Fake Aviation Crashes and other Helihoaxes

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This topic contains 58 replies, has 6 voices, and was last updated by  xileffilex 2 weeks, 6 days ago.

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  • #422064

    xileffilex
    Participant

    It’s good to have a general slot for these all-too-prevalent multi-purpose media events.
    One which Ab started, a 2014 Seattle “crash”, is here, in diminshed form, though the comments still exist:
    http://fakeologist.com/2014/03/21/fake-chopper-crash/

    The usual give-away is the vanishing helicopter, diminishing invariably to a tiny pile of charred scrap and the invariably surviving serial number or other identfying piece of uncharred fuselage.

    This one caught my eye from 1982, involving allegedly a real life incident on the film set of Twilight Zone – The Movie directed by John Landis . Steven Spielberg was another co-director

    http://www.history.com/this-day-in-history/actor-and-two-children-killed-on-twilight-zone-set
    Decapitation of an ageing actor and one of two child actors by a helicopter, allgedly during shooting of a scene. The above footage is apparently that which was shown to the jury. Of course, the footage shows nothing of the sort.

    The accident led to legal action against the filmmakers which lasted nearly a decade,** and changed the regulations involving children working on movie sets at night and during special effects-heavy scenes.

    ** good work if you can get it
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vic_Morrow

    By way of contrast here is a recent 2014 “Helicopter crash” in the UK – a low budget affair with no Hollywood directors or actors.
    http://www.itv.com/news/story/2014-09-16/two-dead-after-helicopter-crashes-off-east-yorkshire-coast/
    I think nothing happened at all. Another drill.

    It occurred not a million miles from the 1983 Humber river estuary incident when a helicopter allegedly carrying a Yorkshire TV film crew decapitated the mast of a DDR-registered coaster resulting in the death of the film crew and the miraculous survival of the pilot and the writing off of a very new helicopter:
    http://www.caa.co.uk/docs/HistoricalMaterial/G-MAHO.pdf

    Add your fake heli-crashes below….

    #423489
    rgos
    rgos
    Participant

    Add your fake heli-crashes below….

    Good idea, xilef. What are your thoughts, book form or encyclopedia?

    http://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/609376/Shoreham-air-crash-disaster-pilot-11-people-killed-Andy-Hill


    11 killed

    • This reply was modified 1 year, 10 months ago by rgos rgos.
    #423717

    xileffilex
    Participant

    He’s industructable – like Keith Richards

    #431135

    xileffilex
    Participant

    Before we get onto the meat and gravy of these faked crashes, I wanted to flag up the sub-genre of the stunt plane death:


    witnesess, air pockets, no sign of anyone falling.

    Looks very much like a 9/11 falling man dummy. The usual blurring and focussing out, low quality the norm. Nobody is on the wing as far as I can see…

    Cue the NTSB.

    #438380

    xileffilex
    Participant

    This double event in the same village of Old Catton near Norwich just jumps off the page from the last few months of the second world war. Many of the events reported are just not what they seem.

    http://www.oldcatton.com/archive/featured_articles/tommy_thumper.pdf

    http://www.oldcatton.com/archive/featured_articles/dogs_life.pdf

    January 22 and February 13. [what else happened on February 13? Oh yes, the fire bombing of Dresden….]

    Both of them training missions
    1. Tommy Thumper

    Not long after take off, at about
    13:45, Captain McArthur radioed the tower
    at Rackheath stating that he had engine problems. The tower
    instructed McArthur to return to the airfield. Number 1 propeller
    appeared to be feathered and there were bursts of smoke coming from the number 2 engine. Things must have become serious as McArthur radioed the tower at the nearer Horsham St Faith airfield. He was instructed to circle until another aircraft was landed. Then, at about 13:56, flying at a height of about 400 feet, the aircraft appeared to stall, did a complete wing over, and spun into the ground. It crashed in the grounds of Catton Hall, near Church Street in Old Catton.
    All nine crew members died. An official investigation was carried out by the USAAF, but because the aircraft was completely destroyed
    and none of the crew survived, no reason was ever given for the crash.

    Does that make sense? The plane is on fire and they are told to circle..
    Not to me it doesn’t.

    Interestingly, the memorial plaque in Church Street mentions 20 valuable lives lost as a result of this and the “A Dog’s Life” crash
    . But from the official crash reports, 18 crew men died, not 20. There were no civilian casualties as a result of these accidents.

    How convenient that no names are listed, again unusually, on the memorial.

    source: http://www.airfieldinformationexchange.org/community/showthread.php?12285-OLD-CATTON-B-24-Liberator-Crash-Memorial
    which also has this useful photo of the second, Dog’s Life crash site:

    Yes, where indeed is the plane?

    On to incident #2 – another training flight with sand-filled 500 pound bombs

    Dreadful weather conditions in the early part of February 1945 saw many operational missions into Germany cancelled. This offered an opportunity for training flights.

    A few minutes after take off, Shannon radioed the control tower reporting engine problems and a feathered propeller. Lt. Shannon was cleared to land immediately. The aircraft, at about 700 feet, turned left heading north east back to the runway

    A “feathered propellor” also featured in the previous “crash”.

    At around 12:46, the left wing dropped completely and the aircraft began breaking up around the southern
    end of what is no
    w known as the Deer Park, finally crashing into a house on the corner of Church Street
    and Spixworth Road in Old Catton. A civilian lady living in the Church Stre
    et house suffered leg injuries.

    Nowadays, she would be photographed having CPR done and tourniquets applied. Who was she?
    Who was the witness for the history books? Gunner Rick Rokicki who was conveniently on leave that afternoon…

    We cycled like mad but before we could reach the wreckage a fire truck and other equipment were already there. A guard group prevented anyone getting close. One of the crew got out and walked towards the ambulance. Everyone tried to get to him and tell him to lie down but he kept coming. He died from delayed shock before they could get him to the ambulance
    “.

    Eight killed outright, one walks, zombie like then drops down dead.
    There’s another photo of the damaged cottage on the pdf –

    There is more wreckage in this crash – also involving the same Horsham St Faith [now Norwich airport] aerodrome – january 13 1945
    http://www.invisibleworks.co.uk/hidden-history-lassie-come-home/

    We have the lucky escape theme – the alloted pilot has sinus trouble at altitude – have to laugh at that, perhaps he only flew close to the ground? Oh, another feathered engine.

    “all but two of the crew died as did two children Mary and Brian Kemp who were playing in the garden…Richard Kemp survived
    Only one crew member,Sergeant Norton A. Lawson, the crew’s tail gunner was the only survivor of the crash”

    So two survivors or one? Well the pilot with sinus trouble, Harold W Blanshan, obviously survived as well, but his alleged replacement 2nd Lieutenant Leo Hecht – his first mission [!]
    http://www.458bg.com/crewdiehl.htm

    the aircraft turned over and crashed upside down in the garden of No. 14 Spynke Road, Norwich.Three children were playing in that garden, and Richard Kemp, the sole survivor, recalls the tragedy: “My twin sister Mary and our cousin Brian were playing among the raspberry-canes when I looked up to see that the sky behind my house had turned into metal, all silver-grey with black holes in it and it was coming towards us.

    There follow more fanciful witness accounts…and a photo of the expected memorial, this time with names.

    Mr. Spurgeon was soaked from head to toe in petrol when he looked out of his garden shed to see what was going on; how Mrs. Courtney’s bedroom had been snatched off the corner of her house

    Earl Zimmerman, who was stationed at Hethel, had cycled over to Spynke Road that day to visit his future wife, June Courtney: “We were sitting round the fire at tea-time when we heard the plane coming over. Suddenly it happened – the sound of engines turning over at high r.p.m., a loud crash as the plane took off the top of our house, and a huge shadow passing by the window. I ran out of the back door and there was a lot of gas all over the place so I ran to all the neighbours telling them to put out all their fires.“The aircraft was such a tangled mess it was difficult to know where to look to find any survivors. About the only recognizable portion was a piece of the fuselage from the waist window to the tail. It was so mangled that I could not get inside, but some neighbours came running over and we eventually managed to get two boys out alive. We laid them out on the front lawn but one of them died. Some people from Horsham St Faith arrived and took the survivor away to hospital.

    a familiar theme in this story by sibling of the twins, Margaret:

    We had not gone to Sunday school that day as my little sister had been sick in the night.
    Brian Jones (pictured at right), nine years old, was our cousin who died that day. Her recollection was that Mary was not injured but died from the concussion. We had always thought the navigator also survived, but I guess not. I do remember several years later we found a wedding ring in the garden and my mother returned it to the base.
    It is probably of no consolation to anyone now but whoever shut down the fuel switches in the last seconds pilot or co-pilot is all kinds of hero, had there been a fire with fuel and ammunition exploding amongst the close packed houses it would have been a bigger catastrophe than it was already

    So that prevented a fire?

    • This reply was modified 1 year, 10 months ago by  xileffilex.
    #438681
    psyopticon
    psyopticon
    Participant

    Interesting research, Felix.

    The second crash – of the B24 Liberator A Dog’s Life – at Old Catton, Norwich, England on 13 Feb 1945, has some curious imagery.

    The two images of the Old Catton ‘crash scene’, supposedly taken in 1945, look faked. With the second of those two black and white images possibly faked quite recently:

    The roof-line of the damaged dwelling just looks all wrong. The roof pitch is badly distorted. Is it supposed to have a fully-pitched roof? Or a part-pitched and part-flat roof over an extension on the left? And yet fully-pitched on the right? If so, why is there guttering for a pitched roof, afixed around a flat-roof?

    The front wall of the house also doesn’t line up properly; an anomaly which the cloud of dust obscures. As intended, maybe.

    All suggesting that the images of the ‘crash damage’ are composite fakes.

    It looks like the facade of a superficially damaged house wall, with broken windows, has been taken from somewhere else. That image then layered, or pasted on top of the building that still stands today on the corner of Spixworth Road and Church Street, Old Catton.

    The accident debris at the front of the photo also looks dodgy, and the men in the crash scene don’t seem to gel together, nor fit into the scene properly.

    But it all helps to create the illusion of a major aircraft accident.

    It’s also odd that in the crash photos there are no windows on the right-hand side of the damaged house. We should see two windows; one up, and one down. Where are they? Compare the damage photos with modern images from Google StreetView, etc. Did they supposedly ease in two new windows, when the dwelling was ‘repaired’?

    Except we find, from a close-up view with Google StreetView, that the window apertures and the brickwork in the house today look original and unrepaired. Despite claims to the contrary from the author of oldcatton.com. He claims that: “Today, it is easy to see the brickwork used to repair the damage to the house in this picture“. Really?

    Take a look at the ‘crash-damaged’ house as it stands today using Google StreetView: http://goo.gl/maps/gkPDTSEYRhK2

    No obvious signs of repaired brickwork. The facade all looks old and original; laid with irregular or handcut bricks, including for the window sills and lintels.

    The “17th century” house to the right is famous for being the home of Anna Sewell, author of Black Beauty. In the 1950s (1940s too?) it was known as Beechwood. And was home to the Burton family.

    Back then, perhaps the Burtons owned the crash-damaged dwelling next-door, too? All the dwellings on that corner – either side of Beechwood house, appear to have been renovated at the same time; with the crash-damaged dwelling turned into two separate homes – Holly Cottage and Woodstock. Suggesting common ownership of them all at one time.

    Eldest son of the Burtons of Beechwood, a Mr Gilbert George Devereux Burton, was one of four longstanding directors of nearby Norwich St Faith’s Crematorium; built 1935.

    The crematorium has its own WWII history; a plaque in the chapel honours 30 Norfolk servicemen who lost their lives in battle and were cremated there. Although none from the nearby Liberator crash, it seems.

    #439141

    xileffilex
    Participant

    Good point about the line of the building, Psyopticon.It is impossible to reconcile it with the current street view, which must mirror the historical layout of lane and house. I wonder if there are any old postcards still existing showing this tranquil corner? The broken windows look very fake. It reminds me of the photo of the Crockham Hill children’s home.
    In fact both of the images, are suspicious – the blank corner wall on the old- photo-effect image looks photoshopped, despite the post war group apparently posing one the right of Spixworth Road to give it that 1945 feel…

    #440747

    xileffilex
    Participant

    Psyopticon dropped a fascinating link into the chat where this post was to be found
    http://jimcannotfixthis.blogspot.co.uk/2015/04/jimmy-savile-munich-air-disaster.html
    I had flagged up my suspicions about the Munich crash narrative merely from inspecting the images of damage to the plane and the alleged hospital photos of some of the survivors which I placed on the Tom and Mojo chat post discussion.


    The above photo seemed to be a red flag on the above blog.

    Thus it is that we can be sure that between 1956 and 1959 Jimmy [Savile] was at the peak of his local celebrity in Manchester, but with no especial national profile

    The blogger makes an astonishing connection.

    The connection had never occurred to me, but it was obvious and hiding in plain sight all the time. Once I had done the research and realized Jimmy was based in Manchester in 1958, it became very obvious what it was that might be special between Bobby and Jimmy. How special, I could not have imagined until I found this book.

    Manchester’s Finest: How the Munich air disaster broke the heart of a great city Paperback – 12 Feb 2009 by David Hall

    The writer copies the paragraph from the book describing Jimmy Savile being the manager of the Plaza Ballroom in Manchester on February 6 1958 which was hosting the manchester Press Ball that very night and when news of the crash arrived, he closed the ballroom before the event.
    The blogger writes:

    If anyone knows the evidenced truth of the reason for that moment, please feel free to let me know in my comments.

    Well, I am not going to comment there, but the writer can perhaps take time to analysed the images, which I ought to copy on this thread.

    Manchester was the second city to London for news – think the Manchester Guardian. Eight journalists from Manchester were said to have died in Munich.
    The final word from the blogger:

    What possible “power” could the local Dance Hall Manager have over them?
    The 2012 Savile story is completely without foundation.

    Bobby Charlton:

    Team-mate Albert Scanlon

    with Ray Wood

    Scanlon on his own

    Dennis Viollet

    manager Matt Busby in ebola style tent

    I’ll leave the crash imagery until the next time.

    #441194
    psyopticon
    psyopticon
    Participant

    Great discovery, Felix, uncovering the link between Savile and the Munich Air Disaster; via his management of the Plaza Ballroom on Oxford Street, Manchester.

    The Plaza being the venue on the night of the Crash for the annual Manchester Press Ball. The Manchester press corp reportedly suffering 30% of all the losses in the Munich disaster.

    The Ball doesn’t appear to have been advertised at the time. Perhaps not surprising given the closed-shop nature of the Press and it being an invite-only event. However, the rescheduled Ball was advertised in the Manchester Guardian, with it apparently taking place a month later at the Locarno Ballroom in Sale:

    What relevance that Press Ball to the Munich Crash? Was the Ballroom like a psyop “nerve centre” for the whole operation? With Jimmy and colleagues officially putting up a “cancelled” sign, before locking the doors to tune in as the news coverage unfolded? Was the Ballroom similar to the role of control-centre that some attribute to WTC7 in the 9/11 hoax?

    As for Savile, I’ve often wondered about his knowledge of various psyops. Through his long-standing role as mentor at Broadmoor Special Hospital, home to Britain’s criminally insane. Did that work at Broadmoor expose him to some of the more grisly hoaxes of the day?

    Savile discusses and defends his work at Broadmoor in this 1988 interview; facing strangely hostile questioning over it: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vBZ8M0G0FRQ#t=11m30s Demonstrating surprising compassion, he’s also assiduously avoids mention of the most notorious Broadmoor patients.

    Over five decades, Savile developed an intimate relationship with the media; boasting press contacts throughout the country. A mutual relationship perhaps galvanised initially by that Munich incident, all those years before? Was Jimmy already a ‘safe pair of hands’, in the eyes of the media; already ‘onboard’ at the time of Munich?

    In Louis Theroux’s 2000 interview of Savile – which seemingly set the stage for his posthumous ruination – we see Jimmy breaking his ankle while out jogging in Glencoe. But rather than getting the wretched thing plastered-up ASAP, Savile is more concerned with securing the best press coverage first! See: 35m20s in http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x1ziq8u_wlm-s01e01-jimmy-savile_news A showman, aka media whore, to the end.

    Perhaps the Press came to think that without its help, Jimmy would have been nothing, and therefore felt it still owned him – even after his death? Eventually destroying his reputation in a posthumous psyop of his own? Live by the sword, you must die by it, too?

    #441850

    xileffilex
    Participant

    I was wondering if that unexpected surplus ballroom food distributed in Didsbury might have led to an outbreak of Salmonella poisoning but since the crash occurred around 3.pm GMT it was probably consumed the same evening. Phew!

    An amusing story jumps of the wiki page, a quote from a 2008 book by Jim White

    Meanwhile, in the cabin, goalkeeper Harry Gregg was regaining consciousness, thinking that he was dead.[41] He felt blood on his face and “didn’t dare put [his] hand up. [He] thought the top of [his] head had been taken off, like a hard boiled egg.

    Harry Gregg is an interesting subject…

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/football/2291113/Harry-Gregg-Remember-me-as-a-footballer.html

    07 Feb 2008
    “The silence on the aircraft was punctuated by a nervous cough, then a snigger. Johnny Berry shouted, ‘I don’t know what you are laughing at, we’re all going to get killed here’. Liam Whelan piped up, ‘Well, if this is the time, I’m ready’.”Gregg later related those prophetic words to Whelan’s family, who found comfort in them.
    “As I watched out of the window, the wheels began to lift off the ground. Then bang! There was a sudden crash and debris began bombarding me on all sides. One second it was light, the next dark.
    “There was no screaming, no sounds, only the terrible shearing of metal. Something cracked my skull like a hard-boiled egg. I was hit again at the front. The salty taste of blood was in my mouth. I was afraid to put my hands to my head. An eerie stillness replaced the chaos, punctuated only by the interminable sound of hissing. All around was darkness, as if it was frozen in time.”
    Gregg noticed light streaming from a gap in the fuselage which he climbed through on to the runway. He went back into the aircraft, remembering there was a baby on a seat, couldn’t find her, heard a cry and pulled her from the debris, got out and handed her to George Rodgers, the flight’s radio officer.
    On going back for the second time, he found the baby’s pregnant mother, Vera Lukic. Sitting on his backside, he pushed her towards the gap with his feet and she too was taken from the aircraft, suffering from a fractured skull and broken legs.
    Gregg, searching for Jackie Blanchflower, stumbled across Bobby Charlton and Dennis Viollett, and hauled them by their waistbands away from the smouldering wreckage. He then found Matt Busby, crying ‘My legs, my legs’, lying between the wreckage and the unoccupied house which the plane had crashed into. Then, at last, he discovered Blanchflower, suffering from a severe arm gash to which he applied a tourniquet.

    Hmm, some quite modern themes in there. What do we notice? He only talks about surviving players. There is no mention of any who are said to have died. We also have the hero theme, the baby and a pregnant mother. It could be from 2001. The two separate hard-boiled egg quotes need checking.

    honorary degrfee july 1 2008

    http://news.ulster.ac.uk/releases/2008/3864.html

    video:
    http://natgeotv.com/uk/air-crash-investigation/videos/munich-air-crash
    crash still at 0.08, with brief clips of Harry at 0:17 and 0.36

    all his video s have been removed from Nat Geographic.

    • This reply was modified 1 year, 10 months ago by  xileffilex.
    #441853

    xileffilex
    Participant

    There are strangely no photos of Gregg in a hospital bed.
    Another version of his story appears here
    http://backpagefootball.com/harry-gregg-hero-of-the-munich-air-disaster/14023/

    On take off Thain opted against having the Elizabethan’s wings brushed free of snow and the plane began it’s trek to the runway. Gregg began to get really scared when he noticed how quiet the plane had become.

    “We set off once again and I remember looking out of the window and seeing a tree and a house passing by; and suddenly everything went black all of a sudden and sparks began to fly. I was hit hard on the back of my head and I thought the top of my skull had been cut off.

    “The plane went on it’s side, sort of upside down. There was no crying. There was just silence and blackness..

    Peter Howard, the Daily Mail photographer, was with Albert keeping him company. I ran round to the back of the plane and I found Bobby Charlton and Denis Viollet lying still. I thought they were dead and I dragged their bodies, like rag dolls, into the seats which had been thrown about twenty yards from the plane. I started calling out for Jackie.

    “As I searched for him, I saw the tail end of the plane ablaze with flames. I found Matt Busby, who was conscious, but holding his chest in pain, crying out “my legs, my legs. I propped him up and found Blanchie crying, with Roger Byrne lying across him dead.

    “Jackie’s arm was in a bad way and bleeding badly, so I tied a tourniquet on it with my tie. I pulled it so hard that my tie snapped in half but I managed to tie his arm with what was left.

    “Suddenly a man in a long trench coat arrived carrying a syringe.

    “I turned around and got the shock of my life for there was Denis and Bobby standing, just watching the fire.

    The death of Roger Byrne effected Harry Gregg profoundly, as roommates and friends Gregg felt a terrible guilt for not closing Roger’s eyes when he went to assist Jackie Blanchflower. Suffering from classic survivors guilt for over 40 years, Gregg refused to meet any of his perished friends’ families….

    Harry Gregg is a real hero….

    I can’t find any information about the head injuries suffered by Gregg, bus this item caught my eye:

    Albert Scanlon (winger) was 22. A player of great potential who suffered terrible head injuries at Munich. Recovered and played well for several years, scoring 16 league goals the season after the crash.

    http://www.thebusbybabes.com/victims/victims.htm
    Amazing

    Hmmmmm indeed.

    #442189

    xileffilex
    Participant

    The Aircrew warrant examination, certainly the two in the cockpit, one of whom apparently died as did a steward.
    Survivors were
    James Thain Captain
    Rosemary Cheverton Stewardess
    Margaret Bellis Stewardess
    George (Bill) Rodgers Radio officer

    Dead were
    Capt Kenneth Rayment Co-Pilot
    Tom Cable Steward

    The career of Rayment is laid out in great detail here:
    http://forum.12oclockhigh.net/archive/index.php?t-6298.html

    relevant extracts:

    Kenneth Gordon Rayment RAF No. 126970 (NCO); 108000 (Officer)
    b. 11 March 1921 at Wanstead, Essex
    1937 – joined Merchant Navy
    //////////
    Seconded to BOAC flying Lodestars in November 1944 until end 1945
    1946 – transferred to BEA on its foundation flying Oxfords, then Dakotas until 1947, then Vikings.
    March 1953 began flying Ambassadors
    Flew Viscounts as a Senior Captain
    On 6 February 1958 flew as second pilot on a special charter flight carrying the Manchester United football team home from Munich which crashed at Munich Airport in a snowstorm on take-off. Rayment was hospitalised with a broken leg and severe head and internal injuries. His leg was subsequently amputated but he died on 15 March without regaining conciousness.

    So a very very experinced pilot who had benefited from the war. One wonders why he was co-pilot on this charter flight.

    I have no idea how the writer came by all this.
    His wife Edith remarried only in 1990 and was again widowed in 2008 but seems to be still alive in Surrey. In 1958, the address of Rayment was given as The Sayers, Adversane, Billingshurst, Sussex.

    There is some contemporary footage in this video, showing the house at 1:06 which seems to have suffered the same fate as some of the properties alleged to have been hit by V2 rockets…

    Steve Rayment [Stephen G Rayment, b 1948] – son of co-pilot Kenneth Rayment who lost his fight for life six weeks after the crash – will be presented with part of the wreckage by Stockport author Steve Morrin.

    http://www.manchestereveningnews.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/pilots-daughter-pays-tribute-942308
    January 12 2013

    The other pilot who survived was James Thain.
    https://www.thegazette.co.uk/London/issue/39669/supplement/5392


    source@ http://www.sportskeeda.com/football/the-1958-munich-air-disaster-the-untold-story-of-capt-james-thain

    Retiring to his poultry farm in southern England, Thain suffered a fatal heart attack in August 1975 at the age of 53
    https://www.flightglobal.com/pdfarchive/view/1975/1975%20-%201496.html
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/James_Thain

    There is no probaterecord! [born 1921 died 1975 [3] Bracknell]
    But yet another hero emerges…
    2007 –
    Stephen R Morrin

    But Morrin, in a new book on the crash – The Munich Air Disaster – points out that Captain Thain, rather than being the villain of the tragedy, was a hero, attempting to save passengers from the wrecked aircraft. It was only after a long fight that he was actually able to clear his name. Sadly, the struggle resulted in his untimely death from a heart attack in 1975, at the age of 54.
    http://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/life/how-disgraced-united-pilot-saved-lives-28067795.html
    During his two years of research on the book, Morrin, gained access to Captain Thain’s private archives detailing his struggle to clear his name. He also liaised with the pilot’s daughter, Sebuda, who recalled the trauma of the 11 years between the crash and the final British inquiry which pinpointed slush and standing water on the runway as the real cause of the crash. The slush and standing water produced a drag effect on the aircraft wheels which meant it did not have sufficient power to take-off, ploughing through a perimeter fence before hitting a house. Morrin also interviewed the son of the other pilot, Captain Kenneth Rayment, who died from injuries sustained in the crash. His son, Steve, who later also became a pilot, recounted how he had been beaten up a few times as a young boy by other youngsters who blamed his father for the death of their footballing idols. “Surprisingly”, Morrin says, “Steve today is a Manchester United supporter.”

    http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/munich-air-disaster-the-pilot-who-739998

    Now a 57-year-old teacher with two grown-up sons, Sebuda was nervous when she received an invitation to tomorrow’s memorial.
    Sebuda has always shunned publicity and had no contact with United until recently. She is speaking out now to ensure the truth about the accident is remembered.

    What surprises me is how one pilot can be so badly injured and the other is rushing around helping save the passengers.

    Thain’s RAF record belongs to a Jack Hawthorne Thain, service # 49685
    A James Wood Thain is invoked, erroneously, on the wiki page. In marriage and in reported death he had no second initial. It is all wrong.

    https://www.flightglobal.com/pdfarchive/view/1975/1975%20-%201496.html

    The report in 1969 as presented to the House of Commons:

    Mr. Fay and his assessors, in accordance with their terms of reference, have, therefore, reported that in their opinion Captain Thain cannot be blamed for the accident.

    http://hansard.millbanksystems.com/commons/1969/jun/10/aircraft-accident-munich-report-of

    The offcial report is here, 121pp, where it is all put to bed nicely, 11 years to get all their ducks in a line; radio operator Mr G.W. Rodgers also puts in an appearance.
    https://assets.digital.cabinet-office.gov.uk/media/5422f6c3e5274a13140005db/CAP_318_G-ALZU_6_Feb_1958_Elizabethan_Munich_1969_2nd_UK_Acc_Report.pdf

    I confess to finding it difficult to determine who James Thain was, and what his war record was.

    also reported as dead was Steward Tom Cable, actually William Thomas Cable ,born 1918 in Merthyr, but living at Pembroke, One Pin Lane, Farnham Common, Buckinghamshire in 1958 with wife Edith and son

    http://www.endole.co.uk/profile/1800371/robert-thomas-cable

    Now, is this the same William Thomas Cable, who as an aircrewman,escaped a fatal accident in 1938 near Ongar in Essex?

    July 13 1939, when Cable would have been 21…

    Battle K7630, 88 Sqn, Boscombe Down

    Hit tree and crashed, Norton Heath, Essex
    Cpl William Henry Wheeler (24) killed
    death recorded, Chelmsford, ref: 4a 547 1938 [3]
    Flt Lt David William Hyde-Gardner injured
    AC William Thomas Cable unhurt

    http://www.rcawsey.co.uk/Acc1939.htm

    Otherwise, Cable seems to pass unnoticed through the reports of the Munich crash.

    • This reply was modified 1 year, 10 months ago by  xileffilex.
    #457688

    xileffilex
    Participant

    Putting Munich aside for a moment, here’s a hoaxy feeling helicrash which ties together several other threads, Jill Dando, the BBC, music and Football.
    http://www.dailystar.co.uk/news/latest-news/371140/Claim-of-Jill-Dando-investigating-murder-of-Chelsea-footie-boss-put-forward
    The Jill Dando psy-op carries on apace
    24th March 2014

    A former BBC colleague of Jill, who fears reprisals if named, said: “Jill told me she was investigating the death of her friend Matthew Harding and money laundering claims.
    “She was killed after ignoring two warnings to back off.”

    The source claims Harding first told a friend, Irish journalist Veronica Guerin, about his fears for football.
    But she was then murdered in 1996 while working on a drugs inquiry in Dublin.
    A panicked Harding is then said to have repeated his concerns to BBC journalist Jill.
    He was killed just four months later.
    The source added: “Jill told me she had begun investigating Matthew’s death and the concerns he had shared with her.

    Allegedly, but a good story

    http://haveringwitness.blogspot.co.uk/2015_10_01_archive.html

    …journalist, John Bauldie, was killed alongside Harding in a helicopter crash. John Bauldie was the domestic partner of Biology lecturer Penny Garner who worked at Havering College of Further Education. John Bauldie is alleged to have been “investigated” by police or ex-police officers looking for sleaze as part of the plan to try and close the college. Mr Bauldie’s name is thought to have been sent to the FBI due to his writin

    Another rabbit hole.
    So, let’s call up the crash photos
    Oh dear….

    Oh dear, oh dear, oh dear. How did those pieces of scrap get buried in that dense scrubland near Middlewich?

    source: http://usa.chinadaily.com.cn/sports/2014-07/24/content_17916197_3.htm

    “investigators” at the crash scene:

    source: http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/34618.stm

    Escape by balloon???

    A leaked copy of the accident investigation report says the crash was caused by pilot Mick Goss becoming seriously disorientated in low cloud and fog at night.
    Mechanical failure of the twin-engined Squirrel helicopter – used only three weeks earlier by Tony Blair – is believed to have been ruled out by air investigators in the report due out on Thursday.
    Earlier on the day of the accident, the Harding party had traveled to balloonist Per Linstrand’s factory on Oswestry in Shropshire before travelling on to Bolton. Mr Linstrand later said that flying conditions were poor and that “it was not a night to be flying in a helicopter”.

    What of Mr Harding? Quite a complex set up:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Matthew_Harding

    Harding had four children with wife Ruth, and later on a daughter named Ella with Ecuadorian girlfriend, Vicky Jaramillo and a child with his Personal Assistant
    His inheritance was to be divided according to instructions left with two executors, Mark Killick and Margaret Nugent. Their instructions were to include provision for his twin sons by his wife Ruth and for Ella, his daughter by girlfriend Vicky Jaramillo. In the will Harding, aged 42 at the time of his death, also named Jessica, Ms Jaramillo’s daughter from a previous relationship

    http://www.thefreelibrary.com/'Only+after+Matthew+died+did+I+find+he+had+a+second+mistress+and…-a060959656

    When he was killed in a helicopter crash in October, 1996 he was worth more than pounds 125million…..
    “There are two illegitimate children,” says Ruth. “So it’s a complicated situation. Only after he died did I know about the second child. There’s just a few months between them. Incredible, isn’t it?”

    Fellow rider Bauldie was the go-to man on Bob Dylan in the UK
    http://www.independent.co.uk/news/people/obituary-john-bauldie-1351874.html
    http://www.independent.co.uk/news/people/obituary-john-bauldie-1351874.html
    Strangely this obituary was published on the 15th anniversary of his ‘death’.

    Even more strangely, lightning struck twice in the same area:
    http://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/6008/Wealthy-Chelsea-fan-killed-in-helicopter-crash
    May 2, 2007
    Friend of Abramovich dies in chopper crash at 1 AM – Philip Carter of Thornhaugh Hall, Peterborough, personal fortune GBP82m

    It is understood Mr Carter’s teenage son Andrew was also on board.

    Cambridgeshire Police confirmed wreckage had been found at around 10.15am in woodland near Peterborough – and that all four bodies were found within the aircraft.

    Detective Superintendent John Raine said the helicopter was found largely intact, although some debris had been found in surrounding woodland.

    Faye Adkin, a spokeswoman for Carter & Carter, said: “We know the helicopter has come down.”

    Let’s bring up the crash site photo.

    Oh dear oh dear. The article says Bauldie lived in Richmond, not Romord, no matter
    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-452157/Millionaire-Chelsea-fan-son-die-helicopter-crash.html

    Woodland near Wansford. Not very convincing, is it?

    Mr and Mrs Carter were occasional churchgoers, said Canon Thomas Christie, who said he saw the couple, along with their two children, a teenage boy and girl, at Christmas.
    [wife Judith, 50]

    Read more: http://metro.co.uk/2007/05/02/four-dead-after-football-helicopter-crashes-326370/

    #458084
    psyopticon
    psyopticon
    Participant

    Putting Munich aside for a moment, here’s a hoaxy feeling helicrash which ties together several other threads, Jill Dando, the BBC, music and Football.
    The Jill Dando psy-op carries on apace 24th March 2014

    A former BBC colleague of Jill [Dando], who fears reprisals if named, said: “Jill told me she was investigating the death of her friend Matthew Harding and money laundering claims.
    “She was killed after ignoring two warnings to back off.”
    The source claims Harding first told a friend, Irish journalist Veronica Guerin, about his fears for football.

    I saw that one on DI. Wonderfully fanciful idea that celebutards, like Songs-of-Praise presenter Jill Dando, are maverick investigative journalists in their spare time!

    As if we need any more proof it’s bunkum, they dovetail the story of Harding into the Veronica Guerin murder; which, again, has all the hallmarks of another hoax.

    A psyop playing to the absurd and very dated idea of an all-powerful underworld of working-class gangsters ruling organised crime. Dublin’s answer to the Krays of the East End, or Untouchables like Moss-side’s “Mr Big” Paul Massey. Martin Cahill, “the General” of Dublin, and accomplice John Traynor. Cunning crooks, ever conniving; always one step ahead of the knuckle-dragging cops!

    Sorry, nothing to do with air disasters, real or imagined!

    #458538
    rgos
    rgos
    Participant

    A special number in aircraft crashes. Number 17.

    17 killed in Cuban plane crash

    http://www.theguardian.com/world/2002/mar/15/cuba.paulhamilos

    #458541

    ab
    Keymaster

    Isn’t 17 the 911 # in France? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/17_(number)

    #458627
    rgos
    rgos
    Participant

    Isn’t 17 the 911 # in France?

    Yes, used to be (for the police) before they switched to 112.

    Many former French colonies still use 17.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_emergency_telephone_numbers

    #462175

    xileffilex
    Participant

    The staged Russian Metrojet crash veered off temporarily in the direction of earlier plane crashes involving victims from the American School in London
    http://fakeologist.com/forums/topic/halloween-aircrash-2015-metrojet-flight-7k9268/page/3/#post-461912

    Psyopticon noted that this school has had a very unlucky record, with victims also crashes at Lockerbie , Ireland and France.

    There is an article about the Gangelhoff boys who were pupils at the school

    A total of 61 fatalities, four crew members and 57 passengers dead. This was the news that Steven Gangelhoff (’69), a 16-yearold junior at ASL, received on March 24, 1968. “I was sitting in our family room at home, watching early afternoon television when the news bulletin was broadcast that there was a plane accident in the Irish Sea, a flight from Ireland to London.” He and his brother Richard Gangelhoff (’70) eventually learned that Aer Lingus Flight 712, carrying both of their parents, had spun out of control and crashed. There were no survivors. Their parents had been flying home from a business trip in Ireland when the tragic accident occurred. After he learned his parents had died, Gangelhoff had a strong feeling of loneliness. “I spent the rest of that day with my brother, but feeling mostly alone, pondering what would become of my brother and I, and our older sister,” he said. More than 30 years after the accident, in April 2011, the Mellon Library received a considerable donation from Gangelhoff. This money was used to purchase six new study tables now situated in the main room of the library. “These tables are a nice space for students to work on their own, yet they are also the perfect size for multiple students to have a quiet discussion,” Head Librarian Karen Field said. The librarians also plan to fit the tables with reading lamps and computer outlets in the near future. Gangelhoff attended ASL as a sophomore and junior. “ASL and London opened my mind to a wide variety of cultures and spectrum of thought, which had a strong impact on me in later life,” he said. While he never graduated from ASL, Gangelhoff regularly attends Class of ’69 reunions. When in London for the most recent reunion, he learned that he could provide a special gift to ASL in memory of his parents. “[The Director of Development] suggested a few ideas, including a donation in support of the Mellon Library. I thought that was an excellent idea, as my mother was an avid reader all her life, and she especially would be delighted with this gift,” Gangelhoff said. The American Memorial Collection (AMC), a non-profit or- ganization founded in 1974 and staffed mostly by parent volunteers, was created after another devastating plane crash in which a number of ASL families died. Friends of the victims wanted to honor their loss by creating a charity that would help build the collection of American books in all ASL libraries. Since its creation, the AMC has expanded to help manage all donations to the library, not only dealing with book funds, but also for general improvements. “The libraries are an integral part of every student’s education at ASL,” Head of the AMC Melissa Janssen said. “Contributing to the library is a way to directly impact the education of all students at ASL. No matter what subject students are pursuing, they all use the library.” His time in London and at ASL, however short, was a huge turning point in Gangelhoff ’s life. For good or bad, monumental changes occurred. And despite the challenges he faced, he said, “People heal, even from tragic or traumatic events. I’ve had a great life, wife and two sons. We’ve travelled the world together. Things usually work out for people.”

    And somebody has a blog here about the 1974 Turkish Airlines crash
    https://turkishdc10.wordpress.com/about-2/

    Below the video, made in 1996 [check the wreckage scenes] is a comment from a boyfriend, Stephen Davis, at the ASL of one of the victims

    My father was John A. Davis who was an executive with the Fluor Corporation at that time and I know one of his close friends son was with the Hart’s on that day.

    From Psyopticon’s link
    http://www.asl.org/uploaded/Parent_volunteer_organizations/AMC/accents.spring07.pdf
    One notices that there is one lone name, apart from the three whole families [total 14 members], making up the 15th victim – Ronald L Smith Junior

    What strikes one immediately is how the trees all seem to be standing erect, with tiny pieces of scattered wreckage among them, and even hanging in the trees.
    There’s an ironic pair of comments below the video:

    aligoulou 5 years ago
    this what a non-staged crash site looks like………
    aligoulou 5 years ago
    the crash site looks exactly like flight 93 in shanksville on 911………….

    On the blog, we learn that Wayne Wilcox was Cultural Attache to the American Embasssy in London
    and also that 18 members of Bury St Edmunds Rugby Football Club died.
    which echoes the Bali incident in 2002 when 27 members of four Rugby clubs were listed among the victims, including 11 from the Hong Kong club
    http://edition.cnn.com/2014/04/03/sport/hong-kong-sevens-bali-bomb-rugby/

    !!!

    The passenger manifest for Turkish Airlines 981 is here for reference:
    https://turkishdc10.wordpress.com/2008/06/04/passenger-manifest/

    and the associated memorial at Ermenonville is here:
    https://turkishdc10.wordpress.com/2007/08/09/memorial-to-turkish-airlines-tc-jav/
    comment

    March 3, 2015 at 11:28 pm Michael Chard
    I lost my father, Gary Ray Chard, 41 years ago today in this crash. He was a husband and father of four children living in Paris, France. I was just a young ten year old boy. This disaster turned my family upside down.

    Below is a “lucky escape” story, dated April 2 2015, the kind of which we are familiar with.

    • This reply was modified 1 year, 9 months ago by  xileffilex.
    #464411

    xileffilex
    Participant

    We touched on the highly suspicious Aer Lingus crash of 1968 off Wexford
    http://fakeologist.com/forums/topic/halloween-aircrash-2015-metrojet-flight-7k9268/page/2/

    http://cluesforum.info/viewtopic.php?f=25&t=1715&start=30

    The UK citizens were listed here
    http://reportingpoint.net/52a46e7e6729fe23.html
    In addition to the mysterious Shortens, who were covered in the Metrojet thread,
    they were Dennis Arnold, William Cox-Ife and Ellen Quinlan.
    The small number of UK nationals on a flight between there and Ireland is unusual, especially since they were outnumbered by Swiss and Belgian nationals.
    I noted that an O’Mahoney was married to one of the Shortens. Several Irish victims gave their addresses as c/o Mr Michael O’Mahony Rosana Fairyville Lawn, The Lock, Cork – the Dann sisters [?] and Miss Nora O’Mahony [aka Miss MJ Mahoney]

    Probate was granted in the UK to Brigadier Maurice Denham Jephson of The Castle Mallow in May 22 1969 – GBP 92,824 [born Romford, England, 1890,died aged 77]
    Eileen May Jephson August 5 1968 – GBP 735,341 !!! [nee Gallaher, born 1896]

    Rev Edward Joseph Hegarty The Presbytery, Ballyphehane, Cork – GBP 8235 in England
    Norah Josephine O’Mahony, 71 Marylebone Lane London W1 GBP 2627 in England

    Anthony Hugh Long, 22 Pishiobury Drive, Sawbridgeworth, Hertfordshire [probate 18 September 1968] GBP 17,447 Irish citizen
    Katherine Archer, Grenville, Carrigaloe, Cork GBP 3717 in England. Probate May 1 1970

    and two British citizens of retirement age
    Dennis Elias Arnold d 24 March 1968 63 Viceroy Close, Birmingham Bristol Road
    £2103 probate 22April 1969 [b.1902]
    William Cox Ife 2D Sloane Terrace SW1 15 july 1968 £2307 d 24 march 1968 [b.1903]

    Cox-Ife is larger than life, a director of the Doyly Carte Opera company. [married Joan C.M. Cullen, 1946]

    #486658

    xileffilex
    Participant

    A current legal wrangling case [the usual back stop for a hoax]
    has alerted me to this fake crash from 2010

    source and original storyh
    The standard absence of helicopter parts.
    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-11622393

    Princes William and Harry were in deep shock last night after a friend of the Royal Family was killed in a helicopter crash.

    Yeah, sure.

    The widow sues the helicopter pilot’s wife 2012
    http://www.standard.co.uk/news/uk/crash-helicopter-pilots-wife-is-sued-by-widow-7443955.html

    Widow fights stepson over inheritance 2015
    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/law-and-order/12027656/Family-of-tycoon-killed-in-helicopter-crash-locked-in-dispute-over-his-fortune.html

    Shocked: Crash victim Charlie Stisted was chief executive of the Guards Polo Club and a good friend of Princes William and Harry

    [another victim] Mr Wooldridge was a keen polo player and active member of the Guards club, where the Prince of Wales and Princes William and Harry are regular participants.

    I think that seals it.

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About xileffilex

doubter of everything in the MSM - photojournalists especially. Especially interested in the David Kelly suicide psy-op, Diana faked crash, Boston Marathon hoax. Old man with time to read behind the headlines. Southern England

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