Lockerbie images 1988

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This topic contains 63 replies, has 7 voices, and was last updated by  xileffilex 2 weeks, 1 day ago.

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  • #466178
    rgos
    rgos
    Participant

    In this digital day and age the distinction between model and reality has become even more blurred.

    #466272
    psyopticon
    psyopticon
    Participant

    The history of the road system around Lockerbie may hold a few clues.

    The images we see from 1988 show the old A74 Carlisle-Glasgow dual-carriageway.

    BELOW: looking south; old A74 dual Carlisle-Glasgow road; now the B7076 Lockerbie bypass

    That road, the old A74 dual, opened 1965, replacing the old (old) A74 which had passed through the middle of Lockerbie town centre.

    However, even that section of new A74 dual (Muirhouse to Water o’ Milk) continued to be a bottleneck; cluttered perhaps by local traffic. So in 1992, work started to replace the A74 dual with the A74(M), a motorway running parallel and to the west of the A74 dual.

    That new motorway, the A74(M) was completed in 1994 at a cost of £180m. The old section of A74 dual running alongside the crash-site, was downgraded and renamed the B7076; and is known locally as the Lockerbie bypass.

    Maybe something and nothing but.. Boring John, prime minister of the day, replied in 1994 to a leading question about Lockerbie. The query was posed by Scottish socialist MP Tam Dalyell (AKA Sir Thomas Dalyell of the Binns, 11th Baronet).

    The PM told the House that the Scotch Office would be recovering the repair bill for damage to the (old) A74 from PanAm’s insurers.

    Would that be one of the “benefits” for staging the crash at Lockerbie?

    It could be sold to the local Dumfriesshire bigwigs as the means of (retrospectively) funding – via a sheering-of-the-sheep (the underwriters) – a motorway upgrade to one of the most important routes into Scotland?

    It’s difficult to find other good reasons for staging the crash at Lockerbie. Its proximity to a town increased the complexity of the hoax. Even if the nearby A74 trunk road – a main artery into Scotland – gave it a major “gawp factor” for passing motorists.

    Logistically, staging the crash in the nearby hills above Torthorwald or Tundergarth, just outside Lockerbie, would have been much easier.

    #466454

    xileffilex
    Participant

    As I said, I’m hesitant about calling ‘Marklin!’. I don’t see why the trench couldn’t have been excavated in the night and the actual mess that was left was the evidence for all to see as they passed by the next day.

    That said, I’ve been trying to work out what’s going on with the roof of the white house at the end of the trough (at the other end to the main road).

    In the aerial photos the roof looks unblemished, but in others there’s clearly a difference in the colouring of the tiles. There’s a patch bottom left, particularly, which which I would think would stand out, even from the sky.
    On review I see the windows boarded-up too. This seems like evidence that the house has been attended-to in some way.

    We don’t know the date the photo of the boarded up house was taken, Tom. They could have had several weeks to prepare it for photography. The replaced or painted tiles are not at the corner where any damage would be expected. Or the house was partially inhabited and boarding up was to prevent prying eyes. But one would expect the occupiers to be in on it anyway.

    BTW, a BBC documentary uploaded to YouTube 2008 has recently, I notice, been blocked by the BBC on copyright grounds after 7 years… [Linked at the top of page 1 here]
    Makes one wonder….

    A few more images to ponder

    and one showing some immaculate roof slates amid the egegious fly tipping

    #466455

    xileffilex
    Participant

    The history of the road system around Lockerbie may hold a few clues.
    >The PM told the House that the Scotch Office would be recovering the repair bill for damage to the (old) A74 from PanAm’s insurers.

    Would that be one of the “benefits” for staging the crash at Lockerbie?

    It could be sold to the local Dumfriesshire bigwigs as the means of (retrospectively) funding a motorway upgrade to one of the most important routes into Scotland?

    It’s difficult to find other good reasons for staging the crash at Lockerbie. Its proximity to a town increased the complexity of the hoax. Even if the nearby A74 trunk road – a main artery into Scotland – gave it a major “gawp factor” for passing motorists.

    Logistically, staging the crash in the nearby hills above Torthorwald or Tundergarth, just outside Lockerbie, would have been much easier.

    Useful thoughts as usual, psyopticon. The damage to the A74 is minimal to non-existent, save for a coating of excavated earth. That’s a scam and a half in itself. An inaccessible location is usually the minimum requirement for a hoax of this quality.

    #467495

    xileffilex
    Participant

    Over at the controlled organisation National Geographic, we find this photo of the excavated trench looking towards the A74


    source

    It carefully hides the non-damage to the road with some gentle piling up of soil around the perimer of the crater.

    • This reply was modified 2 years ago by  xileffilex.
    #467599

    xileffilex
    Participant

    The Miraculous Teapot

    There is a massive archive dedicated to victim Karen Lee Hunt

    eg
    http://rememberingkarenhunt.org/karen-lee-hunt/

    She was returning from a semester studying abroad in Europe when she was killed on the flight. The teapot she had been transporting as a gift for her mother was one of the few items to survive the flight, and it is now among the family’s most prized possessions, Bob Hunt said.

    “That teapot survived falling from 31,000 feet,” Hunt said. “That was her gift to us.”

    Oddly, I can’t find a single image of the teapot.
    http://www.catholiccourier.com/regional-life/monroe/features/relatives-remember-those-lost-in-lockerbie-bombing/

    In spite of her tight schedule, Karen was finally able to fit in some of shopping. The gifts included a beautiful Wedgewood teapot for Peggy. She’d also procured liquor-filled chocolates, boxer shorts, and a teddy bear. Karen was especially proud of the gift she’d bought for Robyn. She’d found the rare Japanese Guns n’ Roses album in one of London’s many music shops. It would give her fits as she finished her packing on December 21.

    She disliked Guns n’ Roses.


    Karen, centre.

    Time to sit down and watch this video I have just discovered
    Psychological Operations (Lockerbie Bombing) (Pan Am Flight 103 Disaster)

    #468098
    rgos
    rgos
    Participant

    80s Psyopping. Makes you feel old. Is that Kool-Aid they’re drinking?

    Time to sit down and watch this video I have just discovered

    Nice find. Those crisis actors are a liability.

    Jareth seems to be another busy boy, BTW. Working through the night, so to speak.

    #468351

    xileffilex
    Participant

    80s Psyopping. Makes you feel old. Is that Kool-Aid they’re drinking?

    Nice find. Those crisis actors are a liability.

    Jareth seems to be another busy boy, BTW. Working through the night, so to speak.

    It’s a farewell party…
    Jareth is indeed ticking a lot of familiar boxes very quickly. However he/she unearths some good contemporary Lockerbie video footage.

    • This reply was modified 2 years ago by  xileffilex.
    #469991
    psyopticon
    psyopticon
    Participant

    here’s a better quality photo of the terrace with what looks like gas/bomb blast damage:

    all that moss on the roof – was it inhabited?

    And a close-up of that moss-covered roof:

    The roof to the damaged house is heavily covered in moss/lichen/airbrushed green. And yet roofs of other houses, with identical elevations towards the
    sun, remain moss-free and still slate-grey. How can that be?

    I’m fairly sure these house damage photos are composite fakes. In the fauxtographs above, the roof line drops implausibly below the guttering level; underneath the top line of the upstairs windows. But shows no sign elsewhere of roof slippage.

    These are standard-design council houses, built throughout Scotland/UK. Maybe the imagery was taken from routine demolitions of identical houses elsewhere, and just cut-and-pasted to suit?

    Here’s an intermediate demolition photo of the same house:

    How do you get the locals out of the way, though? As Tom speculated in the Aberfan Disaster thread, they were probably all rehoused earlier. Happily rehomed to a comfortable new housing estate built nearby around that time? Their old empty homes then taken over by the perps, maybe months before the crash.

    Bit-actors just assuming temporary residence, living under assumed names, making themselves conspicuous in the local community, before disappearing on that fateful night into the Scotch mist?

    BTW, a BBC documentary uploaded to YouTube 2008 has recently, I notice, been blocked by the BBC on copyright grounds after 7 years…

    [Linked at the top of page 1 here — (this one? — https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GP0_ilSYnhE ) ]
    Makes one wonder….

    What is the proper title of that blocked documentary? Is it found elsewhere? There are more than a dozen or so “documentaries” about Lockerbie, and several more docu-dramas on fileshare networks.

    One all-action, re-enacted drama, produced by Granada TV [“Lockerbie The Tragedy of Flight 103 – The Inside Story“] was produced just months later. Exceeding bad taste, if the crash were genuine.

    Another documentary The Maltese Cross was supposedly funded by roguish financial maverick Tiny Rowland. Yet in the credits, the filmmakers couldn’t even spell Tiny’s name right..



    Supposedly a “suppressed” film, The Maltese Cross generated numerous rabbit-trails of its own. Very similar in many respects to “Unlawful Killing“, the Diana documentary funded by Rowland’s (faux?) arch-nemesis Mohammed Al Fayed. Bit off-topic but how real was Rowland?

    #470143

    xileffilex
    Participant

    The roof to the damaged house is heavily covered in moss/lichen/airbrushed green. And yet roofs of other houses, with identical elevations towards the
    sun, remain moss-free and still slate-grey. How can that be?

    What is the proper title of that blocked documentary? Is it found elsewhere?

    Afraidi I can’t locate the source, psyopticon. It seems unquoted elsewhere.
    That mossy terrace certainly has that uninhabited look about it.

    I haven’t finished here yet, I’ve been taking “French leave”

    #848276

    xileffilex
    Participant

    Time to return to this thread and pick up where I left off, occasioned by the welcome appearance of a blog which is also questioning whether this “crash” actually took place.
    https://vexmansthoughts.wordpress.com/
    Some resources for future investigations

    The 2000 trial complete transcripts
    http://www.vetpath.co.uk/lockerbie/transcripts.pdf

    The Syracuse University archives –
    http://archives.syr.edu/panam/victims/

    http://archives.syr.edu/panam/other_collections/

    http://archives.syr.edu/panam/audiovisual/pa103_audiovisual.htm#series2
    e.g. in box 9
    Lockerbie: A Night Remembered, directed by Michael Grigsby (features interviews with Hugh and Margaret Connell, Ella Ramsden and many other involved in the search and rescue efforts) A/V 00096 1998-11-25

    Locals’ accounts [clicking on the individual paper link yields brief synopses…
    http://archives.syr.edu/panam/lockerbie/
    Processed Collections:
    William N. Alexander Papers
    Bannister Family Papers
    Donald T. Bogie Papers
    Colin Dorrance Papers
    Dr. Ivan Gibson Papers
    Jane Gibson Papers
    Peter Giesecke Papers
    Tom Gordon Papers
    Lockerbie Collection
    Lockerbie Academy Collection
    Loudoun-Montgomery Collection
    Jane Maxwell Papers
    Andrew McClune Collection
    Tom McCulloch Papers
    Police Scotland Collection
    Robert Togneri Papers
    The Wilson Family Papers

    http://archives.syr.edu/panam/su/pa103_su_pi_beta_phi.htm
    The Pan Am Flight 103 Archives contains additional materials and information related to the Pi Beta Phi Fraternity for Women Collection. Related collections include:
    Karen Lee Hunt Family Papers
    Julianne Francis Kelly Collection
    Alexia Kathryn Tsairis Family Papers

    Some interesting links concerning the Syracuse University London operation in 1988
    http://archives.syr.edu/panam/su/

    A massive cache of video interviews
    http://archives.syr.edu/panam/story_archives/
    https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCPZK0DOfCS4Kxa_w5A4mpCw

    Family and Friends of Victims
    Syracuse University Alumni
    Former Remembrance or Lockerbie Scholars
    Syracuse University Faculty and Staff
    Lockerbie – residents
    Others – first responders, police etc.
    e.g. let’s look at one…
    Michael Stryjewski interviewed September 13, 2013 at Lockerbie Academy in Lockerbie, Scotland
    Oral history (audio only) “No photo available”

    Let’s put that right -1982 article

    Finally, the 9/11 style legacy page, but without tributes and especially including those to the 35 students studying abroad through Syracuse University’s Division of International Programs Abroad (DIPA)
    http://archives.syr.edu/panam/victims/

    and this odd police statement without video in the “I was proceeding in an easterly direction..” style
    http://archives.syr.edu/panam/pdf/103STORYARCHIVES0003.pdf
    On or about!

    Some of the excavation/debris planting images are archived here
    https://web.archive.org/web/20080122113410/http://web.syr.edu/~vpaf103/disaster.htm

    The earlier list of victims from that website is here
    https://web.archive.org/web/20080122104757/http://web.syr.edu/~vpaf103/victims.htm

    This is a massive subject with an extra 13 years to develop the narrative, compared with 9/11 and to cover up the truth.


    http://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/75619/We-ll-still-weep-for-the-victims-20-years-after-Pan-Am-flight-103
    Retired police inspector George Stobbs was among the first at the scene in Sherwood Crescent. He says it was “hell” but confesses it could have been worse.

    “Imagine if it had happened in broad daylight,” he points out. “Imagine people had actually seen what fell from the skies that night. I don’t think they could have coped with that sight. All the bodies were in by Christmas apart from the ones in that crater. It burned for days. Anything in it was totally incinerated including the people.”

    Mr Stobbs tells of a peculiar discovery some six months after the disaster, when a bag which had seemingly been stuck up a tree fell down after another stormy night.

    “What got to me most was the fact there was a bottle of wine in that bag still in one piece,” he says. “So while the plane was shattered and all these people killed a bottle of wine survived not just the explosion but also the 31,000 feet drop. How can you make sense out of that?”
    Sure, George.

    The police and other local interviews are found in the 41-60 group of videos

    https://www.youtube.com/user/PanAm103ArchivesSU/videos?sort=dd&view=0&shelf_id=0

    • This reply was modified 10 months, 1 week ago by  xileffilex.
    #848314

    mrg4ull
    Participant

    After reading the post’s on this thread I have no choice but to reply, I am not paid by anyone to do this but as a member of
    Reynet I was in attendance at the Pan Am crash, I actually touched the fuselage which left the crater, it still resides in a scrapyard in Lockerbie if you wish to see it, I have to assume NONE of the replies are by anyone who was on site at the time or NO ONE would post such ignorant replies, if you had seen what I saw at this horrible bombing you would be ashamed of your vile remarks about it being faked, the events that transpired over a week in Lockerbie will live with me to my dying day, don’t disrespect people who died through a terrorist bomb by putting out false information, if you were not there you know shit.

    #848315

    vexman
    Participant

    Interesting comment, mrg4ull. I don’t see why should it be important whether you’re paid or not paid to reply here, that alone could make me question your reasons. I’d really like to know if you have personally seen any victims’ bodies? In what state were they? How did you handle the corpses? Do you have any pictures to back your claims with or will you stay at those published and back them with your words? Coming here to refute all published empty-handed is meaningless, your words alone will not be enough.

    In case you did not know, the alleged crater was left by impact of wing section full of kerosene and not by fuselage. Allegedly, according to the official story, there was nothing left of it after the explosion except for some bolts and nuts. So you surely did not touch that part of debris / fuselage from the crater area. The fuselage would and could not have exploded as there is nothing to explode within it. But it is different with wings, hence the crater left. You are as well referring to a terrorist bomb as the cause of death, which would make you unique in regard to the knowledge about what actually brought the plane down.

    But than again, I have to consider the possibility you were goofed with Lockerbie incident as much as the rest of the world. It is possible you were actually a member of Reynet’s crew sweeping the area for debris, not even realizing that you are sweeping debris that were not from an accident of 103 flight. I’d encourage you to take a link here , thoroughly read all posted and only then come back with something more substantial than words.

    #848316

    xileffilex
    Participant

    Calling G4ULL – a curious post. I’m not sure whether those were deliberate grammatical mistakes to disguise your paid/unpaid status. To call Raynet Reynet is interesting. So I doubt if you were even there or part of Raynet, or even a radio ham.
    http://clevelandraynet.awardspace.com/lockerbie.htm#Background

    It’s odd that there was no sign of any wreckage at Lockerbie, apart from a piece of engine buried in the road and a nose cone dumped in a field at Tundergarth, yet suddenly all this pristine jigsaw puzzle turns up at Farnborough [allegedly] as if by magic.

    How do you know the wreckage is in Dumfries, ex-Farnborough? The BBC told you?
    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-22290443
    April 25 2013
    However, due to the refurbishment of a hangar, it has now been taken to a secure location in the Dumfries area.
    Just another part of the psy-op to connect the wreckage, allegedly owned by Pan Am’s insurers, to Lockerbie. But not this alleged pile miles away in Lincolnshire, England…because “only a part of it” was taken to Dumfries, allegedly and perhaps also still owned by the Insurers…

    I guess those clever, honest Air Traffic Investigations people at Farnborough couldn’t find a place for these parts in their jigsaw.

    If indeed you were at Lockerbie, you were either involved in a hide and seek drill and were duped by it, or you were part of the cover-up exercise.

    #848318

    mrg4ull
    Participant

    Last time I replied to a post like this I was accused of being a Government paid Shill, the Nose fell in a field on a farm over a mile away that was the part I touched, as for photographs I didn’t take any too busy searching for bodies, Aircraft parts and relaying radio traffic, my job wasn’t to handle bodies just to help find them and radio base with a grid reference, the ones I saw had horrendous injuries, I like to think these people were either dead or at least unconscious before sustainin these injuries, it would be impossible for me to come here with anything other than my memories, the only other information and photos are freely available on the internet, but the day’s I spent in Lockerbie I will never forget, I only replied as I think it is not good for people who were not there to disrespect the dead by claiming a fake.

    #848319

    mrg4ull
    Participant

    So I hit a wrong letter typing on my mobile phone big deal, you have my callsign correct I was originally G6KDS class B licence took 8 Months to arrive, a lot of people took the Amateur radio test at the time, took the Morse test at Liverpool with Mr. Jardine, waited 4 Months for my class A to arrive, I was Vice Chairman at East Lancs Amateur radio club, the Chairman was Colin Green, then I was Chairman of the North West Repeater group, I mainly transmit CW on 80 and 40 Metres, I know who I am thankyou, I was neither part of a cover up or an emergency exercise, unlike you I was there I know what I saw, as I said I don’t usually post on articles such as this but was enraged by some of the comments by conspiracy theorists, some of whom probably were not born at the time, but they’ve seen it as fake on an internet forum so it MUST BE TRUE, and with that I have no more to say but don’t believe everything on the internet.

    #848320

    xileffilex
    Participant

    RAYNET members whose real work was in the Fire Service, Police or NHS tended to volunteer to work in search areas which were known to be bad i.e. which had many bodies or parts of bodies
    i.e. involved in the drill.

    This eventually increased to 1,100 police officers, plus 1,000 military personnel (Army and RAF), plus 500 more from the professional and voluntary sectors. This made an eventual total of 2,600 extra people in the Lockerbie area dealing with the disaster. Plus the press, radio and television people.

    And they need radio hams to find bodies. Suuuuure. 2600 professions on site, and where do they send G4ULL? To touch the only piece of plane fuselage,tail or wing which made any press photographer’s film canister, the “nose cone” at Tundergarth!
    And some of those reporters did well.
    Searching the news footage, we find Kirsty Wark on site, Ian Eugene Proniewicz reporting for BBC and also his then long term unmarried partner, Lis Howell who won an award for her reporting from Lockerbie of the “crash” for the “opposition”, Border TV before heading GMTV in 1992 and is now Professor of Journalism at City University
    http://www.independent.co.uk/life-style/the-hunter-davies-interview-ive-got-the-dream-ticket-this-is-the-best-job-in-tv-just-six-years-ago-1559848.html

    whereas Ian is running a cafe and farm
    https://beta.companieshouse.gov.uk/company/09233729/officers

    • This reply was modified 10 months ago by  xileffilex.
    #848324

    vexman
    Participant

    So, mrg4ull, you do not have a single picture from that search, not even where you are pictured with your colleagues while at it? I went to check the Raynet’s site and there are indeed some pictures there, mostly picturing officials while in search for debris or at the canteen while at rest. Which again only confirms that some people were engaged in search, retrieving scattered debris to central location. Which is a fact that none of us here disputed at any point – to perpetrate a trick, you need real people in front of the camera performing real actions meant to be recorded & published by MSM outlets, affecting our senses and mind with, insinuating that bodies and debris are allegedly scattered over enormous area. Yet no real carnage is shown, not even a partially wounded victim among onboard passengers. How considerate of all of you not to “harm” our innocent mind with such imagery, while we get flashed at the same period in time (1988) with real imagery of war & famine victims from all over the world. Sure. But this time you better pull it out of the drawer, it’s your last opportunity to convince us otherwise. Or at least me, I’m your biggest sceptic here, yet absolutely willing to change my mind and apologize for believing that Lockerbie incident is a HOAX. But don’t come back with the imagery on the web to do so, I’ve seen it all, there is nothing there substantial enough to back you claims with it.

    Like I said before, you may have actually been there with the Raynet’s crew, searching for whatever you were sent to search for. Do you have any pictures from the historic spectacle site, where you can be seen in the picture? Anything personal? Can you relate at all to our scepticism with understanding about how circumstantial all this officially available “evidence” looks like? If you can’t, yet at the same time you can’t produce anything more convincing, than we have a big communicational issue here. I’m fed up with this official narrative and “evidence” of nonsensical stories, and you showed up here parroting ages old mantras, expecting us to what exactly? Change our beliefs about Lockerbie based on your expert opinion and loads of convincing pictures never seen before? You lack several things to be able to try and do so.

    • This reply was modified 10 months ago by  vexman. Reason: spell check
    #848326

    vexman
    Participant

    xileffilex, thank you for all your shared findings, I can’t express enough gratitude for it.

    My gratitude goes as well to all other contributors here, who shared the clues of anomalies found in the MSM Lockerbie pictures & stories. Only by constant awareness of matrix are we set free of it, but it’s a calming joy to be aware that there are already many of us awakened.

    • This reply was modified 10 months ago by  vexman.
    #848328
    rgos
    rgos
    Participant

    The Miraculous Teapot

    There is a massive archive dedicated to victim Karen Lee Hunt

    eg
    http://rememberingkarenhunt.org/karen-lee-hunt/

    She was returning from a semester studying abroad in Europe when she was killed on the flight. The teapot she had been transporting as a gift for her mother was one of the few items to survive the flight, and it is now among the family’s most prized possessions, Bob Hunt said.

    “That teapot survived falling from 31,000 feet,” Hunt said. “That was her gift to us.”

    Hallmark of the hoax: references to popular culture.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flying_Teapot_(album)

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russell%27s_teapot

    Russell’s teapot, sometimes called the celestial teapot or cosmic teapot, is an analogy, coined by the philosopher Bertrand Russell (1872–1970), to illustrate that the philosophic burden of proof lies upon a person making scientifically unfalsifiable claims, rather than shifting the burden of disproof to others.

    How appropriate. The Tavistock boys and girls were no doubt familiar with Russell’s Flying Teapot concept.

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About xileffilex

doubter of everything in the MSM – photojournalists especially. Especially interested in the David Kelly suicide psy-op, Diana faked crash, Boston Marathon hoax. Old man with time to read behind the headlines. Southern England

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