a former Bradford player…doctors are still struggling to identify many of the the 52 charred bodies recovered from the stand..and the 18 or so unaccounted for ar probably people literally burned to cinders..

    I think someone working in a crematorium might find this improbable.

    three policemen are among the 47 seriously injured still in hospital And 12 patients were still fightng for their lives last night

    Publican Kenneth Walker said “A policeman came down the aisle and said ‘I can see smoke, it’s nothing. We have sent for a fire extinguisher But just as a precaution, could you move to the back of the stand?

    This is insane.

    “People around me were amazed They had no idea the stand was ablaze”

    Police appealed for any fans who took pictures of the horror to turn over their film….they also quizzed spectators about what they saw..”

    Hmmmm.

    Life long Bradford City fan Peter Halroyd,41, said,”If you looked through the holes in the floorboards, you could see loads of litter built up over the years”

    cf Kings Cross escalator fire…

    Police have heard from eye-witnesses athat a number of flares had earlier been thrown in another part of the ground….Assistant Chief Constable John Domaille appealed for all fans who were in the block [G] to come forward…

    The Sun Says….the emergency services..They were magnificent. All of them.

    Standard “drill” line.

    More links at this site…
    http://bradfordcityfire.co.uk/category/news-reports/

    There were still many, many people trapped inside the ground.

    Dave Hustler was one of them, and was awarded a medal for bravery for his actions that day.

    “I got to the corner of the stand and heard a voice – a man lying against the wall was on fire. I picked him up and threw him over the wall and then managed to dive over,” he said.

    “By this point I was throwing my clothes off as they were burning into my body. He was a 17-year-old boy who had lost his crutches. I was the last person to make it over the wall.”

    http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/8648794.stm

    Professor David Sharpe had been a consultant plastic surgeon for six months when he had to deal with what, at the time, was the worst burns disaster in British history.

    As dozens of victims began arriving, he realised he had to go back to Valley Parade to try and work out how he might begin to treat them.

    “It was absolutely dreadful, a bit like something out of Dante’s inferno – the wreck of a stand smoking and smouldering, police officers looking for body parts. It was utterly gruesome.”

    He saw 258 people who needed treatment in the weeks afterwards and was eventually awarded an OBE in recognition of the pioneering work he carried out, which has improved treatment of burns around the world.

    [May 1 2010]

    You’re right, Tom – no mention of “burning man” anywhere

    Official version from the FB:

    The first call to this incident was received by the fire brigade from police control, the time being logged at 15.43. An initial attendance of three pumping appliances and a turntable ladder was immediately despatched. The first appliance arrived at 15.47. The officer in charge was confronted by the sight of the 70 year old main stand fully engulfed in flames and severely smoke logged. He immediately made pumps 5 as he arrived, then two minutes later at 15.49 he made pumps 8.

    So many people were burned that a message was sent requesting “as many ambulances as possible” followed at 16.22 with make pumps 12. Six jets were used bringing the fire under control and to save the grounds offices, changing rooms and club. The stop message was sent at 20.06, at which time 40 supporters were known to have died and over 200 others taken to hospital. The toll was to rise to 56, the eldest of which was 86 and the youngest 11.

    http://www.fireservice.co.uk/history/bradford-fire

    #8656
    Tom Dalpra
    Tom Dalpra
    Participant

    Hi Jay,

    So you ‘do genuinely know people who were there’ ? The ten year old Richard and his Dad or family? Are you still in contact?
    What did they see I wonder?

    From weirdipedia –Those who escaped were taken out of the ground to neighbouring homes and a pub, where a television screened World of Sport, which had live pictures from the ground. They queued there for a telephone to ring their families

    Think about it. There was a phone in the pub. No mobiles in those days.
    People queued there with a ( big, no doubt ) television screen. I can just see it. By the time they told their family what happened, they’d seen it on television ten times. Brilliant! Anyone that saw nothing could legitimately say they were there and it was terrible etc etc, but they really saw nothing.
    They only actually saw anything of the ‘horror’, on the television.

    Media fakery. It’s a classic.

    You were ten years old and you had your own personal football trauma that day in Birmingham when a wall fell on a boy? Well…minor story in big city related to football there. It’s not beyond the realms that it’s a mini sympathy psyop. Part of a coordinated, media programme for the day. That’s normal practice, I think. That sort of thing.
    Did you see this wall fall on the boy? Or did you hear about it and see the aftermath? Whatever, while being a potentially interesting tidbit ( def worth looking at) in support of the Bradford hoax, it certainly doesn’t prove that Bradford wasn’t a hoax!

    I was shocked a bit by the Bradford fire . It’s been sad to think of it over the years. xilef put up the youtube and I forced myself to watch it. I found it harrowing again. I was only looking at it to study crowd movement regarding Hillsborough. The Bradford footage though, immediately somehow didn’t add up. I kept watching. Ten times I must have watched it, at least and it was still harrowing. I had to check myself that I was only doing it in the course of actually trying to get somewhere better.

    I thought about it and went back and now and I think it’s funny. It’s a televised, controlled, situation a hoax sold with media fakery and a few actors.

    All with a classic John Helm/Alan Partridge commentary. ”There’s a man on fire walking on the pitch’. They think it’s all over! IT WASN’T!

    Those directions from the guys in grey are clear to me. The big guy with the jacket just took me there. They don’t make sense in any other scenario than it’s a team working a real-time, live theatre drill ( for want of a better term). What about the man in black? Do you like the way he falls over having been beckoned by his mate? I’d not looked at this video when I was saying earlier on the thread, that Hillsborough could have been done with pairs, or small teams of victim and carer actors from the crowd working together. I rest my case.

    I’m celebrating already that 27 weren’t found by Exit K and between turnstiles 6 and 9.

    DalTampra

    #8662

    xileffilex
    Participant

    There will always be people who are accidentally involved in drills and hoaxes who are not part of the script/main actors. Their job and instinct will be to run like hell. The fire did look fierce and unpredictable but my impression was that everybody seemed to be evacuating forward and out onto the pitch – the most sensible thing to do.
    Here is the list of 56 dead:
    http://bradfordcityfire.co.uk/2012/09/20/the-56-who-died-at-the-bradford-city-fire/

    The comments on all the posts on that FB site are mainly general – so far I can’t find anyone who mentions being related, apart from Firth, aged 86, quote in the son.
    Several bring up the Birmingham incident

    Here’s a story from 25 years later, the 3 members of the Greenwood famly:
    http://www.thetelegraphandargus.co.uk/news/8157762.Mum_tells_of_trauma_of_losing_husband_and_two_sons_in_City_fire_disaster/

    Hazel [Greenwood] did establish a group to help the multiply bereaved, but it was short-lived.

    She sees her daughter, Jessica, 33, regularly, and gets great pleasure from spending time with her nine-year-old grandaughter, Poppy.

    One more:

    Gerald, Robert Richard ORMONDROYD

    ORMONDROYD Gerald, Robert and Richard Died together, May 11, 1985. The happy hours we once enjoyed, How sweet their memory still, But losing you has left a space, This world can never fill. With all our love from Janet, Diane and Sarah. xxx

    http://www.thetelegraphandargus.co.uk/archive/2013/05/11/10413876.Gerald__Robert_Richard_ORMONDROYD/?ref=arc
    May 2013

    All the deaths seem to have been registered….

    I would think there would be a lot of reports of bad injuries, burns, scars, people who recovered… etc. What might a ratio of survival to deceased be? People were said to have been trapped behind locked turnstiles….where are the reports from the other side of the turnstiles? Screams? Photos from the road behind the stand?
    Radio Commentary here:

    “we’re taking a break… where were they commenting from? directly opposite? ”

    #8663
    Tom Dalpra
    Tom Dalpra
    Participant

    Ha! That radio excerpt sounds a bit like War of the Worlds.

    This about the plastic surgeon:

    Professor David Sharpe had been a consultant plastic surgeon for six months when he had to deal with what, at the time, was the worst burns disaster in British history.

    As dozens of victims began arriving, he realised he had to go back to Valley Parade to try and work out how he might begin to treat them. – ??? What?? Victims start arriving at the hospital and so he realises he’s got to pop down to the football ground where the victims have just come from?? He’s crafty. I bet he just wanted the excuse to get out. Have a cigarette or something. No mention of specific injuries at all to any human beings. He does, however, have a poetic slant on the way Valley Parade looked:

    “It was absolutely dreadful, a bit like something out of Dante’s inferno – the wreck of a stand smoking and smouldering, police officers looking for body parts. It was utterly gruesome.” Yeh thanks for that Doc, at least you can talk honestly about something looking gruesome, very descriptive but aren’t you supposed to be at the hospital?

    He ( in the end, apparently )saw 258 people who needed treatment in the weeks afterwards and was eventually awarded an OBE in recognition of the pioneering work he carried out, which has improved treatment of burns around the world.

    Super.

    http://bradfordcityfire.co.uk/2012/09/20/associated-press-13-may-1985-smoke-bombs-thrown-at-soccer-match-53-perish/#more-308

    Here’s a story that really pushes credibility. Told by Martin Fletcher, a guy who allegedly lost three of his family members at Bradford and then happened to be at Hillsborough as well! He’s writing a book about his experiences. Great. Not. We get an idea of the gripping narrative we might expect, in the article. He even gets a 9/11 reference in. This guy is a professional bullshit football witness.

    http://www.theguardian.com/football/2005/may/11/bradford

    bradford

    DalTampra

    #8687

    xileffilex
    Participant

    Funnily enough I was just reading about Mr Fletcher in another piece in the Guardian by a well respected writer [also by me], David Conn
    http://www.theguardian.com/football/david-conn-inside-sport-blog/2010/may/12/bradford-fire-david-conn
    12 May 2010

    The official inquiry by a high court judge, Mr Justice Popplewell, heard forensic evidence that the fire, at the final game of the season for a sparkling young side who had already won promotion from the old Third Division, was caused by the “accidental lighting of debris” under the stand. A discarded match, cigarette or pipe tobacco from a spectator smoking above was identified as the likely cause, but the accumulation of rubbish itself became a symbol of football’s widespread mismanagement.

    The police officer responsible for searching the debris of the burnt-out stand told Popplewell he found litter which had been there for years, including a 1968 copy of the local newspaper, the Telegraph and Argus.

    So,56 people are burnt to a cinder yet newspapers survive to be read. I am getting that 9/11 passport feeling already.

    The inquest into the deaths, in July 1985, relied on the same evidence presented to Popplewell. The coroner, James Turnbull, advised the jury that a verdict of misadventure, not accidental death, would mean the fire could have been foreseen and action taken to avoid it.

    “It crossed my mind to consider manslaughter,”…..

    After the misadventure verdict, test cases were brought against the club and council for negligence, by David Britton, a police sergeant injured working heroically to save spectators’ lives, and by Susan Fletcher, who lost her husband John, 11-year-old son Andrew, John’s brother Peter and his father Edmond in the fire. On 23 February 1987 Sir Joseph Cantley found the club and the county council, by then abolished, respectively two-thirds and one-third responsible.

    Martin Fletcher, Susan’s other son, was 12 when he lost his father, brother, uncle and grandfather to the Bradford fire, but survived himself. Now a chartered accountant, with an MA from Warwick University and postgraduate diploma in law, he has extensively studied the processes which followed the fire, and its surrounding circumstances.

    “The club at the time took no actual responsibility for its actions and nobody has ever really been held accountable for the level of negligence which took place,” he argues now. “It was appalling that public money was given to the club while it was still owned by the same shareholders under whose direction the fire had happened…….The only reason I feel my family did not die in vain is the pioneering research work for victims by Bradford University’s plastic surgery and burns research unit, which continues to this day.”

    It would be interesting to research old newspapers from 1985 to read about the injured, the burns injuries and the emergence of the 56 names.

    Most of the recent discussion is second hand, influence by news reports,rather than first hand witnessing. An interesting comment here:

    jonrover:
    I regard myself very fortunate I wasn’t in that fire on that fateful 11th May 1985 as my old man left it too late to get some tickets. My school pals and twin brothers Richard and Robert Ormondroyd and their father perished in the fire, and I still sometimes think that it could easily have been me and my old man.

    The thing that really upsets a lot of Bradfordians is the fact Stafford Higginbottom the Chairman, wasn’t charged with the death of those 56 people. Many still believe it was a timed device that started the fire but went off too early, so they could redevelop the ground with the insurance money.

    idler

    I live in Bradford and know lots of City fans but have never heard that story (timed device) before. I’ll ask my mate while I’m out for a pint,he’s barely missed a game home or away in years.
    The stand was going to be demolished at the end of that season so I don’t see a link. More than one of Stafford Hegginbotham’s businesses allegedly had problems with fire, that probably led a lot of people putting 2 and 2 together. The other thing is someone supposedly told a policeman in the stand there was a fire underneath but was told to sit down.
    Later some crisp packets were found that survived the fire and were years old, showing how rubbish had slipped under and built up.

    One of those who died had been at our house on the Wdnesday giving us a quote for double glazing. He was telling us how is life was improving as after his divorce he’d met a nice young lady. He was one of those trapped near the locked door at the back of the stand,only identified by his car keys.

    and another interesting one there:

    Sandy Lane

    Slightly off topic, and not to diminish this thread, but I live in NY, and my company lost 9 people in 9/11 and every so often I’ll talk to some of the people who were there and also other friends who worked in the towers, and their thoughts and feelings are similar. Unsurprisingly, a lot of them are just not the same any more.

    #8690

    xileffilex
    Participant

    Had to post this….I was looking for any mention of McPhersons without the legalistic sounding “Gordon Stuart McPherson”, certainly not what his mates would have called him:

    And here, 25th anniversary as usual,
    http://www.royston-crow.co.uk/news/royston_man_s_memories_of_fire_disaster_1_303059

    A ROYSTON man who lost his sister and brother-in-law in the Bradford stadium fire has made an emotional journey to attend a memorial service.

    Robert Winspeare of Weston Avenue, Royston, travelled north to Bradford on Tuesday to take part in a ceremony which marked the 25th anniversary of the disaster, in which 56 people, including Mr Winspeare’s sister Irene McPherson, and her husband Gordon, died.

    Mr Winspeare said: “Irene didn’t even like football, and neither did Gordon. They weren’t fans, and as far as I know that was the only match she had ever been to.

    “Because Bradford had just won the title they were giving away a lot of free tickets, and Irene and Gordon received two.

    “They thought it was an opportunity not to be missed to celebrate with the fans. Unfortunately they were in the wrong place at the wrong time.”

    As the pair weren’t football fans, Mr Winspeare wasn’t initially aware that they were involved in the fire.

    How many other people in block G were not football fans? Were they there? How were they identified? I am astonished.

    Note: a boy who died also had the unusal name of Winspear[e]

    #8691

    theprice1
    Participant

    The Hillsborough tragedy was an FA cup semi final. It was being broadcast live on the TV. You could see the crush happening, Im sure video and photos of the crush happening would be available somewhere. People were being carried onto the pitch dead, It was absolute carnage and there was also about 30,000 people or more inside the stadium. Fans were always trying to get onto the pitch, it took a few minutes to realise that something serious was happening and not just a bit of crowd trouble, which was common. The inquests have just been reopened after 25 years and i think that it is accepted that the police opened gates just before kick off and the surge of people onto the terraces was just to much. I think the man who was in charge that day was doing his first football match and thacther was prime minister, so i certainly would not rule out the crush being engineered to bring about the end of the terraces. I just can not see how it could possibly be a hoax. If it was, and I don’t believe for a second that it was, then the crisis actors who take part in these hoaxes should look to the families and friends who have given many very emotional interviews and the many people who where in the stadium (neil fitzmaurice on the footballers football show to name one) that have since given interviews as there lawrence olivier.

    #8692
    Tom Dalpra
    Tom Dalpra
    Participant

    I think I should say at this point, I think the Bradford fire was a nightmare, whatever it was. Re-reading as to how I now find the footage hilarious, I should qualify that by saying that, any hilarity is born from a sense of relief in me, that this horrible ‘accident’ wasn’t as bad as they said it was.

    The fire clearly spread quickly and people were caught and injured whilst escaping in panic. The heat was intense, it was highly dangerous and there were numerous genuine injuries. It was a nightmare.

    I hope everyone got out of the stand. I hope the stories of flaming tarpaulins falling on people are false. I hope that people really weren’t stuck (and burnt to a cinder) behind the stadium.

    I hope no-one died – but I do know that people were genuinely injured and it was horrible. It is credible to me that some real people did tragically die there.

    —————————————-
    What seems possible to me now, is that it was a set up, but that it got slightly out of hand. The fire may have been set and fueled to run down the entire roof but
    an unusual wind that day, helped speed it up.

    It could have been a psy-op that went a bit wrong.

    I can imagine some of the actors afterwards:- ‘Jeez Captain – I didn’t realise it was going to be intense as that’.

    —————————————-

    It was a real event of some sort. There was a fire in the stand. People did panic and get injured.
    If it was staged, then the addition of a few actors on top of this already very real situation, seals the deal. It’s completely credible.

    Completely credible, but messy. Again IF it was a psy-op
    I hope that fire (although a useful land-clearer) isn’t used in future staged events where the public are so closely involved.

    DalTampra

    #8693
    Tom Dalpra
    Tom Dalpra
    Participant

    Hi theprice1,

    I was very cautious in opening up Hillsborough to investigation. I can understand your doubt.

    The game wasn’t being broadcast live on television.
    It was a 3 o’clock kick off and in those days, live football was rarely shown. We got the cup final live and a few internationals and European games and that’s all, back then.

    However, the tv cameras were there for Match of the Day highlights and
    there was plenty of footage and photographs -essential ingredients for a psy-op of this nature (if it was one), I’m sure you’d agree.

    Like Bradford, there were many people there who could report a very real thing. In the case of Hillsborough, there was a real crush.

    I continue to look at these things with an open mind.

    How I see Hillsborough would be played, if it was a psy-op, is that there was an engineered crush and there were actors in the crowd.
    Screaming and panic in the crowd could be enhanced and then when people started being carried out onto the pitch, the ‘reality’ of the situation became clear.

    This would then be backed up by the television and newspaper reports and it’s job done.
    This piece of history is written. Anyone that was there can say they witnessed it. But what did they really witness?

    With what we now know, I don’t think it’s unreasonable at all, to consider that this may have been an operation complete with actors and fake victims.

    The Steven Gerrard connection I find quite interesting. He was a 9 year old at the time and he is said to have lost his cousin in the crush. The youngest victim of the disaster.
    I suggest some sort of deal may have been done.
    It’s the 25th anniversary this year and Liverpool are sitting pretty at the top of the league. Gerrard the captain. He’s scored 11 penalties this season.

    That Gerrard is an ‘agent’ and his family ‘did a deal’, is just my speculation, but what I will say, with complete certainty, is that football is completely controlled, so whatever happens on the pitch, ‘they’ have planned it, for years.

    With what we now know, is it such a stretch to think that this could have been pulled-off?

    I shall be looking for clues here, today.

    DalTampra

    #8694

    theprice1
    Participant

    It was an FA cup semi final and it was being broadcast live. Before the premier league and sky TV, there was plenty of matches broadcast live. The big match was on most sundays with live football. League matches are not allowed to be broadcast at 3pm on a saturday (apparently it stops people attending the match). Only FA cup matches are allowed to be broadcast at 3pm on a saturday. This was the FA cup semi final between Liverpool and Notts forest, held at a neutral ground (Hillsborough).

    I keep an open mind about all things and I can see how people might think it was a hoax. I have no problem believing it was engineered, I have no problem believing that Liverpool have been given some help to win the league. It certainly draws the people of liverpools focus from the inquest which is happening now, but in my opinion I can’t see any possibility of it being a hoax.

    #8695

    xileffilex
    Participant

    Tom – thanks for the Bradford diversion and your analysis. What you wrote above re:Hillsborough is spot on:

    Anyone that was there can say they witnessed it. But what did they really witness?

    The real business and witnessing goes on among the emergencey services, pathologists, doctors and coroners and government. Anyone who has deeply studied the Boston Marathon fake event will know how deeply involved all these equivalent US agencies were in that hoax. Aided by the collaborative MSM and their tame photographers anxious to make a buck with their staged photos to bolster the narratve.

    So, to finish on Bradford.
    All the deaths would have been registered straight after the inquest in July 1985. That means everybody would have been identified. Or was it a bulk inquest, as with 7/7?

    Since the fire spread throughout the stand, one would be interested to know the location of these deaths, where the alleged remains were found.[think those suspiciously detailed maps of the 7/7 bus seating arrangements….] The key moment to bring across the message of deaths is the “burning man” – who burns, then vanishes. Watching the grainy footage of the area of the stand which caught fire seems to indicate that that area was cleared as people made their way onto the pitch to escape the admittedly unpredictable event.

    What to believe? I have no idea.

    I would have to dig out contemporary hard copy newspaper reports to see if any deaths or injuries or names of the missing emerged quickly. And also surivors’ stories, disfigurements, skin grafts, that kind of thing.

    A couple of links – this one very recent, March 14 2014
    http://www.thetelegraphandargus.co.uk/news/11062795.Valley_Parade_honour_for_burns_unit_pioneer_surgeon/

    after the fire Prof Sharpe and his team began treating the wounded.
    They operated on about 25 people that first day, and 80 patients needed skin grafts that week.

    WHo were they?

    …that 2011 appeal, said Prof Sharpe, would allow the unit to continue for another five to ten years. It was kicked off by City’s co-director Mark Lawn and the then-manager Stuart McCall in August 2009, and was run by the club’s operations director David Baldwin.
    McCall’s dad, Andy, was injured in the fire.

    Sharpe, who rushed to the ground that day..
    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/3929974
    Treatment of burns casualties after fire at Bradford City football ground.
    Br Med J (Clin Res Ed). 1985 Oct 5;291(6500):945-8.
    Sharpe DT, Roberts AH, Barclay TL, Dickson WA, Settle JA, Crockett DJ, Mossad MG.

    On 11 May 1985 the main stand of Bradford City Football Club caught fire. Within four minutes the stand was alight from end to end. Fifty three people were burnt to death and about 250 injured; 83 required admission to hospital, and 55 of these were treated by primary excision of their burns and skin grafting. In such disasters the help of staff from other hospitals and areas is essential. Patients should be assessed to see whether they have burns that will ultimately be fatal; if they have they should not be sent to regional burns units, where they would take up beds that could be used for patients with treatable burns. All districts should ensure that their plans for accidents in which burns injuries predominate are adequate.

    Article with images here:
    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1417209/

    The man on fire must have been known to Sharpe. Why isn’t this iconic [sorry to overuse the word] figure identified anywhere?

    #8696
    Tom Dalpra
    Tom Dalpra
    Participant

    On, the 96, here’s the subliminal again, that I found, that made me start wondering.

    Go to :43 seconds and pause.
    Click as quickly as you can pausing frame-by-frame.

    We see a 9 in the bottom corner between 43 and 44 seconds and then (after a frame of three Arsenal players) a 6
    on a Newcastle shirt. This is followed by a frame of Liverpool fans and flags. (it is Liverpool, I found the image elsewhere to prove it). I didn’t recognise this reference to the 96, until the actual day of the 25th anniversary.

    I think it’s fairly clearly there and that the 9 and the 6 are clearly referencing the Hillsborough dead.

    Does that prove Hillsborough was a psy-op? No, but it does show that those in control are putting the ’96 dead’ in our minds, whether we know it or not.

    DalTampra

    #8697
    Tom Dalpra
    Tom Dalpra
    Participant

    To theprice1,

    It’s academic, but Ireland had it live and the UK didn’t, from what I can tell.

    It makes little difference to anything I’m saying, but my statement that it
    ‘wasn’t shown live’ is incorrect in that it was shown live, certainly in Ireland, no-doubt elsewhere.

    It wasn’t shown live in the UK, I don’t think. Unless I’m told otherwise.
    These details are provable.

    As a football fan growing up in England who was 22 at the time of Hillsborough, I have a good grasp of how much live football we were shown.

    There wasn’t very much, at that time, as I said, compared to today. I don’t think anyone will argue with that.

    As I say, it’s a small point, but relevant and I stand corrected in that it was shown live, albeit in other countries.

    DalTampra

    #8698
    Tom Dalpra
    Tom Dalpra
    Participant

    To xilef,

    Yes, it’s all your fault! Posting that Bradford clip.

    Quite a football (soccer) thread for a Canadian website! I hope some people have found some interest in it.

    Why not, I say? We might as well get all the British Football disasters out and review them.

    Speaking of which,
    there was that figure of 66 dead from Ibrox…

    DalTampra

    #8700

    theprice1
    Participant

    Live sport on a Saturday in them days was shown through Grandstand. The TV guide would say Grandstand, but they would show whatever the big sporting event of the day was. That day the big sporting event was the FA cup semi final, I was in front of the TV watching. There are more live football matches on TV these days but only on subscription TV, there is a lot less on none subscription TV.

    #8704
    Tom Dalpra
    Tom Dalpra
    Participant

    Dear theprice1,

    This link should clear it up.
    http://forums.digitalspy.co.uk/showthread.php?t=1023963

    As I said, it’s actually not that relevant (the game was shown live elsewhere)
    but what it does show is how people’s memories aren’t perfect regarding things they thought they watched live on television 25 years ago.

    The fact they’ve shown just about every semi-final since, live, makes your belief that this one was shown live too, quite understandable.

    The truth is, in England, it wasn’t.

    DalTampra

    #8711

    theprice1
    Participant

    Your offering a poster on digital spy as proof.
    They can think what they like over at digital spy, I watched live on the TV.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grandstand_(TV_series)

    near the bottom of page.

    Historic, noteworthy or bizarre live events broadcast

    The Hillsborough football ground disaster on 15 April 1989.

    #8712
    Tom Dalpra
    Tom Dalpra
    Participant

    Oh yes, they went to it live alright – after the game had been stopped. I remember it very clearly too. I was working for Ladbrokes in High Street, Soham, Cambridgeshire that Saturday afternoon.

    The game wasn’t shown live in England. The aftermath was.
    All this shows is how you can read something factual from Wiki and come to a false conclusion.

    I don’t care, if it was live or not. It really doesn’t make much difference , as I see it..

    I wish the match was shown live in England, then I could just say ‘fair play’ and we could move on.

    But it wasn’t.

    DalTampra

    #8713

    theprice1
    Participant

    The match was stopped 6 minutes into the game, while the crush was going on. It was not the aftermath. So the disaster was in progress while it was live on TV and I would still argue that the majority of the match (6 mins) had been live, but I cant prove it so we will leave it there. I only looked up wiki when you offered a poster from Digital Spy as the gospel.

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