Big Grizzly thread

Be the 1st to vote.

Found this big thread on the Fakeologist Discord. I should save more of these before they are lost in the Discord ether. Sorry images don’t paste well.

UnrealYesterday at 7:07 AM
Football match kicks off with special GRIZZLY guest
Ruptly – 16 Apr 2018 – 43K views

www.youtube.com/watch?v=EitKWZ…

Russian bears are traditionally very smart and well behaving and Tim (the bear) here shows off some of his daunting skills – particularly Tim the bear’s timely clapping looks quite man-in-suite like.

The bear performance made animal activists very upset (Four Paws UK, PETA)…

Performing bear at Russian match is ‘inhumane’
www.bbc.com/sport/football/437…


YouTube
Ruptly
Football match kicks off with special GRIZZLY guest

EllisDee33Yesterday at 9:03 AM

YouTube
My South Africa
Bear Baiting In Pakistan. Is It Still Happening?

2 dogs 1 bear
of course PETA are upset about the inhumane guy in the bear suit
atlantic.ctvnews.ca/it-picked-…
deer attack!

UnrealYesterday at 9:15 AM
Oh deer !

EllisDee33Yesterday at 9:16 AM
8 point buck

UnrealYesterday at 9:20 AM

More to the point : that bear-baiting footage at the beginning looks quite realistic and rather savage. I would say this is quite an advanced trick if it is.

The suspicious part from the big bear battling two fierce pitbull-type dogs is the complete lack of injury and any sign of injury. A wild animal should be used to and equipped to kill, so the reason why the sizeable bear does not injure or mame any of the dogs seems peculiar.

What is your appreciation of the bear-baiting scene @EllisDee33 ?

EllisDee33Yesterday at 9:22 AM
i posted the baiting vid as an an example of what appeared to me, at first view, as a real bear in contrast to the circus ones. the bear seems to sustain real injuries?

UnrealYesterday at 9:27 AM

What really mystifies me is the general lack of inquisitiveness one naturally would garner from seeing evidently well faked bears. Most, if not all, comments here goes in the direction of minimizing animal media fakery.

I do understand how the bear baiting scenes look very credible indeed – still there is no blood, ripped off skin, broken limbs or any other real signs of how a wild animal would need to act if threatened.

The fact there are real animals does not make it impossible to fake these animals for entertainment purposes – as seen in a few instances with bears.

Would you @EllisDee33 consider the bipedal New Jersey black bear “Pedals” and/or the walking “Johnny Walker” Asian black bear to be faked ? Or the Russian brown Tim bear playing trumpet and clapping hands/paws & waving at the public before a football game ?

EllisDee33Yesterday at 9:33 AM
the videos you posted when looked at skeptically all seemed staged- bear actors. seems like in the west the tradition is illusion and fakery. i wouldn’t put it past the paki to torture bears

Geris-(Benoit)Yesterday at 9:34 AM
Me neither

UnrealYesterday at 9:39 AM

Agree – one would expect humans to treat animals badly – especially in poor countries from lack of education and compassion.

If you do agree the Russian circus bear Tim is indeed a man-in-suit it would nevertheless signify that it is not the disguise and general bear behaviour that is at fault for our suspicion, rather it is the advanced trickery the bear is put up to do that gives away the fraud at hand.

The fact then actually is that men-in-suits look pretty damn real if not made to perform outlandish tricks for public attention. This very fact should make those aware of the trickery realise we will be hard-pressed to discern fakery if nothing outlandish is asked of a bear.

If Tim the Russian bear is a man-in-suit, i would actually consider Bart the Bear a very good candidate for exactly the same – wouldn’t you @Geris-(Benoit) & @EllisDee33 ?

Geris-(Benoit)Yesterday at 9:42 AM
Yes ,many bears /humans interaction seems faked

UnrealYesterday at 9:42 AM
The Legacy of Bart the Bear

YouTube
ForTheGrizzly
The Legacy of Bart the Bear

GaiaYesterday at 9:44 AM
This thread is worthless without this pic:
i.ytimg.com/vi/FeMqlyARllg/max…
🙂

It’s symbolic; clowns riding clowns and the population drowns…
@Geris-(Benoit) pronounce this 33 times please…

Geris-(Benoit)Yesterday at 9:45 AM
It would cause me an aneurysm

GaiaYesterday at 9:45 AM
You’ll be fine, you survive black holes with white goo. I am confident in your abilities.

UnrealYesterday at 9:46 AM

I can’t speak for you (@Geris-(Benoit)), but this type of media-fakery is rather grotesque and despite the fact i’ve researched the topic quite a bit, i’m still shocked at the general lack of response and revulsion.

The above examples of fake bears we mostly seem to agree upon do still upset me as i once would not hesitate taking such stories as real.

Geris-(Benoit)Yesterday at 9:46 AM
I’m laughing In the street thanks
It’s just a lack of interest
Too much on the common man mind
Plus admitting to being fooled most of your life is never easy

UnrealYesterday at 9:49 AM
One would be inclined to think so (too much on the the common mind), yet plenty seem to have the time to try disprove the few occurences we seem to have discovered by finding examples to counter-act some very clearly fraudulent bears in the media.

GaiaYesterday at 9:50 AM
2 years ago they shot a spectacled bear in Fómeque, not too far from here (for a bird at least…)

Parques Nacionales Naturales de Colombia, la alcaldía municipal de Fómeque, la Corporación Autónoma Regional del Guavio y la Policía Nacional rechazan nuevo asesinato de un ejemplar de Oso Andino en el municipio de Fómeque


www.eje21.com.co/site/wp-conte…
conexioncapital.co/wp-content/…
www.las2orillas.co/wp-content/…

(looks pretty real)
stupid reason (“threatening the livestock”) and used for new laws, but real imo
Dinamica Regional
Villalobos
Parques Nacionales Naturales de Colombia, la alcaldía municipal d…

UnrealYesterday at 9:54 AM

Not all bears killed in hunting are “real” as far as i’ve researched. It doesn’t mean none are, but the biggest bears all appear to be stuffed bear costumes from my research.

Shooting Teddybears

allunreal.com/blog/shooting-te…

Again, howcome you (@Gaia) have the time to “disprove” animal-fakery and no time uncovering suspect instances ?

all unreal
unreal
all unreal | Shooting Teddybears – record bear dolls
The biggest bears in circuses or shot for the record books appear on closer inspection to be nothing else than animated teddybears – not real animals..

>all that that oversized bear-paw above is lacking is a label with the name of the producer and washing instructions

EllisDee33Yesterday at 9:56 AM
when setting up a foundation, a bear suit works best
comrade bart

UnrealYesterday at 9:59 AM

Jesse Wallace shoots 11 foot bear

article:
www.outdoorlife.com/photos/gal…

Is it really that hard to establish that this is a teddybear ? Find it funny of sorts that such evident pranks are so easily accepted.

EllisDee33Yesterday at 10:00 AM
11 feet 9 inch claws

OriginalsimulantYesterday at 10:15 AM
man in dog suit
amp.usatoday.com/amp/409961100…
www.usatoday.com/story/news/po…
USA TODAY
Trump tweets doctored image of himself giving medal to ‘American h…
The altered image shows Trump giving a canine version of the Medal of Honor to the dog wounded in the raid that killed Abu Bakr al-Baghdadi.

UnrealYesterday at 10:21 AM

The dead bear you (@Gaia) present as real did serve very heavily in the media, and as you mention, even changed the law.

Judging from the media coverage, this story seems in every way construed for a purpose – yet those who staged this event either waited to find a dead speckled bear, or killed one to launch their campaign.

I’m not certain about the bear – but i’m rather certain your example of a “real bear” comes from a staged media event which is very poor judgement to use as an exeample of anything real – they might as well have staged the dead bear alltogether as the rest is a media-hoax.

GaiaYesterday at 10:23 AM
@Unreal “I present as real”? I said real in my opinion.

Whatever man. If you assume they are hoaxing a fake bear in an area where (still, few) bears exist, be my guest, if you feel happy with that.

I think it’s real, I do not “present it as such”. Happy sleuthing for reality!

UnrealYesterday at 10:23 AM
Mucho Media for 1 dead bear

UnrealYesterday at 10:37 AM

It is easy to quarrel about words as it distracts from the actual point i tried to make which is rather straight-forward:

You (@Gaia) present your opinion of what is real based on an example taken from a staged media event that you seemingly have not researched very well. That is poor judgement on your behalf (imo).

The very attitude of “disproving” the use of fake animals in media-hoaxes by providing poorly researched examples of merely “real” animals is equally contrary to uncovering seldomly questioned animals in media fakery.

GaiaYesterday at 10:38 AM
huh? a staged media event? So you present your opinion as truth and then use that to attack my views which are different?

Do you know anything about logic? Rhetorical question.
Do you know anything about Colombia? Rhetorical question.
good day, I am spending my time on something valuable

UnrealYesterday at 10:42 AM
Great – good excuse for poor reasoning – nobody can question a Colombian media-hoax if they don’t live in Colombia.

GaiaYesterday at 10:46 AM
perfect strawman, QED. Train yourself and get rid of those preconceptions.
Enjoy your day

UnrealYesterday at 10:49 AM
Making the “living in Columbia” appeal to authority fallacy was your merit @Gaia, not mine.

GaiaYesterday at 10:50 AM
Even doesn’t know the name of the country. :rolling_eyes:
How can I ever take you seriously man? :rofl:
Fix your toes; you shot yourself in the foot too many times now.

You should learn to hold yourself to the same standards as you do others (me) and even the fucking mass media world. Clown.

Over and out.

UnrealYesterday at 10:52 AM

Wow – great argument – not that i didn’t write the name of the country you claim to reside in correct several times before misspelling it.

Another very good excuse for poor reasoning – nobody can understand what i tried to say because i make typing errors !

Geris-(Benoit)Yesterday at 11:36 AM
Let all agree that some bears are fake ,no need to battle over specific cases

UnrealYesterday at 12:11 PM

It would be a very good thing indeed that we all agree some bears are fake @Geris-(Benoit).

As the presence of fake bears in the media mostly pass as merely “weird” but still “real” stories (i.e. “Pedals” black bear, “Johnny Walker” Asian black bear, “Tim” the Russian circus bear), documenting the few instances we know of so far is actually akin to exploring a new angle to media-fakery.

The topic of men-in-suits acting as real bears has not been researched or studied in any meaningful way in regards to Fakeology in conspiracy culture as far as i’m aware.

I do understand the initial skepticism, but it would be more helpful that Fakeologist look into the media-fakery angle of these occurrences rather than insisting merely on bringing forth counter-examples.

The level of trickery involved to pull off circus stunts such as in the case of Russian brown bear “Tim” are very advanced, and the presence of such trickery in international Circuses speaks of the long traditions behind such tricks as men performing as bears.

These are bears that look incredibly nature like, apparently eats food, takes baths and lick their trainers faces close-up. This is professional illusion at a high level.

hereunder Russian brown bear “Tim” in training…

EllisDee33Yesterday at 12:15 PM
If it is profitable it will be done. Why the obsession with bears?

UnrealYesterday at 12:22 PM

I would call it a focus moreso than an obsession – but that is not for me to decide how you see it !

The reason i’ve looked at bears is because i’ve have experienced first hand fright of bears during my youth, and that i’ve come to discover how many predator bears are merely media-hoaxes.

In other words, i might have been a victim to bear-fear propaganda, and i find it humiliating to be fooled again as an adult – i’d rather help out others rid their fear when/if based on fake occurrences of predator bears

below bear-spray inventor and bear behaviour specialist Mark Matheny faking a bear attack with quite poor teatrical effects in 1992 – he built an industry on a groce lie (imo)

Bears Fear Well

Bears Fear Well


all unreal
unreal
all unreal | Bears Fear Well & often played by acrobats
Gruesome and grisly bears used to fight bold men in the ring – even recently – still few notice not only fights were fixed but the animals too..

XyphusYesterday at 12:44 PM
What happened in your youth Unreal?

Geris-(Benoit)Yesterday at 2:37 PM
Some agencies would have you thinking otherwise
www.nps.gov/orgs/1563/cold-cas…
Cold Cases – Investigative Services (U.S. National Park Service)
Please scroll through this roster of cold cases, which include missing persons, accidents or crimes in the National Parks that have yet to be solved and have no active leads.

ww2.movies123.pro/movie/missin…
Missing 411: The Hunted 2019 Watch Full Movie for Free on Movies123
Missing 411: The Hunted 2019 watch online in HD on Movies123! Here you can watch a great many free streaming Movies online! ? No downloading ? No Registration ? Only instant streaming

UnrealYesterday at 2:41 PM

There is an actual list of Yellowstone bear-attack victims, which i would argue differ quite a bit in scope from merely missing persons.

www.nps.gov/yell/learn/nature/…

Bear-Inflicted Human Injuries and Fatalities in Yellowstone – Yell…

It was in Yellowstone National Park that Mark Matheny contends to have had his Grizzly Bear attack that left him with his left cheek opened, jaw muscle torn loose from jawbone, a bite wound close to jugular vein, another head bite that punctured his eyebrow bone and the crown of his head…

www.udap.com/mm5/mark-full-sto…

UDAP Pepper Power
Find Bear spray in Alaska. Bear Spray orders for Alaska. You may find bear spray by visiting one of these retailers.

OriginalsimulantYesterday at 3:29 PM

YouTube
DEATHTRAP TRAILERS
GRIZZLY – (1976) Trailer

UnrealYesterday at 3:32 PM

” A Kodiak bear nicknamed Teddy performed as the killer grizzly. Teddy was 11 feet tall and was the largest bear in captivity at that time. The bear was rented from the Olympic Game Ranch in Sequim, Washington, where he was kept behind an electric fence. The crew was protected from the bear by a piece of green string running through the shooting locations and a ticking kitchen timer. This resembled (to the bear) an electric fence. Actors and crew members were instructed to always stay on the camera side of the string. The bear did not actually roar, so it was tricked into making the motions of roaring by throwing several marshmallows into its mouth and then holding a final marshmallow in front of its face but not throwing it. The bear would stretch for it. The sound was artificially produced “

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grizzly_…

Grizzly (film)
Grizzly (also known as Killer Grizzly on television) is a 1976 American thriller film directed by William Girdler, about an 18-foot-tall, 2000 pound, man-eating grizzly bear that terrorizes a National Forest. It stars Christopher George, Andrew Prine and Richard Jaeckel. Wide…

OriginalsimulantYesterday at 3:35 PM
That movie ruled when I was a kid

Geris-(Benoit)Yesterday at 3:39 PM
“Teddy was 11 feet tall”
“18 feet of gut-crunching ,man-eating terror”

UnrealYesterday at 3:46 PM

The bear trainer in Grizzly (1976) was Ruth LaBarge who still train bears – Teddy is gone but she’s got 5 new bears today.

vimeo.com/316690283

Training Bears

OriginalsimulantYesterday at 3:49 PM
I’d whip that bears ass

XyphusYesterday at 4:19 PM
Not with all that TERROR

UnrealYesterday at 4:20 PM

Whipping Teddy from the Grizzly 1976 movie might be overkill – you could just do as they did on set – trick it by throwing several marshmallows into its mouth and then holding a final marshmallow in front of its face (but not throwing it)

OriginalsimulantYesterday at 6:16 PM

YouTube
CartoonsIntros
Help!… It’s the Hair Bear Bunch! (1971) – Intro (Opening)

rachelYesterday at 6:18 PM
I missed some bear talk.

rachelYesterday at 6:32 PM
a man getting up, definitely

XyphusYesterday at 6:35 PM
Holy shit, hair bear bunch! That takes me back

OriginalsimulantYesterday at 6:40 PM
Hair pie bunch

UnrealYesterday at 6:42 PM

Agree – it is the ambition to be overly “advanced” that gives away the trickery.

The technical details are otherwise very well done. This is a bear that has saliva, expressive eyes, that eat bisquits, takes baths, swims, jumps…

If this man-in-suit bear-actor didn’t go overambitious on his tricks, there is no way a layman could ever figure out this is an actor and no real bear.

The troubling fact here is that there are many examples of bears that “live” in the family of the bear-trainer – not only in Russia like “Tim” the bear, but also in the USA…

rachelYesterday at 6:46 PM
Agreed, I wouldn’t be able to tell at all, only for the awkward way the bear shifts its weight. That’s the give away.
The bear bating film. The first bear I thought was real, it was more dog size, and you know I was supposing real bears might actually belong the the dog family, in a similar way wolves do.
The second one where the bear stands up, that’s a man, so seeing that, it does call into question the first one, on how real that is.

OriginalsimulantYesterday at 6:54 PM

Bear Suit Hire | Realistic and Cartoon


Animatronic Bear
Matt
Bear Suit Hire | Realistic and Cartoon

UnrealYesterday at 6:55 PM

Some random exemples hereunder of bear-trainer families. Thing is : they all look and feel like Tim the Russian bear we suspect is fake.

Can a real bear look so much like a fake bear, down to each and every movement and gesture ?

Is it credible for humans in family surroundings to have a bear as a pet in reality for years on end ?

Our Big Bear Family
29 Sep 2016 – 21.8M views

www.youtube.com/watch?v=J184Fm…

Breakfast With Your Pet Bear | Bear About The House: Me & My Supersized Pet
Channel 4 – 28 Jul 2017 – 7.7M views

www.youtube.com/watch?v=IM0GEN…

Russia: Meet Stepan, the 300kg brown bear who’s found a human family
Ruptly – 10 Jun 2016 – 73K views

www.youtube.com/watch?v=6IatcH…

YouTube
Beastly
Our Big Bear Family

YouTube
Channel 4
Breakfast With Your Pet Bear | Bear About The House: Me & My Super…

YouTube
Ruptly
Russia: Meet Stepan, the 300kg brown bear who’s found a human family

rachelYesterday at 7:13 PM
So going back to this one first…

YouTube
ForTheGrizzly
The Legacy of Bart the Bear

I didn’t bother listening to what was being said, but it appears only one bear?

UnrealYesterday at 7:13 PM
Yes,,, Bart the Bear 1 died of cancer in 2000

rachelYesterday at 7:14 PM

that is a different sized bear
two bears

UnrealYesterday at 7:15 PM
Bart 1
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bart_the…
Bart the Bear
Bart the Bear (January 19, 1977 – May 10, 2000) was a male Alaskan Kodiak bear best known for his numerous appearances in Hollywood films, including The Bear (for which he received widespread acclaim), White Fang, Legends of the Fall, and The Edge. He was trained by animal…

Bart 2
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bart_the…
Bart the Bear 2
Bart the Bear 2, also called Bart the Bear II, Bart 2, Bart II, or Little Bart (born January 20, 2000) is a male interior Alaskan brown bear actor who has appeared in several Hollywood films and television series, including An Unfinished Life, Into the Wild, We Bought a Zoo, …

rachelYesterday at 7:16 PM
The second gif I’ve posted, that’s the smaller bear, do you think man?
I’m thinking it doesn’t leave the ground.

UnrealYesterday at 7:17 PM

Indeed – Bart grew all his life untill he got cancer ?

” Bart was born on January 19, 1977, at the Baltimore Zoo. When Bart was five weeks old and weighed five pounds (2 kg), he was adopted by Doug and Lynne Seus, who worked as animal trainers for films. The Seuses trained Bart using a reward and praise system. “

rachelYesterday at 7:18 PM
But the guy is wearing the same jeans and shirt, so the two different sized bears aren’t on different days.

UnrealYesterday at 7:19 PM

Maybe we should ask Gaia – his father set up a retreat for mistreated bears from the Balkans in Holland.

pieceofmindful.com/2017/12/14/…

Piece of Mindful
Mark Tokarski
Grizzly deaths
I was not prepared to accept this comment from XE on first reading. It sat uncomfortably even as I know I can be fooled, and have been time and again. I watched the movie Grizzly Man in 2005, and w…

rachelYesterday at 7:20 PM
I’m just looking at how the fakery works. I know from other things, they play with scale.
We have mummy and daddy bear, would you say both men in suits?
Let’s introduce baby bear…

UnrealYesterday at 7:24 PM

One of my thoughts at the outset was that the Circus might be where faking bears might have begun – a long time ago using dog material – mouth/teeth & fur.

The circus offers very good conditions for training, and the performers would be acrobats – usually much stronger than normal men & women compared to their bodyweight and very agile – good balance etc.

rachelYesterday at 7:25 PM
That third clip is a dog in a bear suit.

Geris-(Benoit)Yesterday at 7:25 PM
en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Beast_…
Beast_of_G%C3%A9vaudan

UnrealYesterday at 7:25 PM

Tim the Russian bear is a good exemple – it performs in a circus.

Agree – that bear acts like a dog ! Could be how they do the cubs ?

Geris-(Benoit)Yesterday at 7:26 PM
The beast of givaudan is a great case

rachelYesterday at 7:26 PM
Maybe @Unreal
I think bears at large dog size are real.
Like this one…

Geris-(Benoit)Yesterday at 7:29 PM

rachelYesterday at 7:29 PM
ha!

Geris-(Benoit)Yesterday at 7:29 PM
I have a friend that own such a dog
The dog once head-butted me

UnrealYesterday at 7:30 PM

That would fit my opinion @rachel – the big grisly bears performing tricks is the culprit in bear-imposture imo

Just imagine what this would mean if there are no 11 feet Grizzly bears…

Geris-(Benoit)Yesterday at 7:30 PM

rachelYesterday at 7:31 PM
@Geris-(Benoit) sweet.

Geris-(Benoit)Yesterday at 7:31 PM
That dog almost knocked me out
You can’t realize the size of it until you see one in real life setting

UnrealYesterday at 7:32 PM
The fact is that a man-in-suit bear would require a big size to perform say at a circus – or be fearsome enough to eat men and women alive

Geris-(Benoit)Yesterday at 7:32 PM
Im 180 cm tall and that dog on two paws was bigger than me

GaiaYesterday at 7:33 PM
www.rover.com/blog/wp-content/…

rachelYesterday at 7:33 PM
ha!

Geris-(Benoit)Yesterday at 7:33 PM
en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kangal…
Kangal Shepherd Dog
The Kangal Shepherd Dog is a breed of large livestock guardian dog in Sivas. Historically the Anatolian Shepherd was treated as a separate breed by many canine registries, but this is now generally treated as part of the same breed population and the Turkish Kennel Club has r…

rachelYesterday at 7:33 PM
@Gaia, that one is getting bear like.

Geris-(Benoit)Yesterday at 7:34 PM

YouTube
Animal Watch
WOLF KILLERS – CAUCASIAN SHEPHERD VS TURKISH KANGAL

GaiaYesterday at 7:34 PM
yes, and it’s real. I think it’s Geris’s one

Geris-(Benoit)Yesterday at 7:34 PM
Different races

GaiaYesterday at 7:34 PM
i.pinimg.com/originals/95/9d/8…

Geris-(Benoit)Yesterday at 7:34 PM
But both “bear” like

GaiaYesterday at 7:34 PM
you don’t fuck with both of them

Geris-(Benoit)Yesterday at 7:35 PM
No you don’t
But when the dog knew you since it was a puppy it’s cool

GaiaYesterday at 7:35 PM
but in those areas still wolves and bears are abundant, so it only makes sense

Geris-(Benoit)Yesterday at 7:35 PM
My Friend dog still believe a headlock is a killer move
He never realized he was way stronger than me

UnrealYesterday at 7:36 PM

Ursula Böttcher and Alaska the Polar Bear at Circus Knie in 1984

Geris-(Benoit)Yesterday at 7:36 PM
Ah

rachelYesterday at 7:36 PM
ha

Geris-(Benoit)Yesterday at 7:36 PM
A local one,thanks
I might even have seen THAT bear as a kid

rachelYesterday at 7:37 PM
There’s no way you’d get away with a polar bear really.

UnrealYesterday at 7:38 PM
A polar bear sure is no dog

Geris-(Benoit)Yesterday at 7:38 PM
en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Circus…
Circus Knie
Circus Knie (German: Schweizer National-Circus Knie, French: Cirque National Suisse Knie) is the largest circus of Switzerland, based in Rapperswil.
The circus was founded in 1803 by the Knie family and has existed in its present form since 1919 when it changed from an open a…

A shady family ,the knie…

GaiaYesterday at 7:39 PM
Knie = knee
never heard that surname
Evel Knievel

rachelYesterday at 7:39 PM
@Unreal Nope, I’m not putting the dogs to any live performances, but for film stories, they can do things humans can’t.

GaiaYesterday at 7:39 PM
or how you write it

Geris-(Benoit)Yesterday at 7:39 PM
Only occurrence of it I know of is the circus
It’s not as far as I know a common name here
Like my family name is quite common for exemple

rachelYesterday at 7:40 PM
@Unreal You’ll notice there was nothing in shot that enabled us to actually size that bear. Just the continuity in our mind makes it appear to us the same size.

UnrealYesterday at 7:43 PM

I think we basically agree @rachel – which i kind of didn’t expect.

Actual bears (animal) is not commonly that big in size, and the oversized bears in the media are products of men-in-costumes who seemingly are able to perform to a very convincing degree – including eating, licking faces, bathing etc.

At least – it is clearly possible for men to play bears in a Circus without any common man noticing.

Hence my article :

Shooting Teddybears

allunreal.com/blog/shooting-te…

all unreal
unreal
all unreal | Shooting Teddybears – record bear dolls
The biggest bears in circuses or shot for the record books appear on closer inspection to be nothing else than animated teddybears – not real animals..


Also the similarities anatomically between some dogs and bears does tend to hint at a connection – and the possibility of using dogs for some of the necessary fake-bear material, cubs etc..

rachelYesterday at 7:51 PM
I know we’ve discussed it before, and I never thought you didn’t have valid research. It’s the grey area of acceptability.
If big bears do exist, they are capable of killing if they take a funny turn, then having them anywhere near the public becomes a problem. People at circuses go to be entertained, a man in a suit can be consistent, it’s the stuff on top, that’s the problem… BEAR ATTACK!

UnrealYesterday at 7:53 PM
Agree – the size of Circus bears therefore kill two birds with one stone : the bear is big enough to house one or two men, a bigger bear garner more fear and attention

rachelYesterday at 7:54 PM
yep

UnrealYesterday at 7:55 PM

This therefore becomes rather a big discovery – because the trick has been pulled off for so long, those in-the-know have just kept it going, providing all sorts of “proof” and culture around the big, grisly bears

Looking at the enormous bears living in various families just emphasize how commonplace it might be for those-in-the-know that big bears are played by actors.

We Share Our Home With 14 Bears
Beastly – 22 Jan 2018 – 1.7M views

www.youtube.com/watch?v=YNpCXG…

Family Live With 13 Bears In Their Backyard
Barcroft TV – 5 May 2015 – 671K views

www.youtube.com/watch?v=KyJE17…

YouTube
Beastly
We Share Our Home With 14 Bears | BEAST BUDDIES

YouTube
Barcroft TV
Family Live With 13 Bears In Their Backyard

rachelYesterday at 7:58 PM
As I say, who knows in the wild, and if they don’t now, they may well in the past.

UnrealYesterday at 7:59 PM
If you look at a film like “The Prestige”, the real trick is to live the lie – meaning nobody can see the real bear if not to dicover the fake.

rachelYesterday at 8:00 PM
Bears used to be native to the British Isles, apparently, but they were all hunted and killed, and this is like centuries ago. They might have been killed because they could kill and eat people.

UnrealYesterday at 8:03 PM

History is unreliable at best.

Suffice to say that the fake big-bear industry (if it exists as we might hypothize with Tim, Bart etc) would have to hide every real, big natural bear to keep up their show.

In that scenario, we still would face almost exclusively big-fake-bears regardless of these existing somewhere in nature or not. We would only know fake bears even if real ones existed.

Bear dancing in Old England

rachelYesterday at 8:14 PM
The Barcroft TV ones do seem real to me, or more, really don’t know to real.
We’ve talked about this before, and with regards to tv, I’m always of the view they just mix real and fake, they’ll edit in real animals from somewhere else entirely if needed. Or have real, then mix in fake to get a particular shot. That’s what makes it so hard, there is no one golden formula on how it is done.

UnrealYesterday at 8:16 PM
Barcroft TV bear looks as teddy-bear like as many others. The B&W images looks better in the footage, but that is always possible to edit to a high degree.

rachelYesterday at 8:18 PM
This one for example, in front of a stadium full of people, they are not going to risk a non-performing animal. They will have known exactly this was a fake bear they were hiring.

UnrealYesterday at 8:19 PM

Agree.

This might even have been a trial for the Russian world cup that got trashed

The troubling fact is that if Tim the bear is played by a man, then every other big bear just act and look too similar for them to be actual animals

rachelYesterday at 8:20 PM
Barcroft TV, I know what you mean, their fur seems too perfect.

UnrealYesterday at 8:21 PM

Yes – this seems to often be the case. The better bear-suits takes this more into account and introduce injuries & irregularities – just like 3d raytracing programs for photorealistic rendering

Also, the Barcroft TV bear doesn’t seem heavy. Those small feet on a 1000 pound bear would indent the soil.

rachelYesterday at 8:23 PM
I think the close-ups with the mouth are real, so…
It’s the trick, how do they do it?
I don’t know. Mix of real and fake if you ask me.

UnrealYesterday at 8:25 PM

Could be automation/animatronics head (mouth/eyes/ears)


YouTube
Clément Wintz
Animatronic Giraffe

When we see Tim the man-in-bear-suit, it is clear the human head is placed at the level of the neck, so the head would be some type of extension – probably possible to animate with mechanics


YouTube
daveiscool4
Bear plays Trumpet

You have looked into prosthetics in detail (@rachel) so you must have come across mechanic articulations that work well covered in silicone ?

Animatronic Gorilla Head
Lustre Effects – 29 Apr 2016 – 35K views

youtu.be/yO2kAkHWKlc?t=109

As for any technology, really advanced technology is owned and protected – Apple don’t open their lab to expose their best tech
YouTube
Lustre Effects
Animatronic Gorilla Head ?????????????…

rachelYesterday at 8:38 PM

UnrealYesterday at 8:39 PM
That is scary good…

rachelYesterday at 8:39 PM

still, so you can see just how real

YouTube
Wonder World
The World’s End – Most Realistic Animatronic Head

your one is a good one

UnrealYesterday at 8:42 PM
What is “new” with this technology is merely the computerized control – the silicone and mechanics could have been done the same ages ago. but it would have required manual operation.

rachelYesterday at 8:43 PM
yep

UnrealYesterday at 8:43 PM

And as in any slight of hand – maybe manual operation performs better…

Maybe the “robotics” just helps hide the manual performance level.

rachelYesterday at 8:46 PM
Plus the trainer. He is a distraction too.

OriginalsimulantYesterday at 8:47 PM
When I said these politicians and celebrities aren’t transvestites but are in fact robots did any one listen ? Nope.

UnrealYesterday at 8:47 PM
Indeed. Leonardo da Vinci (which i’m not sure existed) famously gave the french king an automated lion (1500s – if we are to believe history)

OriginalsimulantYesterday at 8:48 PM
It’s right in front of your eyes

rachelYesterday at 8:50 PM
Going by examples that survive, they were as intricate as pocket watch motions.

OriginalsimulantYesterday at 8:50 PM
Robots , puppets., models

rachelYesterday at 8:50 PM
yep
you know I’ve been doing a study of them, Russ

UnrealYesterday at 8:52 PM
Is that images of Russ?

rachelYesterday at 8:53 PM
ha

XyphusYesterday at 8:53 PM
Those are robots?

rachelYesterday at 8:54 PM
no, the babies are just dolls
but, you’d be hard pushed to know for sure

Geris-(Benoit)Yesterday at 8:55 PM
Expensive dolls

rachelYesterday at 8:55 PM
probably

OriginalsimulantYesterday at 8:55 PM
In time they’ll be cheaper

XyphusYesterday at 8:56 PM
Who the f would want a doll like that!
Creepy

rachelYesterday at 8:57 PM
It is a bit, but if you are faking a baby, well…

YouTube
Legacy Effects
GIANT ANIMATRONIC HEAD: SIEMENS Behind The Scenes – Legacy Effects

UnrealYesterday at 9:00 PM
That video does a good job of making us forget for how long and good prosthetics applied to a living, breathing person can look.

rachelYesterday at 9:01 PM
yep

UnrealYesterday at 9:02 PM
Nothing seems to be presented to us without some type of purpose or strategy
At least not openly
The limit is clearly the ability a common man will have himself

OriginalsimulantYesterday at 9:04 PM
just getting Data is an end all it’s own

rachelYesterday at 9:04 PM
Well, you know, I guess a lot of people who do this, it’s an art, they don’t actually get off on tricking people, so they are happy to give clues to people who are interested in looking.

UnrealYesterday at 9:05 PM
Siemens are not into art

rachelYesterday at 9:05 PM
No, but they hired the makers.

OriginalsimulantYesterday at 9:06 PM
stimulus – response

UnrealYesterday at 9:06 PM
Exactly – so there you have purpose & strategy

rachelYesterday at 9:09 PM
hmm

UnrealYesterday at 9:10 PM
When you do art on a brief from a client, your output will comply with the clients brief

OriginalsimulantYesterday at 9:10 PM
any old shit will do

rachelYesterday at 9:10 PM
Yep, @Unreal, and you don’t live with any moral problems your models might cause.
I’d go with latex on the arms to produce the green

this sort of thing on the face

UnrealYesterday at 9:18 PM

As latex is so versatile – if one needed to extend the face for imitating an ape, wouldn’t that be possible while still being able to move your face to animate silicone protrusions (needed for say an ape face) ?

Meaning there might not be a need for much mechanics to animate a bigger headshape

OriginalsimulantYesterday at 9:20 PM
very few people live with moral problems

UnrealYesterday at 9:20 PM
Religion ?

OriginalsimulantYesterday at 9:22 PM
pfffft

rachelYesterday at 9:22 PM
The thicker the build up of latex, the more apparent when someone smiles. Though probably not a problem for apes.

UnrealYesterday at 9:23 PM
Do bears smile much ?

rachelYesterday at 9:25 PM
different face shape

OriginalsimulantYesterday at 9:25 PM
smile for that marshmallow probably

rachelYesterday at 9:25 PM
ha
dummy

dummy

UnrealYesterday at 9:28 PM

Indeed – so the strategy might be a bit different.

The ideal from a performance point of view would be to have the acrobat-man-in-costume control a mask with his own facial muscles.

This would be better and more natural than any animatronics – and from what we can see of fake Circus bear Tim – it looks much like it is possible.

Or, the bear is animated by two small men – one doing the face, and one doing the movements.

rachelYesterday at 9:30 PM
or a third person controlling the mask remotely, like a plane.

OriginalsimulantYesterday at 9:31 PM
you know how they’d make Mr Ed smile ?

UnrealYesterday at 9:32 PM
Give him a marshmallow carrot ?

OriginalsimulantYesterday at 9:33 PM
yeah he’d get the carrot alright

rachelYesterday at 9:34 PM
ha

UnrealYesterday at 9:38 PM
I don’t think the man-in-bear costume rely on electric motion – circus big-bears have been around for over a century, so the trick animating Russian Tim the circus bear is not of modern tech, it is old and well proven – no flat batteries

rachelYesterday at 9:48 PM
Yep, I get you, that would be more for tv, film productions.

UnrealYesterday at 9:58 PM

Hereunder a video from bears at the Olympic Game Farm where the bear trainer of Teddy operates (Grizzly 1976).

youtu.be/IVJApevLoHc

video from Vice article: www.vice.com/en_us/article/ez3…

YouTube
Samson Lee
Awesome catch by the bear

GaiaYesterday at 10:42 PM
it is not only smiling, it is all kinds of body movements that you can never fully replicate (with good CGI it’s different, but men or dogs in suits will never be bears)

rachelYesterday at 10:56 PM
There is something odd about the bread.

How did he do that?

GaiaYesterday at 11:02 PM
what I meant; all the time his snout is not moving. It is as a whole, but not the movement of the lips and all the other muscles that a real bear would have

rachelYesterday at 11:04 PM
To be fair, I don’t think a man in a bear suit could do that, so there is a chance the bread goes out of shot when thrown, then something fake is added the bear end. IDK.

UnrealToday at 6:35 AM

Agree with you @rachel – fake-bear footage is part of the trick, so actions that can be enhanced post-production certainly would be done.

I do believe that one needs to look at fake-big-bears as a long-lasting trick – reminiscent of how Alfred Borden in the film “The Prestige” pulls off “transporting himself” (Borden is in reality not one man, but identical twins where one always wears disguise)

The Prestige – Borden has a new trick
DrAcetylcholine – 18 Feb 2010 – 178K views

www.youtube.com/watch?v=4V4tb3…

YouTube
DrAcetylcholine
The Prestige – Borden has a new trick

UnrealToday at 6:45 AM

In order to ensure the success of fake big-bears for the circus and public entertainment, the most important part would not be to perform the act, but to convince the public the big-bear is real.

The way to go about this would be to “discover” bigger bears than before and/or invent big bear subspecies (i.e. Grizzly, California Grizzly, Kodak bear) for men to take over their narrative and thus control according to man-in-suit prerequisites : behaviour, movement, reaction, expressions.

A real big bear would in this scenario be exactly like what we see at the circus and living in these fraudulent families as exposed above.

Naturally, one would need to introduce quite a bit of “amateur” material as well – in part preplanned when interacting closely with humans, and in part “real” by having public close but not actually as close as to touch, look at details etc.

Hereunder some “amateur” footage that looks made up with men in suits acting as if they are interested in a random car for no good reason other than for the camera filming inside recording this particular “event” or “attack” (car attack, go figure…)

Bears attack our car at Yellowstone
bird_ink – 18 May 2012 – 3.8M views

www.youtube.com/watch?v=z6BgkP…

YouTube
bird_ink
Bears attack our car at Yellowstone

Hereunder an attempt to illustrate how a man could be positionned inside the Barcroft TV bear seen above.

UnrealToday at 3:31 PM

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4 thoughts on “Big Grizzly thread

  1. Rachel

    I would also say, anyone wanting to see the still images and animated gifs in this discussion should follow the discord invite to the right. The discussion is in EGI, which also includes human related fakery.

  2. UnrealUnreal

    The drawback with Discord discussion is of course that it is unavailable on the internet and for internet searches*.

    On the topic of Grizzly bears in the media, i’ve just added a forum discussion to attempt to gather research on media-fakery in regards to Grizzly bear attacks on humans. Contrary to what one might think, there is abundancy of fakery connected to Grizzly bears.

    More Grisly Grizzlies
    fakeologist.com/forums/topic/m…

    *additionally, the instant nature of text-chat discussion also will encourage casual and non-topic inclusions that serve the instanteneity of humor and socialibility – in some instances this can be bewildering when merely taking interest in a topic-matter

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