Deaths on 911?

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    Hi Felix, that link you posted to Cuckfield Cosmos FC is the local soccer club.

    It’s the Rugby club that RE’s nephew (Charles Stephenson) plays for.
    The 2 different football codes share the same ground (Whitemans Green). Robert Eaton a big soccer fan, whilst his nephew a Rugby fan.

    Unfortunately the format of the Rugby Club’s web site has changed so am unable to access the player roster.

    With Charles Stephenson’s parents not living far from Matt Campbell. And the Stephensons likely knowing James Cranfield.

    Plus on Clues Forum the stuff I’ve posted about near by Ardingly College with their own masonic lodge for past Alumni.
    I think all these local net works are probably connected. Rugby being a sport played in the UK by the wealthier classes.



    Hi Felix, that link you posted to Cuckfield Cosmos FC is the local soccer club.

    It’s the Rugby club that RE’s nephew (Charles Stephenson) plays for.

    Yes I know – I thought it interesting that James’ son’s friend – no doubt tagging along with Dylan – was going to meet a 9/11 victim’s family. I wonder which one though – Eaton or Lariby?

    • This reply was modified 4 years, 11 months ago by xileffilex.

    I wanted to get onto the last of the Euro Brokers group of vicsims, Paul Gilbey There is a mass of information attesting to the existence of this only child and his fascinating network of friends, relationships, wives and children.
    Some of the entries are ultra genuine looking.
    However there are a couple of curious entries – one from Gwen Seagrave mee Millard from 2012 who must be very old. SHe and her husband ran a property company – perhaps let out houses for rent – in North London where the Gilbey family lived originally before escaping to South East Essex She says she knew the family, perhaps as landlords.

    Dear Paul,
    So many memories of you when you were little. Your mother Judy was a very good friend also your father Eddie. I feel so very sad for them. I have just come back from New York, visiting ground zero…
    Gwen Seagrave nee Millard, Rustington West Sussex

    Yes, those were his [deceased] parents. Gwendoline was married to John W Seagrave [1916 -1999]
    Director Richard Seagrave is her step son, John’s second wife. Violet E, nee Cooke, [1918-2005] was the first wife.

    Some of the tributes are from fellow workers in other broking businesses Paui worked for, eg

    September 13, 2012
    Early in my broking career Daisy took the time to help me understand the structured chaos of money markets – it was Fultons London 1985 and I never forgot this mans compassion. Rest Peacefully mate – Coz
    Simon Cosburn, Sydney! Australia

    Simon [b. 1961] is now in Chiang Mai, Thailand with a young family, with credible city broking employees such as Harlow, Tullett, Prebon, , Martin, Fulton, Cantor Fitzgerald…
    Robin Massey supports the Fulton connection.
    We also have a visit from Robin Clark [q.v.] on 9/11 2006
    Dear Paul,thinking of you today as ever..full of fun a dedicated Daddy and a great friend,God Bless.
    The most interesting one is this
    September 11, 2011
    Paul “Daisy” was a good friend of mine. I was actually with him the night before he died. It was my birthday and he insisted he wanted to take me out for a celebratory drink before I had dinner with my girlfriends. I remember when I said goodbye how hard it was raining outside, and he didn’t want me to leave. He made me laugh one last time with a cheeky joke and I told him I loved him and he told me he loved me. That was a real sense of comfort when I realized the next day he was gone. I really miss my friend. He used to cheer me up when I was down and was always up for a good time. I miss his wicked sense of humor, his mischievous smaile and his kind spirit. He used to talk about Hannah, Max and Mason all the time and how proud he was of them. He will never be forgotten.
    Mary Beth Kelley

    I can’t trace “Mary Beth” and this could be made up from available information as a means of putting Paul in a normal position immediately before 9/11, which I don’t believe. It looks scripted.

    [Hannah is his daughter from Paul’s first marriage. His two subsequent sons, Maxwell [now back in the UK] and Mason [at U of Colorado] don’t leave tributes. Jane Jones is her mother, Paul’s first wife. His second wife Tracy now lives in Nantucket, Massachusetts.

    Ingeborg Lariby also had a visitor to her Legacy page who attested to being with her the previous day…
    The day before the attack we marveled at seeing a thunderstorm roll past us up on the 93rd Fl, being in the clouds never got boring, we loved every day. The morning of the attack I happened to go up to our midtown office, we were exchanging emails at 8:30 am confirming we’d meet up at the Hard Rock cafe that night for a business networking event, her last words to me were “order a mojito for me”

    Since no office equipment came tumbling down the twin towers on 9/11 one can assume that either they weren’t there on the 93rd floor on 9/10 or they were on an empty floor.
    Paul Vincent Carter of Brigg dob May 1 1964 founded The Document House in Scunthorpe in 1992; resigned February 28 1997
    http :// ww

    Charlie Horne also drops by in 2007
    [sudden rush there…]
    I am reading my friend and former colleague, Paul Carter’s entry and sit in my office crying.
    Director Regus Business Centre 1999 – 2001 (2 years)


    to be continued…

    • This reply was modified 4 years, 11 months ago by xileffilex.

    Here’s a happy story in this sad thread.

    At 6:08 in the Euro Brokers fray video above, you can see Brian Clark on the phone. Luckily, he survived the gruesome terror attacks of 9/11.

    The whole Euro Brokers story is flaky, not least with the escapees.
    The “last man out” was allegedly from Euro Brokers
    September 12 2016
    Canadian citizen Ron DiFrancesco in the US on a “work visit”.

    Ron woke up in the hospital. There were burns to the great majority of his body. His contact lenses had melted to his eyes. It took years to recover. But he had made it. He was the last known survivor of the South Tower of the World Trade Center bombing. Since then Ron and his family have moved back to Canada
    If you say so, Ron. [who doesn’t mention any Euro Brokers “co-workers”

    Another escapee, beside Janice Brooks from the, er busy 84th floor was Paul McVeety
    who popped out on the first anniversary in 2002
    He was a friend of Cantor Fitzgerald victim, Robert Wayne Hobson
    McVeety, 32, was a groomsman at Hobson’s wedding and is himself an escapee from the 84th floor of the trade center’s south tower.
    …but we don’t have an escape story for McVeety.
    June 10, 2002
    Heeeey Buddy.
    Its been 9 months since we last spoke..It feels like an eternity.
    I think of you every day my friend.
    God Bless you Wayne.

    McVeety was at Euro Brokers 1992-2005

    McVeety also dropped by on Paul Gilbey’s legacy page
    December 07, 2001
    I thank you Daisy for over 6 years of friendship..I can’t begin to explain my sadness . Eurobrokers will never be the same without you.
    I will forever miss you my friend..
    God Bless You and your family..
    ~ Paul McVeety, Hoboken, New Jersey

    McVeety obviously worked with the above pair, but we can’t say where they were on 9/11.

    Hannah Gilbey went to the Sun for the 10th Annversary [she has half sisters Sophie and Abigail Jones]. Jane herself seems to have a new partner, Graeme Walker.

    9/11: Brit girl who grew up in the shadow of an atrocity

    9/11: Brit girl who grew up in the shadow of an atrocity

    “Mum had missed a call from America earlier that day and we fooled ourselves
    into thinking Dad was safe.”
    Hannah’s parents had divorced when she was a baby but her father remained an
    important part of her life, visiting and phoning her constantly. Their bond
    stayed strong even after he moved to New York.

    Now 21, Hannah has just become a parent herself and as the tenth anniversary
    of the atrocity approaches, she misses her dad more than ever.

    Since the attacks, Hannah –who now lives with 88-year-old grandma Vera –

    Aug 2002, aged 12
    “During the trip I met some of my dad’s colleagues who had managed to escape.They told me his office was covered in my paintings and that he talked about me all the time. I was so touched. I hadn’t expected him to care about my silly little drawings. One of Dad’s workmates, Janice, told me he helped her
    into the lift before the plane hit. She never saw him again.
    “Since then I’ve been told that in his final hours my dad was helping lots of people get out of the building safely.

    But only Janice has mentioned the fact.
    “The hardest thing for me is that they were unable to recover his body from
    the debris.
    “A year after the attacks I was sent some ashes from the ruins.

    Not body parts, note.

    More tributes at the Euro Brokers site

    Questions were even asked in the UK parliament about the status of the second Mrs Gilbey, Deena by MP David Amess, who was not a US citizen and it was alleged would be removed from the country against her wishes…

    <I received a letter just a few weeks ago from Mrs. Berenice Gould, who is the mother of Mrs. Gilbey. Mrs. Gilbey, the constituent of my hon. Friend the Member for Rayleigh, contacted him some considerable time ago.
    A short time after the tragedy, she was told to leave by the American authorities. Not only was she told that, but she was given no financial support. Even now, she has been given no financial support by the firm, Euro Brokers, for which her husband worked. She advised me last night that the only money that she has received has been from the Red Cross and United Way

    This gave the MP the opportunity to set out the official narrative of Paul’s demise.
    Maxwell is back in London, apparently and shows photos from Canary Wharf and a flat close to the Excel Centre.
    Both he and Mason make no reference to 9/11 or their father.

    As is obvious, all three, Deena and her sons became US citizens.
    Paul Stewart Gilbey was born on July 31 1962, an only child
    Recap –
    Deena Gilbey [nee Chisnall] is Paul’s second wife, m 1992. Their two children Max [Maxwell Thornton ] and Mason Masley Gilbey were born in the USA in 1999 and 1997 respectively. Hannah Jane Gilbey was born in 1990 to Paul’s first wife Jane, nee Page [m. 1987]
    Deena has a sister Derry who was for a time married to Neville Moore, and had two children Thea and Boyd in the early 1980s.
    Paul’s parents were Edward and Judith A Gilbey.
    Deena, b 1959 is friends with another Euro Brokers widow, the former wife of Clive Ian” Thompson

    Lucy Thompson Great photo as always Deena and love the hair!!
    11 November 2015 at 11:32
    Deena Gilbey Thanks guys 🙂 Im trying to make an album of my trip to Spain! Keep doing something wrong? I need Breezy!!! 🙂 xxx
    17 October 2013 at 18:11
    Deena Gilbey Ha ha!!! I just made a Spain 2013 album with nothing in it? Sad sad person! 🙂
    17 October 2013 at 18:14

    Incidentqally, the “visa problems” were sorted out, thanks to the Patriot act….July 22 2002
    [His work visa, however, applied to his wife only while he was alive.
    Paul Gilbey did not have a green card. He had applied for the residency permit in 1994, but had to restart the application process when he changed jobs]
    Paul and Deena first met in Hockley, Essex, when they were teenagers. ‘We’d been together since we were fourteen. We lived together for five years and been married nine when he died.’

    hmmmmm, this misses out the 5 years of marriage to Jane Page, allegedly.
    I spent a lot of time talking to my friend Lucy Thompson who lives in Summit (a neighbouring town) whose husband, Ian, worked with Paul. We would call each other in the early hours to see if there was any news of either of them. We pretty much decided that they were together because they were such good friends’ Deena’s is composed but her eyes give lie to that composure. ‘Lucy was still hopeful right until the Sunday that Ian would be found. ‘I’m not giving up hope.’ she would say ‘Are you hopeful?’ Deena gives a strange smile ‘ ‘Not anymore.’ I told her ‘He would have been home – it was now Friday – had he been able, he would have called. I just knew he hadn’t made it’
    Her family was on the other side of the world. ‘My mother wasn’t able to get in because all the airports were closed but when she finally got in it was so upsetting to her, she had to go home again.
    Three other children at Maxwell’s school had also lost their fathers

    From 2006, local press in Southend-on-Sea, UK
    Hannah Gilbey, 16, of Elm Road, Shoebury, still wears her dad Paul’s ring and says she will never stop missing him
    Mr Gilbey was born in London and grew up in Hockley.
    He had worked in London until 1992 when he moved to New York, where he lived with second wife Deena and their sons Maxwell and Mason. Hannah stayed in Shoebury with her mum, Jane Jones, who had been Mr Gilbey’s first wife, but Mr Gilbey kept in touch.

    Has Deena moved?
    68 Goldfinch drive Nantucket built 2005
    sold 7/8/2016 August 7 2016

    • This reply was modified 4 years, 11 months ago by xileffilex.

    hmmm Paul McVeety sure has a lot of BGC shares –
    [he also posts a tribute on another site, that of “lost” Cantor worker, Kevin Hannaford]
    in 2008, McVeety had before, unloading, 119,193 shares – not quite in the Howard Lutnick league

    McVeety appears as “safe, home, 9/13/2001 here

    House purchase, Boxing Day 2002 $875,000
    Paul M. McVeety ’92 – Director of Interest Rate Derivatives, BGC Partners

    married 1999

    • This reply was modified 4 years, 11 months ago by xileffilex.

    Hi Felix

    Yes I know – I thought it interesting that James’ son’s friend – no doubt tagging along with Dylan – was going to meet a 9/11 victim’s family. I wonder which one though – Eaton or Lariby?

    Read more:

    It would have to be Eaton (or maybe even Campbell) if it was Lariby it would involve a trip to Spain.

    Did you see my post on Lets Roll. The President of Haywards Heath Rugby Club being Sir Nicholas Soames, grandson of Churchill.

    Click to access ICpHIdzdRme9zZNVXchm_HAYWARDS%20HEATH%20RFC%202016%20NOMINATION%20FORM%20PDF.pdf

    Just a quick look at his Wiki page and he seems to have benefited from 9/11.

    US multinational professional services, risk management and insurance brokerage firm Marsh & McLennan Companies Inc has given Soames £518,069 since 2010 in remunerations for his services as an MP.

    Soames moonlights from his job as MP for Mid-Sussex by working for private security company Aegis Defence.
    Aegis pays Soames £105k a year — more than he gets as an MP.
    Founded by infamous mercenary Tim Spicer, Aegis made most of its money as one of the prime security contractors in Iraq.
    Soames voted for the Iraq war and then went on to work for one of the companies that profited from the occupation. Soames is richer, but Iraq is poorer.

    • This reply was modified 4 years, 11 months ago by antipodean. Reason: fix up quotations

    Just a quick look at his Wiki page and he seems to have benefited from 9/11.

    US multinational professional services, risk management and insurance brokerage firm Marsh & McLennan Companies Inc has given Soames £518,069 since 2010 in remunerations for his services as an MP.

    It seems more than coincidental, this Sussex connection
    November 24 2015
    Soames:This morning I was in Paris with President Hollande discussing how we can work together to defeat the evil of ISIL. As the murders on the streets of Paris reminded us so starkly, ISIL is not some remote problem thousands of miles away. It is a direct threat to our security at home and abroad. It has already taken the lives of British hostages and carried out the worst terrorist attack against British people since 7/7 on the beaches of Tunisia, to say nothing of the seven terrorist plots right here in Britain that have been foiled by our security services over the past year.
    LOL! A licence to print money.

    I just remembered another “night before” vicsim cover story, that of 9/11 insider Peter Field [not the same Peter Field, current Lord Lieutanant of East Sussex!] who supplied the Windows on the World Risk conference and 16 vicsims to the 9/11 narrative

    The night before, I had been at dinner with two other colleagues from London, Michele du Berry and Sarah Prothero, and we wanted Simon to join us, but his flight from London had been delayed and our calls to his hotel proved fruitless.

    Simon Turner, an director, was also reported to have died on 9/11. He was reported to be an ex-Army officer whose wife Elizabeth was seven months pregnant.
    William Simon Turner b. 2001 [4] mother Elizabeth Rachel, nee Siddle. who, as a life-coach, co-founded Ulife Limited in 2008 [dissolved in 2012] with Kevin Watson of Swansea but previously of The Old School, Heyford, Oxfordshire and Jan Taylor of the Rusty Anchor Guest House, Plymouth.
    Kevin and Suzanne Watson continue with My Life Coach Ltd
    All real people.
    The other directors are found here
    Turner replaced Mark Robert Bramald Kemp, a lucky escape for him… what does he say? Two other directors appointed shortly before 9/11 were
    Celine Connell of Dublin and Anthony James Gibson of Epsom.

    Elizabeth Turner has her own web site where she brings up Simon and 9/11
    I found myself in a place where my normal had gone and I had to completely rebuild my life from scratch – I had changed, my life had changed and I had to create a new future and a positive way forward.
    In the last ten years, I have had to deal with grief, trauma, becoming a mum, being a single parent, individual financial and legal issues, a high level career and intensive media interest. I had enormous life changes and I handled all of this because I was introduced to life coaching & Reiki healing, developing my awareness, intuition and responsibility for my own life.
    Before Life 2, as I call it, I had gained extensive commercial experience in KPMG, Wallis and Channel 4 Television Limited as a senior HR professional. I was involved in change management, delivered strategic HR solutions, designed and created personal development programmes and coached individuals and teams to achieve improved performance.

    and her book, “The Blue Skies of Autumn”
    endorsed by Gill Hicks…

    Another one of the “Risk Waters 16” was David Rivers
    Rivers was a real person who apparently was cajoled by Dennis Waters to join Risk Waters
    His story is supported in this 1991 NYT article
    David Rivers, the executive editor of FX Week, a newsletter for currency traders.


    The Risk Waters conference story is an important part of the official narrative.
    The company has dismantled its legacy site, which no longer links to the “victims”.
    one is directed back to
    Some can be found separately, [see list below] e.g.
    Peter Field, the key name at Risk Waters and in this deception washed his hands of the event on the first anniversary, and indeed left Risk Waters in 2003
    link – ht tp://ww m/2002/09/11/us/circumstances-citizens-of-the-world-on-time-for-a-meeting-in-harm-s-way.html

    Its chief executive, Peter Field, who was in New York that day, has written eloquently about Sept. 11 on the company’s Web site. But he no longer wants to talk about it: ”My feeling is that I can’t face going through this all again,” Mr. Field said in declining to be interviewed.

    As the first plane hit, Mr. Field, who was running late, emerged from the subway. He was the only person who had flown from the London office to survive

    I think that tells us all we need to know about that “conference”.

    just to recap:

    The 16 Risk Waters staff are:
    Michele Beale (née du Berry), Director of Conferences
    Oli Bennett, Staff Writer, Risk magazine
    Paul Bristow, Conferences Producer
    Neil Cudmore, Sales Director, Waters magazine
    Sarah Ali Escarcega , Freelance Marketing Consultant
    Elisa Ferraina, Senior Conferences Sponsorship Co-ordinator
    Amy Lamonsoff, Events Manager, North America
    Sarah Redheffer (née Prothero), Conferences Operations Manager
    David Rivers, Editorial Director, Waters magazine
    Laura Rockefeller, Freelance Delegate Co-ordinator
    Karlie Rogers, Divisional Sponsorship Manager
    Simon Turner, Publishing Director
    Celeste Victoria, Conferences Telesales Executive
    Joanna Vidal, Event Co-ordinator
    Melanie de Vere, Publisher, Waters Reference Products
    Dinah Webster, Advertising Manager

    Simon Turner is an interesting case, as noted previously.
    Although he had moved on to greater things within the company, becoming a board director in February 2001, Simon was key to the growth of EPRM.
    In August 1995 he became advertising managing of Energy Risk – the newsletter that preceded EPRM magazine. The following five years saw EPRM grow rapidly from a newsletter to a formidable monthly magazine. During that time Simon, who had since become publisher, recruited much of the team that still works for the magazine today.
    All the while, Simon’s enthusiasm, warmth and energy encouraged, inspired and motivated those around him and helped EPRM achieve higher and higher levels of success with each year.
    EPRM’s success was mirrored by that of the company and in June 1999 Risk Publications acquired Waters Information Services. Simon was instrumental in integrating both businesses, and this led to his next role as publishing director of Waters. He remained an associate publisher of EPRM, and was never short of supportive words and suggestions to the magazine’s staff.

    As the chaplain at the HAC [Honourable Artillery Company] says: “I am sure that wherever Simon is now he will have already arranged the first cocktail party.”

    The current Risk Waters victims’ page is here, merely a list of names.

    Remembering our colleagues from Risk Waters Group who lost their lives on September 11, 2001

    Let’s have a closer look at Simon Turner and his family

    • This reply was modified 4 years, 11 months ago by xileffilex.

    Felix I re visited a post I’d made on Clues Forum about EPRM.

    It included a link to some archived material about EPRM, most of the links to other archived pages from the archived page still work.


    Felix I re visited a post I’d made on Clues Forum about EPRM.

    It included a link to some archived material about EPRM, most of the links to other archived pages from the archived page still work.

    Indeed, Risk Waters and its affiliates was a significant player in the deception and supplied sixteen high level deaths. One of its own even says [before he busied himself as a candidate in a General Election campaign] when the correct answer to an honest inquiry would have been, “sorry we are closed those days of your conference owing to controlled demolition”

    The secret with these real “victims” is to keep the number of photos from the pre-digital age to a minimum.
    This is Simon Turner

    which occurs at the 9/11 family UK site
    and the family announcements page
    where there is a curious tribute…
    Phil Turner

    08 February 2009

    My best friend, I miss you everyday, God Bless you and your son William and his mother Elizabeth. We will always remember you, I still laugh about the chair dance and I still cry for you. Phil
    This is no blood relative the way it reeads…and Phil uploads an image of the new WTC in 2013 to the slimmest of slim Legacy pages

    Phil is real, alright, he’s a facebook friend of “widow” Elizabeth
    but he ignores 9/11 and doesn’t make a single tweet on 9/11

    However Phil did post in 2014 and 2015 uploading the same photo…
    some other people who knew Simon commenting, one apparently ignorant of what happened on 9/11 – Janet Ramsden-Smith. The others, Di Breen and Jane Campaigne appear aware if not in the loop.

    The Stockport/Manchester connection is supported here from 2005

    Simon Turner, 39, who grew up in Heaton Moor, Stockport, and attended Mile End School, was hosting a conference on the 106th floor of the World Trade Center’s North Tower in New York, when the first plane struck. but without an obvious birth record. Phil says his parents ran a restaurant..[obviously in the Stockport area]
    In a 2002 Standard article we read:
    Simon was born in London and joined the King’s Troop Royal Horse Artillery at 18. After three years he left the Army, although he remained a member of the Honourable Artillery Company, part of the Territorial Army, and moved swiftly up the corporate ladder.. Perhaps he was adopted?

    This 33 minute audio clip from 2011 with Elizabeth Turner is still available, as she is taken over the jumps by the onside interviewer Nicky Campbell.

    Another item from the same burst of stories in 2011

    Elizabeth seems now to have moved to the outskirts of Bishops Stortford at Thorley to continue her conselling business in partnership with one David Osborn

    who emerges from nowhere with little history.

    Some officials of the charity Simon&Us set up after 9/11 are here


    There’s a wedding video at the start of this video about Michael J Cunningham of Euro Brokers. His wife wants Liam to grow up British as well as American..

    check the ID card “recovered” from Ground Zero at 5.44

    The comment below by Bernie Briffa is credible

    Another member of the family – Liza nee Bolton [Elizabeth Lillian] married to brother Andrew Thomas Cunningham b 1967, friends with Hannah and Michael’s wife Teresa, who runs Auction Direct Flowers (Retail) Ltd with younger brother Paul of Salisbury

    I am currently studying a Fine Art Degree (BA Hons) at OCA part time which I am really loving! I also have two children and live with my husband and family in Farnham. We moved out of London eleven years ago where I worked as a PA secretary for many years in various companies. My husband and I lived and worked abroad in New York and Sydney for approx four years before returning to England where we decided to have a family.

    Andrew’s post from 9/11 2016

    • This reply was modified 4 years, 11 months ago by xileffilex.

    Lets keep looking at these real people who disappeared after 9/11
    David Rivers of Risk Waters was married to Ricky Vider Rivers, editor of Allure Magazine in 1996


    On 1 January 2015, her father-in-law, David Rivers’ father died, Thomas Ellis Rivers Jr. of Chilmark, Martha’s Vineyard, Massachusetts.

    Thomas Ellis Rivers Jr.

    Tom is survived by his loving wife Barbara, his daughter Diane Dow Rivers of Sarasota, Fla., his daughter-in-law Ricky Vider Rivers of New York City, his brother-in-law John F. O’Brien of Harrison, N.Y., two grandsons, two nephews, and one niece. He was predeceased by his son, David Ellis Rivers, who was killed in the World Trade Center attack on Sept. 11, 2001.
    What’s Ricky up to now? Well, she was in Tel Aviv in 2008…
    htt p://ww

    by Henry Alford
    I’m riding bikes along the beach with my friend James. James is 12, and moved to Tel Aviv from New York with his Israeli mother two years ago.

    I contacted James’s mother, the former fashion editor Ricky Vider….A single mother — Ms. Vider lost her husband, James’s father, on 9/11 — she says she moved back to Tel Aviv with her son because “I needed some sunshine and a change”; the move also put her back in close proximity to her mother and sister…. She says, “James and I are only here temporarily…I ask James if he wants to stay in Tel Aviv or move back to New York, and he says: “I want both. When I think of the surfing, I want to be here. But most of my friends are in New York.”
    I wonder where dad is…

    Ricky and James

    Michele Nichols Sulter has also posted for her friend Sarah Redheffer nee Prothero [another of the Risk Waters “Sixteen”. Michele dropped in at Fakeologist briefly last year. Come back and tell us more, Michele.
    Michele Nichols Sulter
    11 September at 20:01 ·
    Here’s cheers to a very special woman, an irreplaceable friend, miss you with every breath … Can’t believe it has been Fifteen years. Rest is Peace, my darling Sarah Prothero Redheffer
    and at Legacy…
    September 12, 2016
    Cheers mate, feels like yesterday. xoxox
    Michele Nichols, Ballina [Australia]

    Last year on 9/11/2015 we were treated to a photo of “Sarah!” There must be more in Michele’s cache

    Michele Nichols Sulter
    4 October 1997 · Edited · ·
    Sarah! — with Jan Jensen Davis in Chicago, Illinois.

    • This reply was modified 4 years, 11 months ago by xileffilex.

    Now for a more obscure real UK “death” Christopher Newton-Carter
    Birth registered 1949 in Hampstead, London.

    Photo displayed on September 17 2001…
    Among the hundreds of pictures posted at the Families of Missing Persons’ Centre in Manhattan yesterday was a photograph of Chris Newton-Carter, a 52-year-old merchant banker from north London who has been living in New Jersey with his wife Susan.

    Interesting, no probate or administration listed.
    Here’s Sue, in 2014 whom he married on 22nd August 1992
    September 9, 2014
    Darling Chris,
    I still miss you so much and wish you were here in New Jersey with us. I am so grateful that I have such wonderful memories of my time spent with you. You were a wonderful brother and I love you so much.
    Your ever loving sister. Teresa xox

    Another early report from the Mail in 2001
    A banker, he was on the phone to his brother Mark in Scotland as the airliner smashed into the south tower.
    Mr Newton-Carter, who was on the 104th floor, said: ‘Oh my God, the building is shaking, we have got to get out of here.’
    Mark Newton-Carter runs the Findhorn Bay Caravan Park, near Forres, Morayshire. [Northern Scotland]
    Last night a colleague there told how Christopher had been telling his brother to let his mother know he was safe when the second plane struck the World Trade Centre.

    Jo Allen said that, like so many relatives desperately seeking news of missing loved ones, Mark Newton-Carter has now posted a picture of his brother on the Internet.
    She added: ‘Mark is very upset. He has not heard from Christopher again. He is on his way down to London to be with his mother Linda.
    ‘I understand both he and his sister Teresa were over in New York to visit Christopher just a couple of weeks ago.’
    The missing man worked for investment bankers, Sandler O’Neill and Partners.

    There’s pretty strong school evidence of Chris at Beaumont and Stonyhurst schools.

    Teresa is now Teresa Danko, friend of sister Susan and lives now in Princeton, NJ, having married [2nd] Keith M Danko in 1988. [first marriage to Randall W David in 1983] Katya was born in the UK in 1991.

    Mark’s eulogy from the 2001 memorial service is reproduced in the Beaumont College school newsletter with a photo

    Click to access news-winter-2013.pdf

    There is memorial Newton-Carter race at Stonyhurst school, which he subsequently attended.

    Click to access SUMMER%20REVIEW%2016.pdf

    Plenty of evidence there.

    At the 10th Anniversary event in New York
    his sister Teresa read his name out at Ground Zero.
    “We love you and miss you and you will be in our hearts forever,” she said. Her crisp, clear English accent rang out in a day of almost unbearable poignancy.

    One connection is with the Newby family
    September 11, 2002
    I can still hear his laugh.
    love to all the Newton-Carter’s.
    Paige Newby, Providence, RI

    [now PhD in Geology from Brown]
    Teresa is friends with Simon Newby [Sheffield University UK] of Providence, RI
    enjoys returning home to England with his adult son and daughter to visit family and old friends
    My guess is that perhaps Simon D.J. Newby is an old school chum, also born 1949, in Suffolk. Alex is his daughter born 1978 Page [sic] nee Carlin is Simon’s wife, m 1974.

    Mark is still in Scotland, now Perthshire where his wife Shelley writes a blog


    Before he went quiet on 9/11, Mark Newton-Carter aired his opinions on the first anniversary
    who already
    “had enough of memorial services. On Wednesday he will turn his back on St Paul’s Cathedral in London and return to his isolated home near Findhorn in Scotland and quietly remember his brother, Christopher, who perished in the World Trade Centre.

    “Before he went to America, 16 years ago, we were like two peas in a pod. We didn’t really need anybody else. We went everywhere together, best mates.”

    He says he thinks about his brother every day. He still talks to him, asking his advice, wondering what he would make of such and such a situation.
    “I cannot believe this year has gone so fast…

    In some ways I’m trying to bring Chris back….

    “There was no funeral; there’s nothing to bury,” he says….

    “Occasionally I feel rage towards Osama bin Laden. It is momentary…”


    Only tribute post was also from 2002, a rather narrative tribute at that
    ….He came to Scotland for the first time only weeks prior to the tragedy,….. hmmm
    plus a photo

    • This reply was modified 4 years, 11 months ago by xileffilex.

    Mark Newton-Carter says:
    June 30, 2010 at 3:47 pm
    For you and any of your viewers, I am the webmaster for a Scottish Highlad [sic] Estate called Bamff in Perthshire, (not to be confused with Banff in North East Scotland). The Ramsay’s [sic] who have owned the estate for generations have done much to offer a fantastic opportunity to wildlife photographers. The emphasis here is on natural heritage, conservation and natural habitat rather than any commercial venture. Take a look at the website – – initially to see what’s on offer. The estate can be visited year round, the light in autumn, winter and early spring being a gift to any photographer looking for that difference. Accomodation is available there for extended visits.

    Mmm very nice. “The Hideaway” accommodation…

    very discreet
    Now here’s a funny coincidence – George Monbiot cites Mark Newton-Carter on September 18 2001…

    The Need for Dissent

    Mark Newton-Carter,whose brother appears to have died in the terrorist outrage, told one of the Sunday newspapers, “I think Bush should be caged at the moment. He is a loose cannon. He is building up his forces getting ready for a military strike. That is not the answer. Gandhi said: ‘An eye for an eye makes the whole world blind’ and never a truer word was spoken.”

    Feral offspring, Pony extraction and Rewilding

    Posted by Louise Ramsay
    I’ve been away from home, taking in a bit of the Edinburgh Book Festival where I heard the very inspiring George Monbiot speak about his wonderful new book on rewilding, “Feral”, which give favourable mention to the Tay Beavers.

    Funny old world.

    From this source Remembering 9/11 by V. Seidler, p.80

    we can see that Christopher studied computer science at Sheffield University, hence his siblings’ friendships with the Newby family. His removal to New York in the mid 1980s explains the lack of UK probate, he married in the US in 1992 and setup home in NJ.
    Saturday 15 September 2001
    Mark Newton-Carter, displaying a remarkable forgiveness,….Mr Newton-Carter always talks of his brother in the present tense but occasionally the guard slips and the sneaking suspicion his brother is probably dead creeps into conversation.

    • This reply was modified 4 years, 11 months ago by xileffilex.
    • This reply was modified 4 years, 11 months ago by xileffilex.
    • This reply was modified 4 years, 11 months ago by xileffilex.

    Mark has his own website, and has recently uploaded a whole page of images of his brother

    Mum’s The Word!

    Chris My Brother

    where one finds a 1967 photo of Chris Newton-Carter in his school running team [bottom right]

    Where did Mark, two years younger, go to school? [his sister was born in 1954]
    Incidentally we can observe here that Paige Carlin, friend of Chris, is American, from Miami and grew up in Houston [but married in the UK Welsh borders]

    Chris’s sister’s FB page
    and Mark’s

    • This reply was modified 4 years, 11 months ago by xileffilex.

    Phil Jayhan, 10 years ago…

    The idea is simple enough. Many of the helpers/planners of this conspiracy simply put themselves on the flight lists of the four doomed jets, and then start out a new life afterward under different assumed names.

    and many more were placed into the various companies allegedly with “offices” in WTC1/2 and then start out a new life afterward under different assumed names


    Not all the UK citizens’ recorded “deaths” on 9/11 were of the professional/university/banking/broking class. Cue Andrew J Bailey
    son of post war West Indian immigrant parents from Jamaica , one of many who settled in the major UK connurbations throughout the 1950s and 1960s, these in Birmingham. Many of these settlers had relatives in the US and some families moved between the UK and the US and the West Indies during the offspring’s childhood.

    The births are all recorded in black and white on contemporary hard copy at Kew. [references refer] as well as being transcribed online.
    There’s an elaborate modern memorial with awful “soul” music here

    Marriage – 1966 [3] Vincent H Bailey to Aloma T Moncrieffe , ref 9c 1473

    Paula Virginia Bailey b 1967 [1]
    Christine Louise Bailey b 1969 [3] Ref 9c 403
    Andrew James Bailey b 1972 [2] Ref 9c 3003 [Apr 20, 1972]
    Corresponding with the potted history at forevermissed, which has a selection of photos of Andrew [just a selection below]

    Other tributes from nieces Sherise Aloma Williams b 1994 and Serena Andrea Williams b 2005 [daughters of Paula]

    The daughter Veronica was born c. 1993
    In a 2000 Vincent H Bailey married a Pearlita C Beckford, now known as Beckford-Bailey.
    and they still reside in Nechells.

    There is unsurprisingly no probate listed for Andrew Bailey.

    There are some possibly connected transactions involving 1200 E 98 ST NY, whereupon the joint ownership was transferred from Baldwin and Jocelyn Douglas to Baldwin Douglas and Aloma T Bailey in 1996, with a mortgage of $165,000.00

    The mortgage was satisfied in 2005 when the property was sold for $390,000.00 [now Aloma Douglas]

    MR BALDWIN DOUGLAS of Cane Grove [St Vincent, West Indies] died on Friday 26th August at the age of 75


    Perhaps coincidental.

    Often local newspapers have more detail – from the 10th anniversary
    Father-of-one Andrew Bailey, 29, woke up screaming on September 9 and told his fiancée that he had seen the Grim Reaper in a nightmare.
    Two days later the security supervisor, originally from Solihull, was among 3,000 people killed when terrorists flew hijacked planes into the World Trade Centre in New York.
    Now fiancée Miosotys Fernandez has given her first interview about her lost love on the tenth anniversary of the atrocity – and revealed Andrew’s chilling premonitions.
    “On September 9 he woke up in the middle of the night screaming,” recalled the mum-of-three, from Rhode Island.

    Oh really?

    Miosotys, 39, met Andrew in 1999 in the North Tower where she worked on the visitor desk and he was employed as a security boss for insurance brokers, Marsh & McLennan


    soon afterwards the Midlander moved into his new love’s apartment in Queens, where she lived with her three young daughters, Cassandra, Brittany and Crystal.
    Andrew’s own daughter Veronica, who was eight at the time and lived in the US with his ex-wife, also visited her dad at weekends.
    Miosotys added: “He also spoke about his family back home in the West Midlands a lot and he loved them very much. He hoped one day to take us all as a family to visit them for a vacation.”
    In May 2001 Andrew popped the question and the couple planned to wed on December 19 of that year at City Hall.

    ‘‘But as I started dialling his number I heard a terrible screeching noise above my head.
    “I looked up and watched in horror as the first plane hit the tower. There was debris everywhere and I started screaming.

    …like everybody else did…LOL!
    As both towers collapsed Miosotys raced through the streets, trying to escape the falling debris. She finally found her way through the ash clouds to her sister’s workplace.

    This is BS

    Just a few days later she was asked to find personal items belonging to Andrew which would contain his DNA….

    Six months later she received confirmation that Andrew had, in fact, perished.
    “His ex-wife called me up to break the news,’’ she said. ‘‘I felt relief. I had to set him free. I had to move on and be happy.”
    Ten years on and Miosotys has found love again and is now engaged to Ruben Santiago, 34.

    Photo taken at 10PM, 9/10/2001, no less. Today it would have gone up as a selfie on Facebook.

    The guy’s real, the story’s BS.

    What’s on the legacy page?
    It took Paula 9 years to check in there.
    Aloma “Bailey” checks in in 2007 from Brooklyn NY.

    Miosotys’ daughters have the name Turner, lived at Westerly Rhode Island now Groton CT

    Why would Miosotys mis-spell her name? It’s not credible

    “Married with four daughters”

    Perhaps this is Miosotys, found on a cache of an online dating agency,

    Was online more than a week ago Myosotis, Westerly, RI
    August 13 2016

    An interesting source from 2002

    [Miosotys Fernandez] and her three daughters later quit their basement apartment in Jamaica for a relative’s home in Rhode Island because they couldn’t take hearing about the attacks anymore.

    Meanwhile, her girls, Cassandra, age 12, Brittany, 9, and 4-year-old Crystal had a tough time coping with the loss of the man they came to view as family.
    “I never really grieved for him,” Fernandez recalled. “With everything that was going on, there was all of this anger building up inside.”

    …the company Fernandez worked for, Unique Security, didn’t resume operations and she was out out of work

    She and Bailey had planned to move to Rhode Island after their wedding, so when a relative offered part of her home in the town of Westerly, Fernandez accepted.
    Instead of finding peace of mind in shady suburbia, however, Fernandez realized she couldn’t avoid her grief for long and decided to get professional help. A counselor now comes every week to the Fernandez home.
    [These are the handlers]
    A turning point came after authorities found Bailey’s body in April. “From September to April, it was just pure hell. I was looking at every news article, wondering where in that mess he was. After they found him, it really hit me that he was gone. It was finally time to stop crying,” she recalled.
    Since then, Fernandez has been putting her life back together. She got a job at Foxwoods Casino in nearby Connecticut, and started attending church regularly….

    here’s the family group again
    “sister” Crystal bears the name Mangual, whose father Carlos A Mangual b 11/15/68 – apparently died 2/16/16 aged 47….apparentlyy

    hmmm a complicated set-up.


    I’d say it would be pretty easy to disappear.
    Here’s Andrew Bailey’s daughter who is only connected to the mother of another visitor to Andrew’s legacy page, Devin Anthony Moncrieffe of Apopka, FL. but from Brooklyn NY who studies criminal justice [hmmm….] at UCF and who describes Andrew as his cousin, [obviously through Andrew’s mother]
    He describes Veronica as his cousin and Aila as his aunt. [who she?]

    Anthony Moncrieffe’s mother is called Michele Rosario

    who is friends with Veronica Bailey
    who gives little away aside from being from Jersey City and living in Staten Island

    Alia is actually another visitor to the legacy site, ~ Aila, Bayonne, New Jersey and is Aila Benitez

    who uploaded an image of Andrew on 9/11 “the photo” – she must have more, surely?

    and Veronica on the left

    Miosatys, seen here with Brittany Turner, seems curiously silent – but her sister @deegio is Damarys Fernandez possibly also of Florida.

    • This reply was modified 4 years, 11 months ago by xileffilex.
    • This reply was modified 4 years, 11 months ago by xileffilex.
    • This reply was modified 4 years, 11 months ago by xileffilex.

    One more tribute – from Alex Moncrieffe
    my name is alex moncrieffe and andrew was my cousin. i only met him once when i was a young boy when he was visiting from the us. me and family recently visited ny and my aunt, andrews mother. andrew will always be dearly missed and is thought about everyday, so in someways i guess he is still with us.
    You might not be too far off there, Alex.

    Alex [b. 1985] has a sister Natalie Louise, b 1982
    who is friends with Aila Benitez, the mother of Veronica, whose father was Andrew Bailey [see above] and Aloma Bailey, Andrew’s mother, aka Tessa. [no location or 9/11 tribute provided or mentioned]

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