Daily Archives: December 3, 2014

9/11 email list

Be the 1st to vote.

Somehow I got on a 9/11 email list. I’ll put it here for you all to peruse.

Good work with OBF being the only contributor to this list that makes September Clues’ points. An entity called Ace Baker left this follow up email:

9/11 demolition videos must be assumed legitimate, because it is not possible to create such special effects in real time.
9/11 demolition still photos must be assumed legitimate, because there are no discrepancies with the videos.
-Ace Baker

Ace’s main thesis to counter confuse with September Clues is that the fakery could not have been inserted in real time. I agree with that – except that the fakery was done long in advance and called “LIVE”, so no inserting would have been required. This is the main distinction between “research groups” and fakeologist.com.

Excuse me, but in order for something/anything to become useful evidence, [for a "serious" 9/11 investigator at least], such as a video or photographic image sequence,  I would think that it first of all needs to be firmly established by the researcher that the imagery they are reviewing is in fact genuine, and not a forgery. 

Surely, only then can it be used as evidence to prove/disprove any particular hypothesis?

With regard to the sequence under review, which certain individuals claim to "prove" that steel turned to dust on 9/11, the crucial first step of image verification was never taken.

It was just automatically assumed by the reviewer concerned to be genuine , and then used merely to confirm their own pre-existing assumptions about what did/ did not happen on 9/11 .

This [the assumption of "genuineness of any imagery] is a HUGE methodological mistake IMO.

I would suggest that for a serious 9/11 researcher, that the image sequence in question proves absolutely nothing until it can be established, beyond a reasonable doubt, that the sequence is  in fact genuine.

Regards, onebornfree.
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On Sun, 11/30/14, Pablo Novi  wrote:

 Subject: Fw: Steel Turning To Dust (Slide Show)
 To: "911 
 Cc: "David Griscom" <
 Date: Sunday, November 30, 2014, 8:49 PM
 Dear members
 (& friends) of the "911-Truth
 Movement",At the website of Shallel (member of our
 "911 Crash Test" Project), he has a "Steel
 Turning To Dust (Slide Show)"
 I count
 myself among the many who have raised the question
 of "exactly what are we seeing with all
 this 'dust' streaming off most (if not all) of
 the WTC Twin Towers flying/falling steel pieces &
 I'm forwarding to you all THE BEST
 explanation I ever seen. (Better said, the ONLY
 explanation I've ever seen that makes complete
 sense to me - I was never completely satisfied with any of
 the others; but was also not expert enough to know exactly
 why they didn't seem good enough to me.)
      ----- Forwarded Message -----
    From: Pablo Novi
  To: [the entire
 "911 Crash Test" Project Team]
 Cc: David
  Sent: Sunday,
 November 30, 2014 7:20 PM
  Subject: Re: Steel
 Turning To Dust (Slide Show)
 Hey all
 members (& friends) of the "911 Crash Test"
 Project,In a convo with our Shallel, he pointed me to
 his webpage over at Fetzer's Scholars ".ning."
 forum. There I ran across this "Steel Turning To Dust
 (Slide Show)". Being an expert on all things technical
 & scientific (NOT !); I decided to give somebody else a
 shot at responding. 
 I turned to dust; er, to Dr. David Griscom.
 He's been kind enough to answer a number of
 911-related questions for me/us in the past. He was his
 usual kind & highly-skilled science-explainer
 N.B. I've deleted out "[SNIP]" one
 phrase from what he wrote me in his initial explanation. (He
 agrees with this snip; it has nothing at all to do with the
 issue at hand; but instead, just Pablo fulfilling his
 obligation to our Project and to the 911-Truth Movement to
 be extra-careful about expressions that don't help
 the building of unity.)
 Yours sincerely,Pablo (Director)
 Shallel, I continue to work my way thru you webpage. So far,
 I'm duly impressed.P.P.S. In a similar vein, as I've said before,
 if anyone else has a webpage of their own or has one by
 somebody else that he/she would like me to review - please
 don't hesitate to send me the link(s). An explanation
 about why you are sending me the link(s) might not hurt!
 Thanx      From: David Griscom
  To: Pablo Novi

  Sent: Sunday, November
 30, 2014 3:42 PM
  Subject: Re: Steel
 Turning To Dust (Slide Show)
 glad you liked this, and I approve of your deleting the
 first sentence for general circulation.
 in (4) it would have been more accurate to have said
 "TWICE the speed of the SHOCKWAVES" (where the
 latter are already faster than the speed of sound in the
  Ciao, Dave
       From: Pablo Novi
  To: David Griscom
  Sent: Sunday, November
 30, 2014 11:25 AM
  Subject: Re: Steel
 Turning To Dust (Slide Show)
 Dave,Wow; talk about, "Ask and you shall
 receive."What a "made-to-order" reply,
 Dave.Thanx, I'll be forwarding this on to our crew
 (and others), (though I'll probably NOT include your
 first sentence - for tactical reasons!).Yours,Pablo
       From: David Griscom

  To: Pablo Novi

  Sent: Sunday, November
 30, 2014 9:45 AM
  Subject: Re: Steel
 Turning To Dust (Slide Show)
 although the step-wise video is interesting to contemplate,
 I see no way to separate steel dust from a very much larger
 pulverized concrete component.
 there is a way (the only way) to pulverize steel, and that
 is by shock waves initiated by explosives.
 physics was not taught in my 3 years of grad-school classes,
 and I expect this to be true of ~99% of all Ph.D.
 physicists.  I only got there by taking myself into the
 realm of impact geology, which led me to buy the 245-page
 monograph "Impact Cratering -- A Geological
 Process" by H.J. Melosh, published in 1989.  Here
 below are a few crumbs relevant to the destruction of the
 World Trad Center:
 (1) All
 craters on the earth have a mathematically-defined common
 structures.  Thus, asteroid and comet impacts create
 the same kind of crater as an underground nuclear explosion
 test at the same depth.
 (2) All such
 craters are created by shock waves created by the explosions
 of all such highly energetic materials below
 (3) In the
 case of extraterrestrial impacts, the impactor buries itself
 in seconds whereupon (compression) shock waves propagate
 upward in the impacting body.  The explosion occurs
 when this pressure wave reaches the top of the impactor and
 reflects backwards as tensile waves.
 (4) When (3)
 is reached, the material at the top (subjected to both
 upward pressure waves and downward tensile waves) ejects
 pulverized material at TWICE the
 speed of the impacting object.
 (5) This
 unexpected process has been put to work as an anti-tank
 weapon. Wikipedia for "HESH":"HESH rounds are thin metal shells filled with
 plastic explosive and a delayed-action base
  The plastic explosive is "squashed" against the
 surface of the target 
 on impact and spreads out to form a disc or "pat"
 of explosive. The base
  fuze detonates the explosive milliseconds later, creating a
 shock wave that, owing to its large surface
 area and direct contact with the target, is transmitted
 through the material."Adding to
 that, when the (pressure) shock wave is reflected backward
 (as a tensile wave) from the interior interface, the metal
 at this interface is reduced to powder, which blasts inward
 at TWICE the speed of the pressure wave (killing everyone
 (6) There
 exist some pictures of the top of one of the
 WTC's where the central steel columns are seen to
 be disintegrating unobscured by concrete dust.  This
 would be due to shock waves from explosions lower down
 reaching the top with the result described in (5).
 Ciao, Dave
    From: Pablo Novi
  To: 911 Griscom Dr.
  Sent: Saturday,
 November 29, 2014 2:16 PM
  Subject: Steel Turning
 To Dust (Slide Show)
  Dear David,http://911scholars.ning.com/photo/photo/slideshow?albumId=3488444:Album:46364This slide show was put together by the Fetzer
 version of "Scholars". I believe it was done by
 Shallel who is working (well) with us on the 911 Crash Test
 The claim is that this clearly shows steel turning
 to dust. 
 Being neither a physicist nor a good video/photo
 analyst, I'm looking for someone who is the first (&
 may be the second as well). If you have the time &
 inclination; I'm all ears (and eyes).
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