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  • in reply to: BBC Match of the Day – what's all this then? #23640
    xileffilexxileffilex
    Participant

    Lockerbie, now…..7/7: look who happens to be in the BMA building when the bus goes boom right outside the door and is a star witness for the official narrative at the “inquest”: http://uk.linkedin.com/pub/peter-holden/7/6a8/15b
    Dr Peter John Pashley Holden

    Dr Peter Holden was already there and had taken charge as Silver medic and was clearing casualties from the bus.

    nationalarchives.gov.uk/20120216072438/http://7julyinquests.independent.gov.uk/hearing_transcripts/28012011am.htm
    you can read his contribution to the “inquest” there.

    Essentially, we heard a loud bang. I do remember everything going salmon pink at just about the same time and, in the main office, some of the staff beginning to make a lot of commotion, and came out of the office and could see the white smoke and the tree canopy gone.

    I have never seen any satisfactory explanaton for the prevously unknown phenomenon of everything going salmon pink yet.

    http://www.derbytelegraph.co.uk/doctor-dealt-tragedy-Hillsborough-July-7-bomb-terror/story-11640905-detail/story.html

    He said: “I looked out of my window and right down on to it.
    “If I hadn’t had the training it would have been chaos and lives would have been lost.
    “I’ve developed a skill-set from working alongside the emergency services and outside in an environment where I have to make-do and get a result.”
    Thanks to his work with the charity, Dr Holden knew how to oversee the emergency situation and cope with a shortage of equipment.
    He took charge of a team of 16 British Medical Association doctors who happened to be in the building, in Tavistock Square.
    Together, they created a “holding station” for casualties, where they gave medical help to wounded people.
    It took more than two hours for the ambulances to arrive because of the huge pressure on the emergency services.
    During that time, Dr Holden’s team was responsible for keeping the patients stable.
    He said: “I sat in a corner for two minutes and wrote down all the points I could remember about managing an emergency situation and then I said ‘I want you to do this, this and this’.”

    It was the second major incident he had dealt with during his 27 years involved in immediate care. The first was the Hillsborough disaster in 1989, when 96 Liverpool football fans died at Sheffield Wednesday’s stadium.
    By the time he arrived at the scene, about an hour into the incident, he said it was too late to save any more lives.
    Instead, it was Dr Holden’s job to certify the deaths of people whose bodies had been taken to the stadium’s gym.
    He said: “It was more than four dozen people. I lost count.”
    Throughout the weekend, Dr Holden coordinated a team of people who worked 12 hour shifts, took 12 hours off, and then returned to continue dealing with the aftermath of the disaster.
    He said: “I was subsequently involved in dealing with their relatives.

    “There are lots of horrible things in life but you need to put on a hard-nosed, clinical viewpoint.
    “Of course it hits you when you go to bed at night, but you get on with the job.”

    Most of the doctors who volunteer with East Midlands Immediate Care Scheme are unlikely ever to deal with an emergency situation where the number of casualties is on the scale of the Hillsborough disaster or the London bombings.
    Volunteers are called to situations by East Midlands Ambulance Service and can be paged at any time.

    Read more at http://www.derbytelegraph.co.uk/doctor-dealt-tragedy-Hillsborough-July-7-bomb-terror/story-11640905-detail/story.html#dh1mYFOTmArwmE1r.99

    that was lucky wasn’t it?

    Note his involvment in BASICS – where, at the first national symposium in Cardiff in 1978, disaster planning was discussed:
    http://www.injuryjournal.com/article/0020-1383%2890%2990153-L/abstract?cc=y
    [vice chairman 2009 onwards, press oficer and EC member since 1992] a Col. I Greaves is the “military representative”

    http://www.basicshampshire.co.uk/what-do-you-need-to-be-a-basics-hampshire-medic/

    * taking part in major exercises organised by the charity including public catastrophe – after all, the doctors who attended at 7/7 were largely BASICS UK doctors

    in reply to: Lake Nyos Cameroon CO2 gas leak disaster, 8-21-86. #23160
    xileffilexxileffilex
    Participant

    Back later..just for now, doesn’t that Mississauga train derailment look suspicously like that transparent recent hoax the simply transparent Canadian Lac Megantic “disaster” which I will get round to writing up when the flow of hoaxes slows [fat chance…]?

    in reply to: Lake Nyos Cameroon CO2 gas leak disaster, 8-21-86. #22987
    xileffilexxileffilex
    Participant

    Would like to know what Jimbo thinks now – well done for exhuming this one. Thanks Tom for your imput. The images of the tidal surge are so distant and blurred as to be meaningless.
    In that Texas pdf, [great find!] the study of Lake Monoun [Aug 1984] – hey, investigated 7 months later, that would bring Kling into the area too…

    …red-colored lake and evidence of large waves. Investigated 7 months later by Sigurdsson and Devine….Deep lakewater
    samples retrieved to the surface literally exploded
    with CO2 gas bubbles. No evidence of volcanic eruption.

    note now the tidal wave is 80m high!!!Not 25m as recorded, also implausible, elsewhere – this is astonishing.

    The Americans seems to have taken charge of these investigations from the off.
    That “dead cattle” image is everywhere, apparently the only one.

    I am very suspicious of everything here. I haven’t watched any vids yet, but will do so. So far, nothing stacks up at all.

    in reply to: Lake Nyos Cameroon CO2 gas leak disaster, 8-21-86. #22493
    xileffilexxileffilex
    Participant

    An early 1987 report on an international seminar on the event at Nyos at HiLo in the appropriately volcanic Hawaii….

    No significant amounts of gas were released while the scientists were on the scene, but on Dec. 30, according to local witnesses, the lake erupted three more times over a period of a few minutes. The witnesses were on a hillside high above the lake, and thus spared the devastation that swept silently through Nios last August.

    The findings confirmed earlier speculation that the victims died from carbon dioxide poisoning, but the scientists warned that Lake Nios could erupt again at any moment, and other volcanic areas around the world could face similar tragedies.

    What appears to makes the findings conclusive is the fact that all five teams were working independently, but they reached the same conclusion on what killed the people of Nios.

    “Each of us was at Cameroon at different times with different equipment,” said Jack Lockwood of the U.S. Geological Survey.

    That could explain why the teams reached different conclusions on how the gas was released. Some believe that there was a violent eruption of a volcanic nature. Others think that gas slowly seeped into the lake until it reached saturation, setting off a reaction that sent a giant plume of gas into the air in a process that is somewhat like popping the cork on a bottle of champagne.

    Whatever the cause of the release, all agree that the events sent a cloud of odorless, colorless carbon dioxide wafting up the valley toward the village of Nios. Nearly every living creature in its path was suffocated by the gas, which deprived the victims of oxygen when it was inhaled. The gas left at least 300 head of cattle lying lifeless on the grassy slopes of the lake.

    ‘Only Four Survived’

    “There were 1,200 people in the village,” said Michele Tuttle of the U.S. Geological Survey. “Only four survived.” The village is a little more than two miles from the lake.

    Others were killed in nearby areas, and the total number of deaths has been set at 1,700, she said.

    “But that is probably a conservative estimate,” she added. “Some have estimated the total may have gone as high as 3,000.” The exact number is uncerjtain because many bodies were buried quickly to reduce the chances of disease spreading throughout the area.

    “We were surprised to see no destruction due to an explosion,” said Francois Le Guern, a member of the French team who was one of the first scientists to arrive on the scene. He said a large volume of water had been blown out of the lake by whatever caused the gas release, but the homes appeared to be untouched.

    http://articles.latimes.com/1987-01-25/news/mn-5703_1_poison-gas
    Jan 25 1987
    hmmmm

    AND What tests were done on those remarkable 4 survivors, allegedly?
    it was reported on August 27 1986 that Tuttle from Denver, Lockwood from Hawaii and chemist Bill Evans from Menlo Park would go out to Nyos sharpish.All from the USGS..note the specualtion of Terrence Gerlach
    http://news.google.com/newspapers?nid=1346&dat=19860827&id=27EwAAAAIBAJ&sjid=ZPsDAAAAIBAJ&pg=5708,4621463
    I’d love to ask Donald Peterson about the missing volcanic gases…

    1985 before and after photos on page 1 here…

    Click to access Killer_lakes_lecture.pdf

    what were the geoscientists upto here in 1985?

    in reply to: Lake Nyos Cameroon CO2 gas leak disaster, 8-21-86. #22491
    xileffilexxileffilex
    Participant

    some good pics here Tom….science for the citizen. I must say, I find it most unsatisfying.

    Click to access 2LunchTuttlePC7.pdf

    check the skin lesions on survivors – that’s real baaaad Seeohhtooo….no mention of H2S there, which people said they smelled….ditto SO2,..it’s a volcanic lake yet these are not detected??
    A MORE DETAILED OFFICIAL NARRATIVE REPORT IS HERE

    Click to access report.pdf

    note that George Kling seems to have been studying the lake 15 months previously in May 1985, unpublished data….[p27]
    one sentence stands out…..
    “CO2 acts like an anesthetic and can produce hallucinations, such
    that many people exposed to CO2 will report the odor of sulfur compounds when
    none are present”

    is this BS??? They cite an obscure reference to support this…Clayton S White et al, Aviation Medicine, 1952.I also don’t quite buy the stratification argument, which is essential for the argument of sudden release of 1km cubed of CO2. The skin lesions are not accounted for, not resulting from CO2 clouds, obviously or hot gases. They are conveniently ignored.
    Autopsies – p.15 – seem almost non-existent. Similarly the “report” brushes over any cause for the release of gas.[alleged] It all just reads like fitting the data to fit the narrative and when it doesn’t, just ignore it. Like a cover up, but we don’t know what is being covered up.

    Note the use of Helimission in this event
    http://www.helimission.org/english/countries-of-operation/sos-operations

    On the morning of 22 August, people from the surrounding area
    started the grim task of recovery and burial. It was not until the morning of 24 August, after two Swiss missionary helicopter
    (Helimission) pilots flew into the area, that the “outside world”
    heard of the incident. Vegetation damage showed
    that a water surge had washed up the southern shore to a height of
    ~25 m.
    A water surge 6 m high had ?owed over the spillway at the
    northern end of the lake,

    Click to access p4798_0169.pdf

    [Science 236 [10 April 1987 169-175]

    in reply to: Lake Nyos Cameroon CO2 gas leak disaster, 8-21-86. #22456
    xileffilexxileffilex
    Participant

    What was the smell which was mentioned – usually H2S or SO2 from volcanic eruptions…
    1000 ppm of H2S -hydrogen sulfide – can cause rapid death; above 500 ppm it can still be fatal.

    800ppm is the generally accepted lethal concentration for 50% of an exposed human population for 5 minutes exposure (LC50).

    Some further details on concentrations and effects are given below:-

    0.0047 ppm is the recognition threshold of human smell, the concentration at which 50% of humans can detect the characteristic odour of hydrogen sulphide.

    i.e 200,000x the detection level. Thiosulfate ought to be detectable in blood or urine for this poisoning.
    http://www.hse.gov.uk/offshore/infosheets/is6-2009.htm
    but one would expect survivors on the periphery.

    For Carbon Dioxide poisoning:

    Concentrations >10% may cause convulsions, coma and death.

    i.e 100,000 ppm.

    The LC50 (Lethal Concentration which kills 50% of the exposed animals in 1 hour) is 4% for rats and 10% for humans. CO2 is heavier than air, so the concentration near the floor will be much higher.

    Co2 caused death can happen…
    http://www.whatmobile.net/2014/03/27/korean-samsung-worker-dies-carbon-dioxide-leak-factory/

    that’s a massive lake..
    5:15 AM – 27 Aug 2014

    http://www.toxipedia.org/display/toxipedia/Lake+Nyos;jsessionid=695AA16088109623B55A8400D3717431

    this well known photo

    is credited to “Jack Lockwood” of the US Geological Survey

    Lake Nyos is thermally stratified, with layers of warm, less dense water near the surface floating on the colder, denser water layers near the lake’s bottom. Over long periods, carbon dioxide gas seeping into the cold water at the lake’s bottom is dissolved in great amounts.

    Most of the time, the lake is stable and the CO2 remains in solution in the lower layers. However, over time the water becomes supersaturated, and if an event such as an earthquake or volcanic eruption occurs, large amounts of CO2 may suddenly come out of solution.

    1986 Event

    On August 21, 1986 a limnic eruption – occurs when CO2 suddenly erupts from deep lake water – occurred and triggered the release of about 1.6 million tonnes of CO2. Around a cubic kilometer of gas flowed from the mountain down into the two populated valleys below. The gas displaced all the air, suffocating 1800 people and 3500 livestock. Of the additional 4000 inhabitants who fled the valleys, many developed respiratory problems, burns and even paralysis from the gas.

    The cause of the disaster is still debated between geologists. Most geologists suspect a landslide while some believe that there was a small volcanic eruption at the base of the lake. Others still believe that cool rainwater that fell on one side of the lake triggered the overrun of the water. Whatever the cause of the dislocation, the gas-laden water of the bottom of the lake with the upper layers, where the reduced pressure allowed the gas to seep out.

    Seeping out? Quite the opposite of an eruption.
    Could have been man-made, if indeed any people really died.
    more from Jack – such a paucity of photos

    “at least 300 people were hospitalised” – what tests were done on them? How many survived? it is all so vague.

    another USGS pic…a few days later, apparently

    http://www.earth-of-fire.com/page/93


    http://www.usgs.gov/blogs/features/usgs_top_story/exploding-lakes-in-west-africa/
    February 8, 2012

    in 1994, USGS researchers discovered that large volumes of CO2 were seeping from beneath Mammoth Mountain, a young volcano in the Long Valley area of California. The seepage was triggered by a persistent swarm of earthquakes, and killed more than 100 acres of trees. The CO2also forced the U.S. Forest Service to close the area to camping.

    I am still having enourmous trouble visualising, when looking a photos of the lake from ground level, the eruption of Co2 from below; I also didn’t realise that the “venting pipe” took 15 years before it was installed.
    ..lets have a look at some videos next.

    in reply to: Lake Nyos Cameroon CO2 gas leak disaster, 8-21-86. #19286
    xileffilexxileffilex
    Participant

    This Professor George W Kling from the USA seems to be the go-to person in all aspects of research here.
    http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/science/nature/4285878.stm
    #In 2005, it says 75% of the CO2 will be removed in 5 years…now we learn this week that 85 per cent is removed…like no more is being produced….
    from the same BBC in 1986, reported again in 2010…
    http://news.bbc.co.uk/onthisday/hi/dates/stories/august/21/newsid_3380000/3380803.stm

    The gas killed all living things within a 15-mile (25km) radius of the lake, and the area is still highly contaminated.

    A doctor there said they had been poisoned by a mixture of gases including hydrogen and sulphur.

    He described the symptoms, including burning pains in the eyes and nose, coughing and signs of asphyxiation similar to strangulation, as like being gassed by a kitchen stove.

    Eyewitnesses described how the normally clear waters of the lake turned a reddish brown, while a sudden wind arose and whipped up huge waves.

    The gas is believed to have overwhelmed at least three villages.

    The entire population of one of the villages is thought to have been killed.

    There was a similar escape of toxic gases at a nearby lake in the same volcanic crater two years ago which killed 37 people.

    The Israeli Prime Minister, Shimon Peres, has said he will not cancel his state visit to Cameroon, due to start on Monday.

    He said he would be bringing a medical team and equipment for treating the victims.

    Two forensic pathologists were sent to Nyos..from the US
    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/3139823#

    J Forensic Sci. 1988 Jul;33(4):899-909.
    Medical evaluation of the victims of the 1986 Lake Nyos disaster.
    Wagner GN1, Clark MA, Koenigsberg EJ, Decata SJ.
    Author information

    * 1Department of Forensic Sciences, Armed Forces Institute of Pathology, Washington, DC.

    Abstract

    A cloud of carbon dioxide gas, with an estimated volume of 1 km3 was released from Lake Nyos, a volcanic crater lake in Cameroon, Africa, causing 1700 to 2000 human fatalities as well as killing thousands of livestock and wild animals. At the request of the Cameroonian Government, the Office of Foreign Disaster Assistance of the U.S. Department of State sent a multidisciplinary team which included 2 forensic pathologists to assist the Government of Cameroon in investigating this natural disaster. The medical evaluation was concentrated in 3 areas: the autopsy of human and animal fatalities, examination and interview of survivors, and examination of the scene of the disaster. Toxicologic specimens were obtained at autopsy, and numerous samples of lake water were collected. The autopsy findings were consistent with asphyxia. The results of chemical analyses excluded many volatiles but not carbon dioxide as the toxic agent. The exact source of this gas continues to be a subject of a heated geologic debate, but fermentation of organic materials in the lake water has been eliminated on the basis of C14 isotope studies. This investigation underlines the value of forensic pathologists in epidemiological studies and in the examination of living persons.

    in reply to: Lake Nyos Cameroon CO2 gas leak disaster, 8-21-86. #19284
    xileffilexxileffilex
    Participant

    What of survivors? It seems obvious that some on the edge of the alleged fatal area would have possibly nearly died but survived because the CO2 concentration was not fatal.
    Here’s a New Zealand study
    http://www.massey.ac.nz/~trauma/issues/2011-1/fomine.htm
    abstrct:

    At about 9 p. m. on Thursday 21 August 1986 in Cameroon an enormous volume of carbon dioxide (CO2) gas was released from Lake Nyos, a volcanic crater lake in Cameroon. The gas flowed down towards nearby settlements and killed approximately 1,800 people, 3000 cattle, and countless wild animals, birds and insects – in short almost every living creature for miles around. The official human death toll was only an estimate, the reason being that before competent authorities who collected statistics on the mortality rate could reach the disaster area, some survivors had already begun to bury victims in mass graves, and many terrified survivors had even fled corpse-filled villages and hid themselves in the forest. The impact of this event resulted in the massive involuntary resettlement of people from nearby settlements.

    The villages that were most affected by the disaster included Cha, Subum and Nyos, situated in Fungom periphery in the North West Region (previously North West Province) of Cameroon. It took two days for a medical team to arrive the lake site after local officials had called the Governor of the Northwest Region to report the strange occurrence. When the doctors and other medical personnel arrived at the lake, they found an unthinkable catastrophe and a fatal disaster far greater than they could have imagined. This article sets out to decipher and unravel the origins of the disaster, its far-reaching effects and how it led to forced human migration and massive involuntary resettlement in the region.

    About 15,000 inhabitants fled the area, as many of them developed respiratory problems, lesions and paralysis as a result of gases they inhaled.

    paralysis, gases?

    and then…

    Some critics hold the view that the Lake Nyos gas disaster was not natural. According to them, the disaster was caused by a bomb that was tested by the Israeli Government in collaboration with the Government of Cameroon. The evidence put forward by these critics is that a few hours after the lake Nyos gas disaster occurred, the Israeli forces were already at the disaster site, even before information could reach authorities in Wum, the then capital of Menchum Division.

    As local residents’ versions concerning the origins of the Lake Nyos gas disaster were varied, so too were scientists’ versions. Seven months after the disaster, President Paul Biya of Cameroon summoned an international conference that brought together scientists from different academic disciplines to unravel the causes of the unprecedented calamity. One hundred scientists and other experts from different countries sat in the conference hall in Yaounde from 16 to 20 March 1987 in an acrimonious debate to reveal the results of their findings. At the end of the conference, the experts were neatly divided into two camps (volcanologists and limnologists). Scientists from the United States of America, Cameroon, Israel, Britain, Switzerland and Japan ascribed to the limnological theory. According to this theory, carbonic gas of magmatic origin had been slowly accumulating in the lake long before it was released by the interaction of a yet unspecific trigger event. According to them, there was no direct volcanic explosion ( Cameroon, 1987). The volcanologists explained an observed phenomenon which pointed to a phreatic eruption, which did not involve fresh magma, but only superheated water flashing to steam. According to them, the phreatic explosion occurred on the bed of the lake (Smith, 2007). Another explanation by Smith suggested that cool rainwater falling on one side of the lake triggered the overturn of the CO2 layer.

    The pathologists who studied the fatalities of the Nyos tragedy were convinced that the victims died of asphyxiation, secondary to exposure to the carbon dioxide gas cloud. The entire medical evidence collected by national and foreign physicians indicated that carbon dioxide was the lethal toxic agent. Whatever the cause, the event resulted from the rapid mixing of the CO2 supersaturated deep water with the upper layers of the lake, where the reduced pressure allowed the stored CO2 to effervesce out of solution.

    On Thursday, 21 August 1986, after it had rained very hard, an unprecedented event occurred in Nyos – the lake Nyos gas disaster. By 9:30 p.m, the heavy down pour ceased and the weather became conducive for normal evening activities. This tranquil atmosphere was suddenly disturbed by a series of rumbling sounds which are said to have lasted just for a few minutes. Many people on hearing this sound came out and smelled a smell akin to gun powder and rotten eggs. Some immediately felt hot and lost consciousness without any preliminary symptoms. Those who could not resist the inhaled gas perished instantly. Many survivors of this fatal incident woke up 6-16 hours later
    The government administrators in Wum received verbal news about the disaster from Emmanuel Ngu Mbi (chief of Sebum Health Centre) who slept in Wum on the day of the disaster. On the morning of August 22, 1986, he hopped onto his bicycle and began riding from Wum towards Nyos. When he reached Cha, he smelled something strange, felt dizzy and fell unconscious. He slept there and woke up at 8.35a.m and continued his journey.
    Soon he came upon a group of huts at Nyos. He decided to see if anyone there knew what had happened to the animals. But surprisingly, as he walked up to the huts he was stunned to see dead bodies strewn everywhere. He did not find even a single person still alive – everyone in the huts was dead. He immediately threw down his bicycle and ran all the way back to Wum to report the calamity

    Mbi finally got to Wum at 10:40 a.m and reported the event immediately to his boss, Anthony Wango Wabua, Assistant Chief of Preventive Medicine, who then alerted the medical doctor, the Senior Divisional Officer of Menchum Region and finally the public security. The public security officers then sent a message to the Governor of the North West Region who in turn informed the presidency of the Republic of Cameroon. Within a few hours, the news spread like a wild fire throughout Cameroon and the world. Scientists and non-scientists commenced their search for the cause of the disaster in a manner comparable to the approach adopted by police officers to investigate crimes..

    in reply to: Lake Nyos Cameroon CO2 gas leak disaster, 8-21-86. #19265
    xileffilexxileffilex
    Participant

    Lake Nyos survivors in the Boyo camps of Kimbi and Buabua will on Monday, August 25, 2014 be privileged with gifts worth over CFA 33 million from the Minister of Territorial Administration and Decentralisation.

    The gifts are summed up in food supplies, sanitary kids and didactic materials for the pupils, students and adults of the camps.

    The Kimbi and Buabua camps in Boyo Division harbour 239 households, covering 2616 people, away from the five survivor resettlement camps in Menchum Division that received similar gifts last year.
    http://www.cameroonweb.com/CameroonHomePage/regional/artikel.php?ID=309779

    BTW 149 died and 17,000 were evacuated in a Carbon Dioxide and Hydrogen Sulfide leak from Lake Dieng in Indonesia in 1979
    http://www.volcanolive.com/dieng.html

    in reply to: Lake Nyos Cameroon CO2 gas leak disaster, 8-21-86. #19263
    xileffilexxileffilex
    Participant

    There’s a bit literature dump here, not terribly recent:
    http://www-personal.umich.edu/~gwk/research/nyos_pubs.htm

    One referene stands out which mentions a previous event in Asia, only 7 years previously…
    149 people apparently died at Lake Deng in Indonesia caused by gas leaks, Carbon Dioxide and Hydrogen Sulphide. 17,000 evacuated.
    http://www.volcanolive.com/dieng.html

    Right on cue, last week, Nyos is 85% degassed and survivors are going to return….
    http://www.cameroonweb.com/CameroonHomePage/regional/artikel.php?ID=309779

    Lake Nyos survivors in the Boyo camps of Kimbi and Buabua will on Monday, August 25, 2014 be privileged with gifts worth over CFA 33 million from the Minister of Territorial Administration and Decentralisation.

    The gifts are summed up in food supplies, sanitary kids and didactic materials for the pupils, students and adults of the camps.

    The Kimbi and Buabua camps in Boyo Division harbour 239 households, covering 2616 people, away from the five survivor resettlement camps in Menchum Division that received similar gifts last year.

    in reply to: The Hendrix Hoax? #18845
    xileffilexxileffilex
    Participant

    here’s the obscure Hendrix with left-handed guitar at Chelmsford Corn Exchange in early ’67.

    Jim Hendrix Live At The Chelmsford Corn Exchange – Feb 25th 1967

    clearly not wearing a girl’s blouse mirrored to button up the right way, and the video is no longer available. But you can see it at that well known home of popular music culture, Live Leak:
    http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=55c_1284858688&p=1

    Hmmmm

    But that plane crash is soooo faaaaake….

    in reply to: BBC Match of the Day – what's all this then? #11602
    xileffilexxileffilex
    Participant

    Tom
    check up the Yorkshire police surgeon involved here – three years later he just “invited himself” to Lockerbie and did the business there again! Astonishing. I’ve not finished here yet…

    in reply to: Malaysia Airlines Flight MH17 #11601
    xileffilexxileffilex
    Participant

    The Malaysian “crash investigators” seem to have got lost. Here they are again…

    pretty cool and relaxed aren’t they?
    I wonder how long ago these MH17 hi-viz vests were made?

    in reply to: Robin Williams R.I.P #11472
    xileffilexxileffilex
    Participant

    Family wants to be left alone to grieve in private – just like the wife of ex-BBC Radio 1 disc jockey Mike Smith who allegedly died recently of “complications followng heart surgery” when nobody knew he was ill.

    in reply to: Malaysia Airlines Flight MH17 #11428
    xileffilexxileffilex
    Participant

    shame we’ve lost that YouTube PErth crowd video, Tom. Pork pie hat man seems very happy in the still photo. This is my favourite photo from the site – Malaysian “air crash investigators” with their Lumix cameras, or whatever.

    in reply to: Frank Gardner of the BBC shot in Saudi, 2004 #11353
    xileffilexxileffilex
    Participant

    It’s one of those classic situations where you think ”I can’t believe they’d go to all that trouble”.

    sound analysis Tom – we’ll never get to find out without the case notes from King Faisal hospital in Riyadh where Frank was “”fighting for his life” 4 days later

    Following the attack, Gardner underwent extensive surgery in which up to nine bullets were reported to have been removed. He has been in a “critical but stable” condition since.

    update April 19 2005, not long to go before 7/7,
    http://www.theguardian.com/media/2005/apr/19/saudiarabia.broadcasting

    “I shouted, in Arabic, stupidly: ‘No, don’t do this!’ as soon as I saw him pulling out the pistol,” says Gardner……
    ….Gardner ran from the gunman, deeper into the district. He heard a shot and something stung his shoulder. A bullet had passed through him. He kept running. There were more shots. He was hit in the leg, his leg bone was fractured, and he fell, on a patch of waste ground. “The adrenalin was really pumping so initially the shooting didn’t hurt. It felt like a massive thump. With each bullet that went in it was like being picked up by a giant hand and slammed on the ground.” Still, these were not deadly wounds. He would have made a full recovery. But the militants weren’t finished.

    A second vehicle drew up alongside him, a cargo van. Gardner found himself looking up into the side doorway of the van where three militants crouched, looking at him. One of them was pointing a pistol.

    “I pleaded with them in Arabic not to shoot me,” says Gardner. “They had a very quick discussion among themselves. I couldn’t pick up what they were saying. Then they emptied the pistol into me at pretty much point-blank range.” Four 9mm bullets smashed into Gardner’s spinal nerves, pelvis and abdomen….Gardner found himself lying on his front, amazed to be still alive and conscious. He closed his eyes and pretended to be dead. He heard the feet of one of the militants walking around him and prepared to die. “I thought this is it, this is going to be the execution shot in the back of the head.”

    He felt the gunman rooting in his back trouser pockets. In one, he found Cumbers’ radio mike. In the other he found a miniature Qur’an of the kind Gardner often gave out as gifts…..Gardner rolled over and cried for help. His legs were paralysed. “My cries were just a sort of animal pain … it was almost beyond pain. I’m amazed I didn’t black out. Maybe some of the stomach acid had leaked, I don’t know.”….

    and so it continues, all reading like a novel…except no mention of the British ambassador to Saudi Arabia, one of the very top jobs in the uk diplomatic service, requiring one of the safest pairs of hands beyond the representatives in Israel and New York. it was Sir Sherard Cowper-Cowles at the time, later to Afghanistan before strangely bowing out in 2010
    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/10398591

    perhaps more to do with “trouser problems” or “afghan discussions”
    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2093477/Ex-wife-high-flying-diplomat-fathered-child-posting-Afghanistan-speaks-heartbreak-marriage-break-up.html

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/asia/afghanistan/9238976/Diplomat-Sir-Sherard-Cowper-Coles-marries-his-French-lover-Jasmine-Zerinini.html

    For security reasons, Bridget was not allowed to accompany him to the region.

    this thread is worth reading…
    http://shaphan.typepad.com/blog/2007/07/franks-wild-yea.html#comments

    http://shaphan.typepad.com/blog/2007/12/franks-army-yea.html

    in reply to: Malaysia Airlines Flight MH17 #11331
    xileffilexxileffilex
    Participant

    What a pair of weirdos – they had a clinic in Bad Elster, Vogtland, East Germany.
    strange comment at the xoterra site

    Jacqui Decker says:
    July 23, 2014 at 3:36 pm

    What a amazingly talented young woman. My prayers go out to the family and friends that love and adore you most. My husband had the opportunity to mentor Fatima in his IBM Extreme Blue team right before she killed away on flight #MH17. He is at the office right now mourning with the team.

    her linked-in was inspected by

    Clara Bieler
    Extreme Blue Intern at IBM

    http://www.linkedin.com/pub/fatima-dyczynski/71/b31/31a

    IT Consulting/ IBM Benelux Centre for Advanced Studies
    IBM

    Public Company; 10,001+ employees; IBM; Informatietechnologie en services industry

    June 2014 – Present (3 months) Amsterdam Area, Netherlands

    Technology Consulting idea generation for the customer.

    The aim is to develop an innovative IT solution for a big client.
    It is the analyis and implementation of an entire consultancy project with focus on innovation and creation of a prototype product that will enable the customer in an unprecedented way.
    Optimization processes by IT solutions and data analytics are key to the solution creation.

    that’s not very long is it?

    Tibetan monk Wangchuk’s lonely hearts club band in 1996 in Bad Elster – Fatima in red, front right. The old gentleman with the tie is Otto Scheuch, a painter who died the following year aged 81.
    http://www.otto-scheuch.de/
    http://vogtland-anzeiger.de/Vogtland_Anzeiger/cms-nachrichten/vogtland/vogtlaenderin-unter-den-opfern-des-todesfluges-mh17.html

    in reply to: Malaysia Airlines Flight MH17 #11306
    xileffilexxileffilex
    Participant

    So, who is the real Mevrouw van der Meer?

    Is it Ingrid van der Meer,
    http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:qT5QbYt_yHsJ:nl.linkedin.com/pub/dir/Ingrid/Meijer
    Profiel niet gevonden

    Ingrid van der Meer-Meijer
    http://www.accountant.nl/Accountant/Nieuws/Drie+leden+van+de+NBA+omgekomen+bij+vliegramp+MH17.aspx

    or is it Ingrid Meijer?

    Click to access MH17PassengerManifest.pdf

    Ingrid Meijer en dochters Sophie, Fleur en Bente
    Nederland

    Ingrid Meijer was penningmeester bij de Gooische Hockeyclub in Bussum. ‘Niet te bevatten dat hun jonge levens zo abrupt zijn geëindigd’, schrijft de Hockeyclub. ‘Onze gevoelens gaan uit naar Peter, Hans en Maja Meijer, de familieleden, vrienden en alle trim- en teamgenoten van Ingrid, Sophie, Fleur en Bente.’ Sophie van der Meer zat op het Sint-Vituscollege in Naarden. Ze zou volgend schooljaar naar de tweede klas gaan.

    http://www.volkskrant.nl/static/nmc/red/frameset/VK250714SlachtoffersMH17PG/index.html

    Ingrid Meijer was traveling with her three young daughters: Sophie, 12; Fleur, 10; and Bente, 7. Mrs. Meijer was chief financial officer at energy company Nuon, part of the Vattenfall group. She was also the treasurer at local field-hockey club Gooische Hockeyclub, where all her daughters played. Their father, Peter van der Meer wasn’t on the flight.

    http://graphics.wsj.com/documents/ig/?slug=mh17

    It is hard to imagine without her continue. our thoughts go out to everyone around her, “responds Henjo Groenewegen CEO Feenstra Group.

    and Peter?

    Peter went through the youth teams Drachtster Boys late 70s and early 80s. With the second team he once finished second in Dutch reserve championship. Around 1986 he Drachtster Boys leave and go play football. At The Knickerbockers in Groningen

    http://www.drachtsterboys.nl/

    NAARDEN / BUSSUM – Naarden mourns the loss of mother Ingrid Meijer (43) and her daughters Sophie van der Meer (12), Fleur van der Meer (10) and Bente van der Meer (7) who were killed when their plane was above the Ukraine shot. They were on their way to Bali. In both the town of Naarden and Bussum, where father Peter van der Meer lives, everyone can leave a message in the condolence register.

    in reply to: Malaysia Airlines Flight MH17 #11050
    xileffilexxileffilex
    Participant

    What percentage of books, magazinwes, tee-shirts soft toys etc, all with those tell-tale Dutch trademarks ,managed to land neartly face up? Must conduct a small home experiment. Materials: bread, butter.

    in reply to: Malaysia Airlines Flight MH17 #11002
    xileffilexxileffilex
    Participant

    in addition to another trainspotting photo,

    CNN has this wonderful “bad smell” photo

    love it – “reportedly contain passengers’ bodies”

    and another psy-op quality photo, straight out of the Libyan handbook

    http://edition.cnn.com/2014/07/17/world/europe/ukraine-malaysia-airlines-crash/index.html

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