Signifcant others of 9/11 victims

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This topic contains 18 replies, has 2 voices, and was last updated by  misom 2 months, 1 week ago.

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  • #253771

    xileffilex
    Participant

    Victims of “disasters” are frequently in retirement age, nearing retirement, or are newly married or are about to marry or have a new partner.
    Roastrunner at CF has raised the subject of the 9/11 victim Deborah A Kobus through her brother Robert Kobus. who exists.Deb seemed a fun person who loved to travel. [36 in September 2001]
    http://cluesforum.info/viewtopic.php?f=18&t=29&start=480
    The back store seems suspicious. [as almost always]
    She’s working in Aspen in hotels, suddenly, shortly before 9/11 gets a job back east in the twin towers with some minor firm, Chuo Mitsui Trust and Banking Company, on the 83rd floor of WTC2 having returned ostensibly to help her brother, Robert, care for their mother, who has Alzheimer’s disease. – [that’s two of them caring] The mother, Lottie, allegely with Alzheimers, died in 2008 in a home according to this 2011 report:
    http://www.northjersey.com/community-news/living-without-loved-ones-after-9-11-1.868885
    What then of the alleged fiancee?


    An engagement of convenience? Or?
    High School to 36 – that’s quite a large “relationship” gap in a life.
    No school friends from New Utrecht High have appeared on the tribute, only her best friend from another school,IHM. No photos pre-2001 anywhere.

    #253775

    xileffilex
    Participant

    Here he is now
    https://www.linkedin.com/pub/alex-setzler/4/750/7b5

    An old work colleague at Aspen provides back up for knowing Deborah and symmetrically taking her to her alleged best school [different school from New Utrecht, IH of Mary,Brooklyn] friend [who must have stacks of photos] in Arcadia,Los Angeles…..
    Joe Jacinto, buddy of Alex who worked with him in Aspen
    https://www.linkedin.com/pub/joe-jacinto/22/908/b4b

    Senior IT Support Trainer at Best Western International
    Phoenix, Arizona Area

    Guest Services Manager
    Starwood Hotels & Resorts Worldwide, Inc.
    1995 – 2000 (5 years)
    Westin Casuarina Beach Resort | Grand Cayman Islands BWI
    St. Regis Hotel | Aspen, CO

    #253779

    xileffilex
    Participant

    More recently..

    Account manager picks 5BD home in Henderson

    by BlockShopper News Service, published March 22, 2012
    Alexander Setzler bought a five-bedroom, 4.5-bath home at 316 New River Circle in Henderson from Gauldin Family Trust for $340,000 on Feb. 27.

    co-owner Alixandre Marie Setzler

    #254119

    xileffilex
    Participant

    From Legacy [thanks to Critical Mass atCF for making me re-examine it]

    caption: Joe, Debbie, Chris Vegas, 2000
    http://www.legacy.com/obituaries/oxfordpress/obituary.aspx?pid=117368
    I’d say “Chris” bears an uncanny resemblance even at this resolution to Alex.

    The appalling photos from champion figure skater John-Patrick Hull were taken in London
    https://twitter.com/johnpatrickhull

    “like a sister” and who travelled to London with her.[same words used by MaryAnne Mullins…AND Michael Mullins; that a lot of sisterhood]
    He was certainly a good skater in the second half of the 90s. Of course, J-P might be truly in the dark over Deborah, as indeed might Valerie Gallelli Polachak
    https://www.alumniclass.com/brockport/profile?u=1995855

    Someday, I may be able to explain [to her daughter, Deborah’s Goddaughter] what happened to you, but right now, a 5 year old cannot possibly understand why you were taken from her.

    And Joe seems married to an Iowan
    http://www.oninstagram.com/profile/following/joejacintoaz

    http://www.ussearch.com/people-search-name/Laura-Sonderleiter
    http://www.sepolkrams89.com/class_profile_empty.cfm?member_id=1409613

    #254248

    xileffilex
    Participant

    Here’s someone who worked at Mitsui Chuo on the 83rd floor, perhaps a little before Deborah

    Elizabeth Hallissy Salbod
    Assistant Reconciliation/Operations Specialist
    Chuo Mitsui Trust Co.
    August 1999 – June 2000 (11 months)World Trade Center Tower Two, NY
    [first job, immediately following a B.S.at Siena College]

    http://smth.jp/ir/annual/cmth/archive/pdf/2001/ar_04.pdf.

    Page 1
    The Chuo Mitsui Trust and Banking Company, Limited

    As of August 1, 2001

    New York Representative Office
    Satoshi Kikuchihara
    Chief Representative
    Two World Trade Center, Suite 8322
    New York, NY 10048, U.S.A.
    Telephone: 1-(212)-333-3100
    Telefax: 1-(212)-790-5435

    Overseas Subsidiaries
    Chuo Mitsui Investments, Inc.
    Sei Nakagawa
    President & CEO
    Two World Trade Center,
    Suite 8322, New York, NY 10048, U.S.A.
    Telephone: 1-(212)-790-5500
    Telefax: 1-(212)-790-5587

    [in 2000,Nakagawa’s place was occupied by Mitsuhiro Yoshizaki
    smth.jp/ir/annual/cmth/archive/pdf/2000/ar_09.pdf

    Who else “died” from Chuo?
    Grace Alegre-Cua wife of Ildefons Cua She had worked for the firm for 14 years, “most recently at 2 World Trade Center”
    In other words, transferred in for 9/11?
    And of course, the Japanese victims..
    Nobuhiro Hayatsu, 36, Katsuyuki Hirai, 32, Satoshi Kikuchihara, 43
    [Mitsui Trust and Chuo Trust signed a merger agreement in May 1999 and completed their merger in April 2000]
    Tracey Alexander of Easton PA is another who worked in the towers:

    https://www.linkedin.com/pub/tracey-alexander/59/b3b/7b6

    Chuo Trust & Banking Co.
    World Trade Center 2
    July 1990 – 1996 (6 years)

    Foreign Exchange

    Ditto Deborah Kusa

    https://www.linkedin.com/pub/deborah-kusa/56/575/29

    The Chuo Trust and Banking Co., Ltd.
    1987 – March 1994 (7 years)World Trade Center, New York, NY

    Real Estate Advisory and Analysis re: U.S. real estate investment/acquisition on behalf of the trust bank’s clients.

    Perhaps on amalgamation, space wasn’t required in the WTC.

    #254250

    xileffilex
    Participant

    Valerie Polachak added this apercu on August 9 2012 to her FB page

    Married Nicholas Polachak
    20 May 1995 at Hazleton, Pennsylvania
    It happened.. Nick tasked my sister Diane to make sure I got to the church ON Time! Debbie Kobus was in cahoots on this too. Debbie & some others tried – later short sheet our bed in our honeymoon suite. Only to be turned away..

    Apple pie beds, oh what fun. What about Debbie’s life from 18 to 36, Val?

    #848197

    xileffilex
    Participant

    Perhaps the most famous victim was Todd Beamer, the “hero” of the fake flight 93 which disappeared into a tiny hole at Shanksville, famous for his “Let’s Roll” ejaculation. 100 pages of tributes at Legacy, leaving three children, apparently, one of them unborn.
    Fifteen years later they all have Facebook accounts, along with their mum, who penned a book on 9/11, Lisa Brosious Beamer.
    She too has recently re-emerged from the shadows to speak at her alma mater. She’s a polished speaker and can turn on [and off] the croaky voice at will it seems.
    Check it out – [October 7 2016]

    see especially 7:25 and 19:10
    She also spoke in 2011 at Wheaton College – her son is behind her at 12:44 –

    Just nine days after 9/11 Lisa Beamer was thrown into the spotlight as the widow of the Let’s Roll Hero – at 2:10 2:50

    Followed by an appearance on the Larry King show to cement the narrative

    The facebook pages of Lisa and her children, Drew, Dave and Morgan [f] are surprisingly devoid of any reference to 9/11 or their heroic dad
    https://www.facebook.com/lisa.b.beamer/friends?pnref=lhc
    https://www.facebook.com/drew.beamer.7
    https://www.facebook.com/dave.beamer
    https://www.facebook.com/morgan.beamer

    The 2002 Larry King programme with Lisa and the other Lisa, Jefferson who allegedly took the call from Todd Beamer on Flight 93, is here on this 2014 “Where are they now?” 9/11 rememinder story about Jefferson
    http://edition.cnn.com/2014/09/11/us/9-11-where-are-they-now/

    But during a recent interview, Jefferson [then aged 57] asked that no details about her current job or employer be made public.

    2014 was a big year for Beamer news – Todd’s parents David and Peggy donated a 60 inch flat screen TV [yes!] to a Veterans’ home in Lorain, Ohio
    http://www.cleveland.com/avon/index.ssf/2014/07/parents_of_9-11_hero_donate_fl.html

    The Beamers split their time between the Columbus suburb of Dublin and Jacksonville Beach, Florida. They just returned from a tour of the 9/11 museum in New York City.
    “Todd’s wife, Lisa, loaned them the watch that Todd was wearing for the museum,” David Beamer said. “It is badly damaged and will forever show the time of the moment of the crash.”

    The curious aspects of Lisa’s sudden increase in wealth and her home ownership deals immediately prior to 9/11 and post 9/11 have been amply covered elsewhere.
    http://letsrollforums.com//10-2007-lisa-beamer-t17025.html

    https://forum.davidicke.com/showthread.php?t=98198

    http://letsrollforums.com//financial-fraud-9-11-t22468.html
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lisa_Beamer

    The standard charitable foundation “Heroic Choices” seems to have become moribund at the end of 2005
    https://web.archive.org/web/20050924043942/http://www.beamerfoundation.org/

    • This reply was modified 1 year, 10 months ago by  xileffilex.
    #848199

    xileffilex
    Participant

    The Larry King 2002 interview with Jefferson and Beamer is on this 2011 page
    http://edition.cnn.com/2014/09/11/us/9-11-where-are-they-now/

    One of her sons, David [seen in the 2011 Wheaton College video above] has received publicity here recently for the `15th anniversary
    https://pjmedia.com/parenting/2016/09/11/911-hero-todd-beamers-son-is-all-grown-now-and-hes-playing-college-football/2/

    https://pjmedia.com/parenting/2016/09/11/911-hero-todd-beamers-son-is-all-grown-now-and-hes-playing-college-football/

    #852856

    xileffilex
    Participant

    Deborah Kobus’ mother’s obituary is a dead link above…another here
    https://www.legacy.com/obituaries/northjersey/obituary.aspx?n=leokadia-kobus-lottie&pid=95201039
    KOBUS Leokadia “Lottie”, of Morristown, New Jersey formerly of Edgewater, NJ on Wednesday, September 26, 2007 at Care One in Morristown, she was 78 years old. Her husband, Walter Kobus, and daughter Deborah Kobus predeceased her. Lottie is survived by her son Robert Kobus and his wife Valentina of Morristown. She is also survived by her sisters, Barbara Foster of Edgewater and Irene Weeks of New York as well as her grandchildren, Genevieve and Julianna…..
    Published in The Record/Herald News on Sept. 28, 2007

    Unlike some 9/11 “victims”, tributes are still pouring in to the Legacy site
    https://www.legacy.com/guestbooks/hamilton/deborah-kobus-condolences/117368?cid=full&page=2
    e.g from Joseph Alamo

    The connection between Kobus and her alleged Fiance, born 12/1972, aged 28 at 9/11, is in the NYT

    Robert worked for the FBI
    http://video.foxnews.com/v/1648916756001/?#sp=show-clips

    Backstop for the phone call from NY on 9/11, Joe Jacinto, did work at the Aspen St Regis Hotel on 9/11…
    His twitter account is suspended, but here’s a pic of him [far left]

    Kobus is a tantalising vicsim. As Larry writes at LRF about the
    assumption that faking their death would preclude family contact.
    These are all people with the means to meet up in far away places, secluded from the unwashed masses, to clandestinely catch up with family or friends on the inside.
    After all, who would be checking besides us? And who ever thought we would be checking? The answer to both is obviously no one!

    not to mention the growth of facebook and skype.
    Interesting discussion there
    http://letsrollforums.com//48-millionaires-4-flights-t20579p5.html

    alternately
    People walk away from their families every day and never return. Intelligence assets are set up with “families” for cover all the time, it is a possibilty here as well.

    Another highly possible scenario. Perhaps that’s how some vicsims are recruited, those wanting to escape from family/marriage.

    #855649

    misom
    Participant

    If you find a free moment, please have a look at the newly created form to integrate the research about fictims of 9/11 in the Fakeopedia.

    Deborah Kobus is the first such page i created and it is not a definitive form the whole thing has. I would appreciate feedback, critic, ideas for making it better.

    #855650

    misom
    Participant
    #855654

    xileffilex
    Participant

    Oh, one of the FB photos has vanished… I can’t trace what it showed.
    But the family’s managing the event this year…
    http://911heroesrundoylestownpa.itsyourrace.com/TeamList.aspx?id=9406
    9/11 heroes run Doylestown PA 9/23/2018

    Team Kobus ( 4 )
    GENEVIEVE KOBUS https://www.facebook.com/genevieve.kobus
    JULIANNA KOBUS https://www.facebook.com/julianna.kobus
    ROBERT KOBUS https://www.facebook.com/robert.kobus.37
    VALENTINA KOBUS

    The aunt of Deborah Kobus, Irene Weeks, died in January 2008, the obituary provides two cousins of the “deceased” Deborah –
    Loretta Carol Weeks of Edgewater and one son Holly Weeks of Hawaii;

    #855658

    xileffilex
    Participant

    If you find a free moment, please have a look at the newly created form to integrate the research about fictims of 9/11 in the Fakeopedia.

    Deborah Kobus is the first such page i created and it is not a definitive form the whole thing has. I would appreciate feedback, critic, ideas for making it better.

    Note this drive-by roughing up by the CF orchestra when someone had the temerity to suggest Kobus was a real person….
    https://cluesforum.info/viewtopic.php?f=18&t=29&start=480
    There is absolutely no reason to conflate people being real and and people “dying” in the WTC, the standard piece of misdirection.

    This photo of Deborah only appears on FindAGrave

    It’s clearly the same person as in the widely distributed blue-eyed color photo.
    From a 2017 memorial tribute…
    Valerie Bruno Olynyk I watched the tribute today waiting for Debbie’s name to be called. She was a lot of fun to be around. I would’ve liked to have gotten to know her better. So senseless and sad!

    MaryAnna Mullins [wife of Michael of Arcadia CA] said she attended together with Deborah Kobus the Immaculate Heart of Mary School in Brooklyn.

    John-Patrick Hull who describes himself as a work colleague, lists various insurance companies in the NY area. Debbie seems to have had no career, b 1964, her life is one big hole for 35 years

    “friend” [Legacy] Dawn Melcher Paulke of Milwaukee
    https://www.facebook.com/dawn.paulke
    “Friend” from NY, Jeff Cimato
    https://www.facebook.com/jgc214

    “Best Friend since first grade” MaryAnna Mullins b 1964 [check]
    https://www.facebook.com/maryanna.mullins

    Schoolfriend Veronica MeEvoy who’s a FB friend of MaryAnna Mullins [vide supra]
    https://www.facebook.com/veronica.mcevoy.9

    Valerie Gallelli Polachak, whose daughter Nicole
    https://www.facebook.com/nikkixoxo97
    had Kobus as a godmother,
    https://www.facebook.com/valerie.polachak
    recently uploaded this previously unknown photo
    Debbie holding Steve for the first time 7/31/1999


    Valerie Gallelli Polachak [friend of Veronica McEvoy and MaryAnna Mullins]
    11 September 2016 · Rochester, NY, United States ·
    In memory of Debbie Kobus ?10/12/1964-9/11/2001
    One of the nicest people I have ever known. It was a privilege ??

    Liked by MaryAnna Mullins
    Here’s Steve
    https://www.facebook.com/stephen.polachak

    Dear Debbie,

    I met you through my Uncle Ralph and Aunt Helen. Our 1st photo, that I still have, was taken back in 1968. We kept in touch through the years, sometimes better than others. However, we always did spend hours spent on the phone. We had lots of get-togethers whether it was here in Rochester, NYC or in Hazleton, Pa.

    You gave me a bridal shower, you were a Maid of Honor in my wedding, you are Godmother for my firstborn — Nicole. Nicole still loves you dearly and misses you. Someday, I may be able to explain what happened to you, but right now, a 5 year old cannot possibly understand why you were taken from her…..

    I’m really glad I have those memories journalized and, through photo’s of you in my scrapbooks, you WILL be remembered for all you did! That’s all I have left, but my children will always have those photo’s… May 29 2002

    So plenty more photos to come, one imagines…

    Plenty of real people there though.
    Perhaps any of the above would like to fill in something of the missing years for Deborah Kobus

    #855659

    misom
    Participant

    There are two images of “Deborah Kobus” then:

    1 The above posted by mrs. pollachak in 2016 (?), allegedly made in 1999.
    2 The image published on the cnn memorial website

    http://edition.cnn.com/SPECIALS/2001/memorial/people/4245.html

    I would say both images represent the same real person. We do not know the real name of that person though.

    Both images look to me as made by the technique of photography and most possible by analog photo technique.

    Photo 1 looks like a photo made by polaroid, possibly mid 70’s, digitally manipulated.

    Photo 2 looks like a photo made clearly by polaroid, possibly early 70’s, digitally manipulated light, contrast, etc.

    The person respresented could be at the time of photo 1 around 25 years old; she could be at the time of photo 2 around 30. She could be at the time of 9/11 around 50-60 or more.

    #855660

    misom
    Participant

    https://www.findagrave.com/memorial/11722703/deborah-a.-kobus#view-photo=2092272

    The FindAGrave photo of “Deborah Kobus” looks also like a polaroid techinque photo maybe early 70’s.

    The real person represented by all three photos can not have been born in 1964.

    #855661

    xileffilex
    Participant

    This is full of coulds and shoulds Faye. I have provided real identities of a stack of people who knew her, who would be able to tell you far more than a photo enlarged and snipped out of another picture. There are just too many people to be involved in the support of just one “fictitious individual” I think you’ve fallen completely into the Vicsim Report hole.

    #855666

    misom
    Participant

    I am entertaining the possibility that there are more than two options for the questions surrounding the construction of the alleged victims.

    That is is not “they are complete fabrications” (aka Vicsim Report) or “real people” simply disappeared / relocated.

    The relationsships of the people presented as “her brother”, etc. are nowhere established besides in the media reports that say so, or on stasibook.

    Yes, i believe that the support of only one of the alleged victims based on the hypothesis of real person data, would need a whole network of support, prepared long before.

    Consequently i think that there are two holes also ..:)

    • This reply was modified 2 months, 1 week ago by  misom.
    #855669

    xileffilex
    Participant

    If she were a UK “victim” I would be able to see her birth registered online [as in the case of the English vicsims, as I have done, bound in alphabetical order in the same year, with mother’s family name appended] and could even order her birth certificate for pre-1968 births, which the CF crowd of drive-by naysayers would dismiss as evidence in favour of some shaky digital manipulation based on nothing, or as 9/11 being organised in 1964 or earlier, depending on the birth date of the “victim”, with an even sillier cast of baskstoppers for the support of just one of 3000 in just one staged event, involving registrars and doctors writing out fake birth certificates at random with the agreement of parents. It’s absurd.

    #855670

    misom
    Participant

    I agree completeley with you that the research about the alleged victims is not closed because of the vicsim report.
    If the vicsim report is a helpful source, it is because of the complete data it has, and the general conclusion that victims were faked.
    The question which of the alleged victims were in fact real persons and how was their implementation in the psyop organized has only been raised by yourself, culto, and now myself (who is a greenhorn…)

    I believe it is important to follow this string of research in order to establish both:
    -which of the alleged victims are fictitious entities
    -which of them were or maybe still are real persons

    I read some of the discussion about the alleged english victims and will study them more, when trying to implement the info into the fakeopedia. For me it sounds unreasonable to dismiss all data that appear in the bureaucratic apparatus about a person (as Simon did, i think).

    Back to Deborah Kobus just to clarify what i was trying to say.
    I think based on the images we are allowed to suppose that this is a real person whose images from 20 years earlier were used for the construction of the persona DK.
    But this is really only speculation and goes more into the field of “how do they construct the network that supports the alleged victim”.

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