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I don’t think a sensible default is that everybody who died at the WTC is a fake identity. Name me someone who is not real in your opinion, Mr Shack, from the UK victms.
OK, here’s one from the Cantor stable: Suria Clarke. Real or not real?Mr Shack.
I thought it was implicit that I had not researched Cantor families. The number of deaths listed seems astronomically large.
I have researched the UK connected victims. As far as I can tell they are all real people. Do you have any evidence that they are not? I would be interested in any counter evidence.
You do not address the issue of faked deaths. Are you saying all Cantor employees in their apparently incomplete list are fake people?
xeliffilexTom wrote:
The idea of simulated victims is central to understanding 9/11 and all the rest of the fakery that’s talked about on this forum.
Simulated victims needs qualifying – sim people or sim deaths. I have researched several groups of people at WTC. They all check out with births, often schools,careers, the people who worked with them at various stages of their careers check out as genuine. Yet we arrive at their deaths, surrounded by all the laughable lucky event miss stories, fake tears, totally unbelievable escape stories and, most of all, the missing crowds of escapees.
It would take a long time to go through the list of Cantor Fitzgerald employees to check them all out.
Fake deaths is an area which needs exploring. If it can be done on a small scale, it can, with resources and budgets, be scaled up. One wonders why so many of those available photos of victims are so poor, often the only one anywhere, occasionally there being no photo at all! Perhaps to make identification in a new life more difficult?
The only other explanation is that these people were all lured to the twin towers, and locked up sacrificially. I don’t see that as likely.
Evidence of deaths in the form of certificates, post-mortems and inquests, or probate is less than worthless.
There may be vicsims but I haven’t found any yet.
“Eleven people were hit in a short burst of fire”
[top video]
The whole coach load of “demonstrators” is disguised. This, the narrator says, is to prevent them being identified by people in the Libyan Bureau. Where is the coach? It could be at Watford Gap services for all we know. THe coach itself is in the then current stripey National Express Livery, possibly originating in Manchester. Or Victoria Coach station about a mile away….
Screen shots to come of the thigh massage incidents.“..her fiance, a police constable, who had also been on duty in the square and was with her as she was being given first aid before the ambulances arrived.”
The first thigh massage comes from a PC with helmet, the second from a sergeant with no helmet.
In 1952 the Coast Guard created for him the rank of chief journalist
…at age 31, having been made a journalist in 1949. Through merit, it would seem.
http://www.nytimes.com/learning/general/onthisday/bday/0811.htmlHe could certainly write….in fact he couldn’t stop writing…this is quite interesting:
http://www.uscg.mil/history/people/Alex_HaleyBio.aspThe [Hidden] report identifies 11 signal engineers and managers who, it says, must share the blame for the disaster…..[who] had made errors some worse and more numerous than others,but, the judge declared: “No one is put in the dock”. The most senior was Mr Clifford Hale,”captain of the ship” in BR’s Southern Region signals department until the day before the disaster,who announced his resignation minutes after the report became public…..Senior signal technician Mr Brian Hemingway was named as the man responsible for the wiring errors…..in his work in the Clapham Junction A relay room. “He was a man who was methodical in his practices, whether good or bad, and among the bad were his habits of failing to shorten wires and in particular to cut off eyes and failing to secure such wires by tying them back out of harm’s way”
http://news.google.com/newspapers?nid=2507&dat=19891108&id=kkVAAAAAIBAJ&sjid=YFkMAAAAIBAJ&pg=2795,2413907
So, Hemingway was very methodical about not doing the job properly as, one imagines he was trained to do. Allegedly.This is too absurd for words.
After the report was released, Clifford Hale resigned as quality manager for the British Railways Board. He was the regional signaling engineer at the time of the accident.
Hidden’s report said Hale made the ”dangerous assumption” that once a problem was identified, it would be fixed. ”The problem about Mr. Hale’s management was that it demonstrated the lack of communication which pervaded the signals and telecommunications department,” the report said.
So that clears up the coincidence – Mr Hale was signals manager until Sunday, then the morning of the crash, he was suddenly the quality manager for what appears to be the whole of the BRB, with final salary pension to match no doubt.
This would seem to be the same Cliff Hale who was IRSE president in 1987. “Institute of Railway Signal Engineers” – too much of a coincidence.
Wife: Margaret who named a diesel locomotive at Fort William in 1987.
http://www.railstaff.co.uk/2012/02/14/signal-success-for-heritage-supporters/There’s an interesting BBC report from a firefighter.Clifford Thompson from Bethnal Green station [miles away] years later here:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-25331840there were dozens of emergency service vehicles and also TV crews.
It was a surreal sight, like a massive film set. [of course!]
I walked down the steep embankment – at the bottom was a ledge with a vertical drop about 15ft (4.5m) into the cutting – and saw the jumbled mess of iron and steel.
Ladders and ropes were used to help us get down there.
I played a very small part in the rescue operation: one of about 250 firefighters who attended the incident….we worked with quiet determination to make sure that the final bodies were recovered with as much dignity as possible
The new president (2013) of the IRSE is a Mr Cliff Weedonwho wrote:
I am also greatly indebted to another well known IRSE Past President Cliff Hale who was Chief S&T Engineer on the Southern Region of British Rail in the period when I completed my training and, as well as guiding me through his regular helpful interviews, had sufficient faith in me to grant leave of absence for 3 years to undertake a research project in Cambridge and Bath Universities on track to train data transmission using audio frequency track circuits. The ‘proper’ digital
coding of track circuits that we prototyped then in 1985 to 1988 is finally coming into production, albeit with more advanced coding techniques. We will be having a paper on the recent developments during the next session which I hope will be of interest to those who believe the future retains a place for continuous track based train detection.No mention of Mr Hale’s deficiencies as identified by Hidden there, nor of the Clapham event.
News report (available to academic institutons)
Margaret Shiels reports on the evidence at the Clapham rail disaster inquiry from senior British Rail technician Brian Hemingway including a statement read out where he says he can’t specifically remember carrying out the job but he has accepted responsibility for work on the wire which caused the crash. Evidence showed a faulty fuse caused a flickering light that led to the fatal crash.
http://bufvc.ac.uk/tvandradio/lbc/index.php/segment/0002100389025
Margaret Shiels reports on senior British Rail technician Brian Hemingway’s evidence and cross-questioning at the Clapham rail disaster inquiry. He has accepted responsibility for work on the wire which caused the crash, and hasn’t had a nights sleep since. His poor work had not been checked by supervisors.
http://bufvc.ac.uk/tvandradio/lbc/index.php/segment/0002100389009
Wow,Tom. That BBC has some clips which scream out drill. And at 0.30 that head injury has elements of crisis actor about it. I’ll post some screen shots later. This is all looking very interesting. The expressions of Nicola Falcini at the commemoration are particularly animated
Or..
“I need a coffee I’ve been in a, I think I’ve been in a train crash”
after she arrives at work….. I guess it was only a small shunt, you wouldn’t pay much attention to it, would you? You’d just,er, alight in a cutting with emergency services everywhere, walk along the track beside the third rail, perhaps clambering up onto the platform past the warning notices about not trespassing on the railway and perhaps continue onwards to “work” by bus.
Oh, this witness is Marilyn Robinson who was seen to be “a bit dishevelled”
She then remembers…someone mentions the crash“…the one where the people died..”
Ah,that incident earlier this morning….
WHat happened to the rail worker?
The full report in November said the direct cause of the accident was faulty wiring by signals technician Brian Hemingway. His mistakes had allowed a signal to remain at green when the Basingstoke train had stopped just beyond it.
But it said Mr Hemingway’s “uncharacteristic” errors were because his judgement had been blunted by a “totally unacceptable” level of overtime. He had been working seven days a week for 13 weeks.
http://www.bournemouthecho.co.uk/news/10872278._I_will_never_forget____remembering_the_Clapham_rail_disaster_25_years_on/
What became of Brian?And of the Emanuel school masters? [a commemoration service was held in the school in 2013]
It was a horrendous day,” said headmaster Mark Hanley-Browne. “There are only four staff here that were here at the time and they don’t like talking about it.
[2013]
I bet they don’t. Source:
http://swlondoner.co.uk/content/10122469-victims-clapham-rail-disaster-be-remembered-25th-anniversary-serviceTHe Alison Clark story is interesting. The three people “sat” with her, presumably complete strangers, were know to her to have died.
http://www.bournemouthecho.co.uk/news/3968925.Clapham_Rail_Disaster__Looking_back_at_a_tragic_day/Alison was unconscious for three weeks, had two stomach operations, extensive plastic surgery on her face and three months of physiotherapy
The monument was made by Richard Healey. As you say, the wording is curious.
Healy also designed the Ladbroke Grove train crash memorial:
http://www.rbkc.gov.uk/leisureandlibraries/idoc.ashx
– a strange subject to specialise in; the memorial was unveiled in 1989, November 1.There seems to be no information whatsoever online on this sculptor or stonemason. Curous in itself.
An appeal raised £443,000, most of which was spent on a roadside sculpture and the garden.
“It’s been left as if the crash didn’t happen. It’s unrecognisable,” said Andrew Collis, a TV producer at Teddington Studios, who commutes from Tukewell in Essex to Teddington.
http://www.standard.co.uk/news/clapham-train-disaster-garden-left-neglected-by-network-rail-6702676.html
“It’s of no lesser value than the 7/7 memorial. Anybody who had someone involved in the crash would be absolutely shocked. It had such a wide reaching effect on everyone, yet if you look at the garden it seems to have been totally forgotten.”[there is no such place as Tukewell]
July 2009I like this:
The [next door Royal] College [of General Practitionersat No 15] was evacuated, except for two administrators who were retired naval officers.
http://patrickbaty.co.uk/2012/07/01/13-15-princes-gate/
Fancy BBC Sound recordist Sim Harris being there in the embassy by chance getting a visa….In 1976 the business of the College was extended next door into No. 15 Princes Gate. In 1992 the College obtained the freehold of No. 15. The College sold the building in 2010.
[They already had the freehold for No 14, an amalgamation of 13 and 14]
The SAS entered No. 16 Princes Gate from the balcony of No. 15….
result:
Worth having a look at a short Icke thread on the event as false flag:
http://www.davidicke.com/forum/showthread.php?t=133336Check the pieces about Chris Cramer there. Lucky he AND Simeon Harris were both there
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/in_depth/uk/2000/iranian_embassy_siege/705564.stmInteresting link, Tom.
Gaddafi agreed to pay £250,000 compensation to Yvonne’s family but Queenie gave the cash to her three surviving daughters Heather, now 49, Sarah, 44, and Debbie, 38.
“I didn’t want the money,” she says. “It’s blood money and it won’t bring Yvonne back. I gave it to the girls to help them so that some good could come from such a tragedy.”
Blood money, but OK for the other daughters?
There’s another similar police monument in London to DC Jim Morrison (off duty) at Aldwych. The incident occurred in 1991 and is unsolved to this day:
http://www.heraldscotland.com/sport/spl/aberdeen/policeman-s-courage-praised-by-coroner-1.772956
http://content.met.police.uk/News/DC-Jim-Morrison-anniversary-appeal/1400005303269/1257246745756
The stone was laid there by the Michael Winner trust, established after Yvonne Fletcher’s death.The Police Memorial Trust was formed on the 3rd May, 1984 by Film Producer Michael Winner. Its formation was almost accidental. Deeply moved by the death of police officer Yvonne Fletcher in St. James’s Square, Michael Winner wrote a letter to The Times that was published on 21 st April, 1984, suggesting that a memorial be erected.
[which came to pass on Feb 1st 1985, unveiled by PM Thatcher]
http://www.policememorial.org.uk/index.php?page=police-memorial-trust
http://www.channel4.com/news/seized-libyan-denies-link-to-yvonne-fletcher-killingLong game footage from Channel 4’s Lindsey Hilsum.
– interview with Omar al Sodani
DOn’t you just love the quote:“Once we get rid of Gadaffi and life returns to normal he will be questioned…”
– Mustafa Gheriani
I won’t start a thread yet on the obvious faked death of G. Where DID he go to?A palpable hoax. I leave analysis of this up-to-the-minute event to DrK at Nodisinfo. Nice background info, though, Carole. Very signiicant.
Well worth a very close inspection….
key questions – how it “emerged” that the ocean going racing yacht was “taking in water” [seems to stem from one of the yachtsmen’s daughters] and why the sudden change of plan that meant two crew appeared on the Cheeky Rafiki at short notice[taking a week to “emerge”. Not to mention a container ship passing so close – like a needle in a haystack encounter – yet unable to do anything [communicated by the coastguard, not Maersk Lines]Navy crews observed that the sailing vessel’s windows were smashed and the keel broken off, causing a breach in the hull
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2637724/US-Coast-Guard-hull-Cheeki-Rafiki-yacht.html
BTW Tom, no sign of incipient “cyclist’s palsy” on the part of those “Policeman” in the video….reminds me of things I have seen at Covent Garden opera house.
Seems that way Tom – with a predictable Channel 4 limited hang-out to send us down false rabbit holes. It’s so simple. Finally the memorial. Fast forward – the Gaddafi “death” tself was so palpably fake it’s a wonder nobody has called it. Wonder where Muammar went to? He was called in, as was Saddam, their jobs done. These fake deaths are everywhere.
http://jerseyeveningpost.com/news/uk-news/2014/05/23/jurors-to-visit-hillsborough-scene/
May 23 2014
The jury of 11 will leave the regular courtroom in Warrington for the day and travel to Sheffield, home of the Hillsborough stadium.The hearing was told of key events accompanied by rarely seen footage of the day taken by police and BBC cameras and stadium CCTV as the cup tie began.
Jonathan Hough QC, counsel for the inquest and Neil Malkin, the senior investigating officer for Operation Resolve, the police’s criminal investigation into the disaster, took the jury through events of the day, interspersed with a compilation of both black and white and colour video captured from the cameras.
I wonder if there is any footage which is not publicly available so far?
http://www.thecourier.co.uk/news/uk/jurors-to-visit-hillsborough-scene-1.384390
[press association]
note the expression of the guy in the white shirt, front left. Looks pretty cool.Was Duggan a psy-op? There’s usually one in process when none of the reported facts makes any sense.
I can’t realistically take it any further, Tom. But it illustrates this genre of story pumped out to fill newspapers, for which, on closer inspection, there is no real photographic evidence to prove it happened (certainly fatal cycle accidents in London do have compelling pictures to accompany them which dispel any notion of fakery immediately) followed by the weirdest of inquests I have come across for a while. It goes to show how in many cases, the coroner is just a messenger for a narrative coming from elsewhere, failing to probe its ridiculousness. Where is the imput from the pathologist? All we get is “multple injuries” – way too vague. But, in this dreamworld we live in, none of these people: police, emergency services, coroners, pathologists, journalists, etc., is to be trusted.
“…. there is nothing a pathologist could find at post mortem.
“It is, I think, the best explanation for what has happened….”http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/cyclists-palsy-death-bike-girl-3552993
It’s a farce. The best explanation has no evidence for it. I am veering away from any suggestion of a crash.
A faked death scenario is of course totally credible although impossible to prove. I thought that was what probably happened to the alleged spy-in-the-bag.
PS The pathologist here was Dr Paul McCullagh. The witness is now called Rowena Wilson-Lee
Wanker’s cramp! That made me smile.
Interesting that this blog post has just been rushed out….
I could have gone to Valley Parade that day and, as I so often did, sit on the TV gantry with friend, colleague and football commentator John Helm. I chose not to for reasons I can no longer recall….. John Helm was so sensitive in his commentary that day. His words: “Oh the poor man, the poor man” have stayed with me ever since…Ten years after the fire, and with safety at football grounds uppermost in my mind following the disasters at Bradford, Heysel and Hillsborough; I researched and produced a documentary for the ‘Dispatches’ strand. My film, commissioned by Channel 4, led me to many grounds where they still had wooden stands….
– Vernon Grant – May 11, 2014
Some witnesses..what did they see?
Chartered accountant George Gillon was well quoted, well 25 years later in 2013:
Now 71, was in the third carriage of the Bournemouth train:
http://www.standard.co.uk/news/london/vigil-held-for-clapham-junction-rail-crash-victims-25-years-on-8999700.html“I was one of the lucky ones,” he said.
“A number of my friends on that train were killed.”No names.
Who he? Why, he’s the chief commoner in the City of London b1942, cordwainer ward
http://companycheck.co.uk/director/902377734Linda Ship, 47, and her sister Diana O’Carroll, 44, travelled from Hampshire to remember their father Arthur Creek, 48, who was killed on the train.
Another survivor who spoke was Roy Daniel
http://www.basingstokegazette.co.uk/news/3986819.Train_crash_survivors_who_will_never_forget/I’m a bit puzzled how they know there were 468 passengers exactly on the Bournemouth train.
18th December 2008
Roy Daniel was with his friends in the buffet car of the 7.36am express from Basingstoke [i.e. the Bournemouth train] when it ploughed into the back of the train in front that had stopped.
He said: “At exactly 8.11am, I asked my friend how we were doing for time. At that point there was an almighty thud and all the crowd of us were flung to the ground.
“The counter from the buffet car was on top of us and we were holding it up trying to support it, trying to stop it falling on us.“We tried to stand up but it was difficult because the train was up on the embankment.”
He added: “Eventually we had some support from firemen who managed to relieve us from holding this bar up.
“I then had to climb through a hole in the carriage’s roof and up this bank with my briefcase, which was a little bit worse for wear.”
Mr Daniel, who travelled every morning to London where he worked as an accountant, was lucky. He managed to walk free from the wreckage, suffering two cracked ribs.
The 57-year-old, of Bittern Close, Kempshott, Basingstoke, no longer commutes, working mostly from home. But he said: “The disaster stays in people’s minds. The people involved in the Clapham crash will not forget it.”Richard Court, who is now a Basingstoke and Deane Borough councillor, was travelling on the express train two carriages from the front. He was commuting to his job in London as an engineer.
He said: “I was getting up to get my bag and then the next thing I knew I was flying down the seats.
“There was absolute silence in the moments after the crash and I remember very clearly the sound of a blackbird singing away.”
Now 55, Mr Court, who lives in Coniston Road, Kempshott, suffered whiplash injuries, but two years later, doctors found he had a latent back injury from the crash, which still causes him pain.
There’s an ITV video here:
http://www.itv.com/news/meridian/topic/clapham-junction-crash/
The interviewees are: Lee Middleton, a survivor from Winchester; Robin Gisby from Network Rail; and Richard Greenwood, a rescue worker.
Note the dry eye handkerchief motions at 0:06 and 0:25
Lee Middleton – pinned down by metal structures…“The bodies were completely buried with all the shrapnel from the trains so we really had to dig them out from that so it was quite a difficult day, yeah”
– Richard Greenwood, ambulance man.
[2013]Ian Gavin-Brown is now a 66-year-old lawyer, well-known for organising the Winchfield Festival. But on December 12, 1988, he was sitting in the stopping train when the express rammed into it.
Mr Gavin-Brown, of Bagwell Lane, Winchfield, said: “It was like being kicked in the back by a horse. There was a tremendous thud and everybody was shaken up.
“I got out of the train and looked back and saw nothing, because there was this bridge in the way. I was appalled to find out later that there were 35 people lying dead back there.”Why would he get out of the train onto the electrified track? Was he told to? I doubt it. We don’t hear from the guards. Are they named? Not as far as I have seen so far. They would be key witnesses.
Some interesting discussion in this wiki talk page
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk%3AClapham_Junction_rail_crash
It concerned excising this revision:Again I read that the ecs (empty coaching stock) hit the wreckage of the initial crash. This is incorrect. As the Poole hit the rear of the Basingstoke train the ecs was just passing and the coaches of the Poole ‘bounced’ into the second car of the ecs. The front car with the driver in and the guard who was up front having a chat, was uncoupled from the second car by the crash. If the train had crashed into the wreck the driver and guard would have been seriously injured or even killed. This was not the case and in photographs the front car of the ecs can be seen standing alone clear of the wrecked trains. RW Hind,ex guard and colleague of those involved.
I’m reaching the point that any event with a public inquiry after it is some kind of faked or staged event. I don’t now believe any of the stuff about “faulty wiring” which suddenly became faulty after 8am that day.
The Wiki page is well policed and always brought back to the Hidden report. The references are minimal.
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