Jesse Owens and the 1936 Olympics

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  • #172469
    rgos
    Participant

    killed: [positions 3,4,7,11]

    Those numbers should be in bold, as per the Fakeologist Style Guide:

    killed: [positions 3,4,7,11]

    #172508
    rgos
    Participant

    And as to spacing out:

    #172579
    xileffilex
    Participant

    More damage from the anti-trouser bomb:

    from about 6:00 here

    #172847
    Blue Moon
    Participant

    Don’t forget this piece of Nazi agitprop- http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Johann_Georg_Elser

    #172960
    Tom Dalpra
    Participant

    Don’t forget this piece of Nazi agitprop-

    Ah, yes. Excellent. Esler – that lone would-be assassin – must get to him. Always good to have a carpenter for a fit-up job.
    And indeed, good to have you (Blue [and Peter] on the thread).
    🙂

    I’ve just got to talk about those trousers first. Oh those trousers.
    As a man, I do think your trousers are quite important.

    Hitler’s blown-up trousers.
    fd

    First up, here we see what look like cartoon blown-up trousers.
    There’s straight cuts as-if done with scissors. Not really convincing.
    It reminded me of this guy from the Madrid bombing.
    fd

    ”Ha, ha ha! You’re trapped in the 40’s Rapha, we all know that up=to-date
    blown-up trousers look like this!”

    fd

    Now secondly here, let’s take a look at the SIZE of those trousers.
    I took a double take. I had to look it up again. Hitler was 5’7″ tall and of medium build. There’s no escaping it, these trousers look like they’re Oliver Hardy’s not Hitler’s.
    fd

    Unless this guy’s 5 ft nothing and he’s got long arms…
    It’s the length of them more than anything. What’s the odds that in those relatively early days of photo-propaganda, it was thought wise to go and get a big pair of trousers so that the point could be clearly made and they wouldn’t get lost on the big screen. Make sure of the point.

    ”Get a little guy and get a nice big pair of trousers.” could be the brief.

    Looking at it, my de-brief would be. ” I know I said big, but I didn’t mean that fuckin’ big”
    Still, it did the job very well at the time and for a long time after that, I’m sure.
    ds

    In the UK, we have a common expression. ”This place looks like a bomb’s hit it’, in reference to somewhere untidy.

    This place ‘looks like a bomb’s hit it’, in that general sense of the word, but this open-palmed image, showing us, and the other rgos posted, from the same angle (and time-period) is all I can easily find.
    fd

    What can we tell from that…?
    I dunno. Right now, I’m looking at those trousers and thinking ”Well it could be perspective on the size, but those cuts? The trousers are a prop. If they’re a prop, the whole things got to be in question.” But it’s an open question still.

    Some of you may well be way ahead of me here, but I’ve never really looked at this incident with the perspective I have these days. I was a little traumatised ( in a small way) by the ugly details of the reprisals. It always seemed such a shame Hitler wasn’t blown up. I grew up thinking that, like many people do and did, I’m sure, in the West. I feel myself wanting to say ” Well he did kill people who had plotted against him, didn’t he? Was it a set-up to expose his enemies and was the staged bombing then a propaganda set-piece to show a bomb-proof Fuhrer and
    deter others?” But I’m thinking I might be complicating it.

    Was it a ‘total psyOp’, if you will? In terms we understand today?
    Were the supposed perpetrators really just ‘retired’? Sent somewhere? South America??
    Or maybe North? Hey, von Braun did fine using his real name there.

    DalTampra

    #172962
    xileffilex
    Participant

    A few more images from the trouser bombing

    The last trouser bomber, Ewald-Heinrich von Kleist, only died in 2013

    Von Kleist himself was arrested and questioned at length by the Gestapo, and sent to a concentration camp, but then inexplicably let go and returned to combat duty.
    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2292304/Last-member-briefcase-bomb-plot-kill-Hitler-survived-dictators-murderous-revenge-dies-aged-90.html

    The excellent bedside manner of Adolf with his less fortunate “woundees” is seen in this additional shot of Jesco von Puttkamer in Rastenberg [Ketrzyn] Hospital 10 days later

    The chap on the left is Kapitän zur See Heinz Assmann, [1905 – 1954]
    Have the captain’s hands been burnt to a crisp? Has von Puttkamer something to smirk about? Compare with the earlier image

    #172999
    Blue Moon
    Participant

    My guess is that the generals thought they should appear to have tried to whack Uncle Adolf at least once, appear to have some of their own sacrificed to make it look like a genuine attempt, the whole thing implying that they had been under Hitler’s command all along rather than actually conducting the war themselves while the screaming sock puppet took the flack in the court of public opinion-
    I’m writing a book right now about the JFK assassination as television programming and the overseer of the imagery as well as the script supervisor is in my opinion the Hollywood director John Frankenheimer- When you think Hitler on camera for whatever reason, you have to think Goebbels and UFA writers and directors- (Ironic fun fact: Viet Harlan, the Nazi’s Steven Spielberg, eventually became the Uncle-in-law of Stanley Kubrick- I’d like to have been a fly on the wall when those two talked shop) The point is, you can have all the mind benders and think tanks you want studying human behavior, but when it comes to pulling off the actual street theater, you have to go to show people who know how to stage and film it-

    #173001
    xileffilex
    Participant

    Correction, it wasn’t just a trouser bombing, tunics were also involved…

    Some good images are collected on this web page
    http://www.got-blogger.com/alifrafikkhan/1068791783916604575/

    Do I detect a little crisis acting, 1944 style?


    General Schmundl

    #173002
    Blue Moon
    Participant

    The more I look at Oliver Hardy’s shredded slacks, the more the soldat holding them up looks to be a stunted, underfed fourteen year old- Maybe wardrobe thought they were supposed send over Iron Hermann’s britches-

    #173046
    Tom Dalpra
    Participant

    :-))

    Tssk on me… the ‘new’ edit time and my haste caught me out again. Please excuse my sloppy last post.
    The triple-posted ‘Jumbo Trousers’ for one!
    Back in the bunker and I think we can say the injured Adjutant, von Puttkamer there is
    not the father of the (‘celebrated’ – put on a Spaceman suit and go to a party) NASA Jesco von Puttmaker.

    HOWEVER Regardless of this there’s Operation Paperclip which ties NASA inextricably with NAZI.
    It’s not rocket science.

    Sorry, it is rocket science but it isn’t that complicated, is more the truth.
    We all know the story. Can we call it an open secret? Was it ever questioned, I wonder? Did anyone say ” Hold on!”
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Paperclip

    ”Operation Paperclip until August 1945. Truman’s order expressly excluded anyone found “to have been a member of the Nazi Party, and more than a nominal participant in its activities, or an active supporter of Nazi militarism”. However, those restrictions would have rendered ineligible most of the leading scientists the JIOA had identified for recruitment, among them rocket scientists Wernher von Braun.” (Amongst plenty of other characters!)
    fd

    fd

    So, Wernher Magnus Maximilian, Freiherr von Braun, to give him his full title.

    (…vons everywhere. I think they sound pretty cool, as names…has the propaganda got through to me somewhere..?)

    Excuse me.

    So yes, Wernher. This handsome bastard got Jimmy Stewart good looks.
    ds

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wernher_von_Braun

    Check it out.
    ”According to one NASA source, he is
    “without doubt, the greatest rocket scientist in history”.

    This guy is credited with inventing the V-2 rocket, the ”Retribution Weapon” which resulted in the deaths of an estimated 9,000 civilians and military personnel, while 12,000 forced laborers and concentration camp prisoners were killed producing the weapons.”

    Jeez, this is old style propaganda isn’t it? The idea of 12,000 slaves dying making it, is as if from an ancient legend or myth. A sacrifice to the Gods to give power to this great beast!

    Then ” Through a lengthy sequence of events, a significant portion of the original V-2 team ended up working for the US Army at the Redstone Arsenal. This team, led by Wernher von Braun, would be turned over to NASA on its formation in October 1958.”

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/V-2_rocket

    Oh yeh, and the handsome Wernher, SS man and fully fledged Nazi goes on to actually front WALT DISNEY productions telling prime-time America about future Space Travel.
    Priceless. Feckin’ V-2 Boy; Rocket Man, himself. 12,000 slave laborours and 9,000 Londoners later and ”it’s Hollywood for you baby!”

    The thing is, another open secret maybe…you can live for years with the term ‘rocket science’ meaning ‘the ultimate in intelligence” but…strap-in, ‘cus, you’d most certainly need to – ROCKETS ARE SHIT. Sorry, to be blunt, but they’re rubbish at taking anyone, anywhere. A total liability.

    You don’t wanna do that. As bombs? Okay. But as people carriers, a total liability and non-efficient. Surely?

    The jet engine is truly a great war-time advancement for carriage in the air, but not the rocket? Ha! Hey, but von Braun looked like Jimmy Stewart

    DalTampra

    #173051
    Tom Dalpra
    Participant

    ”You’ve got the body of a Mummy and a face like a plasterers’ radio mein Herr. Hadeha”
    fd

    DalTampra

    #173080
    Tom Dalpra
    Participant

    My guess is that the generals thought they should appear to have tried to whack Uncle Adolf at least once, appear to have some of their own sacrificed to make it look like a genuine attempt, the whole thing implying that they had been under Hitler’s command all along rather than actually conducting the war themselves while the screaming sock puppet took the flack in the court of public opinion-

    Thanks, that makes sense. I knew I needed to tweak my perspective there a little.

    DalTampra

    #173081
    Tom Dalpra
    Participant

    Oliver Hardy Trouser effect.

    Yeh, okay. It’s a boy, isn’t it? The jacket again, looks so big and he looks so young. The ‘blast’ damage looks more like a dog has been chewing it.

    From LIFE magazine. 1883 -1972
    ds

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Life_%28magazine%29

    DalTampra

    #173598
    xileffilex
    Participant

    Tom, the interesting runner in the Op Paperclip roll call is at #32 Dr Arthur Rudolph colleague of von Braun. Some years later, the wheels came off….
    http://www.independent.co.uk/news/people/obituary–faith–reason-arthur-rudolph-1322619.html
    The accusation was that he was responsible for 20,000 deaths at the V2 plant underground at Dora Mittelbau [Niedersachswerfen from about 14:40 in the video below – where were all the bodies*?] a figure which just pops up out of nowhere.

    Where did the accusation come from? Here

    After the dramatic success of the first Moon landing, Rudolph retired from Nasa in 1969. A grateful government awarded him the Distinguished Service Medal and the Congressional Medal of Honour. Rudolph retired to California, but his Nazi past came back to haunt him. In 1982, Jewish groups began to investigate his war record after Jean Michel, a former inmate of Nordhausen, condemned him in his book Dora: the hell of all the concentration camps (1975;

    English edition 1979), suggesting that he should have been hanged for his crimes.

    Since the Americans liberated Dora, it seems perverse that Rudolph ends up persona non grata in his new country
    http://articles.chicagotribune.com/1995-04-12/news/9504120194_1_von-braun-germans-jet-fighters

    Perhaps he stopped playing ball?

    The weapons that came off the production line at Mittelbau-Dora were the forerunners of spacecraft and led to the landing of men on the moon in 1969.

    The Germans produced more than 30,000 V-1s and 6,000 V-2s. Many fell harmlessly into the North Sea, however, and the Germans suspected sabotage by their slave workers.

    Tuberculosis, pneumonia, diarrhea and exhaustion claimed some 2,700 lives in the first winter.

    On April 4-5, 1945, Nordhausen, a town of 40,000 people 1.5 miles from Mittelbau-Dora, was heavily bombed. That same month, the Gestapo planned to shoot all prisoners to protect the secret of Mittelbau-Dora, according to survivor Stefan Katz, now 72 and living in retirement in Berlin.

    NYT,April 12, 1995

    Katz’s Shoah testimony is cataloged here: a non-observant jew interviewed the year after Rudolf’s death.
    There’s some V2 footage from Germany from about 7:10 here

    #92 Konrad Dannenberg is seen at 9:40

    A V2 source, with some questionable imagery is here wth spooky descrptions of alleged launch sites – it also mentions an alleged disaster I had not come across, the Deptford Woolworth store collapse
    http://www.v2rocket.com/start/deployment/denhaag.html

    Sept 8 1944:

    Only five minutes would pass before the first rocket slammed into England at Staveley Road, Chiswick (West London), traveling at nearly 3000 miles per hour. The other hit Epping (27 km north of London)


    Staveley Road impact crater, allegedly

    During the rocket operations conducted on the coast of Holland, more than 1300 rockets were fired at London. The British authorities reported 1115 attacks reaching British soil. About 80% of these were launched from the area of Den Haag and the others from the area of Hoek van Holland.


    [testimony by Andrew Herskovits in the video from 15.48 onwards]

    The last six rockets fired at England on March 27, included one that impacted a block of flats (apartments) at 07.21 hr. in Stepney at Whitechapel. 134 people were killed and 49 others injured.

    *the body imagery, without provenance, is at 17.50 in the Nat Geo video
    Note that at 19:50 Konrad Dannenberg disputes the Herskovits’ story; Herskovits reckons that Dannenberg never had it so good…[in wartime] Yeah.

    See also 43:50 onwards, where rocketry trumped wartime allegiances.

    The University of Huntsville, Alabama, [where von Pettkamer migrated to] has a kind of apology website which includes pages on von Braun and Rudolph.
    http://dora.uah.edu/

    How did V2 rocket scientist and former SS member Kurt Debus the first director of NASA’s John F. Kennedy Space Center (KSC), Fla., from July 1962 until November 1974 get on? Seems without problems – He died on Oct. 10, 1983, at the age of 74. I guess he died too young.
    http://www.nasa.gov/centers/kennedy/about/biographies/debus.html

    Von Braun surrenders after a “car crash”

    V2 director Georg Rickhey returned to Germany and disappeared from sight. What happened to him?

    #173991
    Tom Dalpra
    Participant

    Tom, the interesting runner in the Op Paperclip roll call is at #32 Dr Arthur Rudolph colleague of von Braun. Some years later, the wheels came off….

    An interesting runner, for sure, xilef.

    What about he wanted to go back to Germany anyway and they said ”Arthur, we’re gonna pretend to unfriend you”. It gave a perfect excuse to talk about Holocaust atrocities, ‘20,000 slave workers dead’. He can go back to Germany.
    Who gives a stuff? There’s no real ‘Jewish’ group on his back anyway. He’s an old guy, no one gives a shit in Germany.

    He was 77. It woulda made a good headline back in ’84
    77 YEAR OLD SS MAN 20,000 DEAD

    The story of the case had dragged-on for two years. People kept hearing the 20,000 dead rocket-slave myth on the news…dunno how much coverage it got…

    It serves as an illusion of accountability:
    NASA weeds people out; and of course, it legitimises the whole holocaust myth.

    And it was all make-pretend.

    ——————————————————————-

    Interesting diversion with Arthur Rudolph, xilef.
    While looking at him I learnt a little more about earlier rocket flight, or the history of this nonsense.

    Rudolph already had some interest in rocketry, having read Wege zur Raumschiffahrt (Ways to Spaceflight) by Hermann Oberth and having seen the film Woman in the Moon.

    So this led me to this character.
    ds

    Hermann Julius Oberth (25 June 1894 – 28 December 1989) was an Austro-Hungarian-born German physicist and engineer. ”He is considered one of the founding fathers of rocketry and astronautics.”

    Hey, this guy says– he was a prodigy. He may have been.
    See again, it is said he was influenced by some writings. Jules Verne, this time.

    ”By his own account and that of many others, around the age of 11 years old, Oberth became fascinated with the field in which he was to make his mark through reading the writings of Jules Verne, especially From the Earth to the Moon and Around the Moon, re-reading them to the point of memorization. Influenced by Verne’s books and ideas, Oberth constructed his first model rocket as a school student at the age of 14. In his youthful experiments, he arrived independently at the concept of the multistage rocket, but he lacked then the resources to pursue his idea on any but a pencil-and-paper .”

    fd

    ”Oberth moved to Peenemünde, Germany, in 1941 to work on Nazi German rocketry projects, including the V-2 rocket weapon, and in about September 1943, he was awarded the Kriegsverdienstkreuz I Klasse mit Schwertern (War Merit Cross 1st Class, with Swords) for his “outstanding, courageous behavior … during the attack” on Peenemünde by Operation Hydra, part of Operation Crossbow.”
    (Oh yeh…a medal…as a rocket engineer? Was this credibility building for a chosen agent? It feels like it)

    ”Oberth later worked on solid-propellant anti-aircraft rockets at the German WASAG military organization near Wittenberg. Around the end of World War II in Europe in May 1945, the Oberth family moved to the town of Feucht, near Nuremberg, Germany, which became part of the American Zone of occupied Germany, and also the location of the high-level war-crimes trials of the surviving Nazi leaders. ( That would appear to be perhaps, asking for trouble , but no) Oberth was allowed to leave Nuremberg to move to Switzerland ( Note: Mmm like the NASA von Puttkamer family we looked at)
    in 1948, where he worked as an independent rocketry consultant and a writer.”

    Why not? It was his line. Then,

    ”In 1953, Oberth returned to Feucht, Germany, to publish his book Menschen im Weltraum (Men in Space).”

    ds

    Then, not only was it ( very trendy sounding) ”Men in Space’, Oberth also got into some early UFO stuff at this time:

    ”During the 1950s and 1960s, Oberth offered his opinions regarding unidentified flying objects (UFOs). He was a supporter of the extraterrestrial hypothesis for the origin of the UFOs that were seen at the Earth. For example, in an article in The American Weekly magazine of October 24, 1954, Oberth stated, “It is my thesis that flying saucers are real, and that they are space ships from another solar system. I think that they possibly are manned by intelligent observers who are members of a race that may have been investigating our earth for centuries…” He also wrote an article in the second edition of Flying Saucer Review titled “They Come From Outer Space”. He discussed the history of reports of “strange luminous objects” in the sky, mentioning that the earliest historical case is of “Shining Shields” reported by Pliny the Elder. He wrote, “Having weighed all the pros and cons, I find the explanation of flying discs from outer space the most likely one. I call this the “Uraniden” hypothesis, because from our viewpoint the hypothetical beings appear to come from the sky (Greek – ‘Uranos’).”

    The guy was a nutter. A fantasist. A tin foil-hatter! 🙂

    Oberth eventually came to work for his former student, Wernher von Braun, who was developing space rockets for NASA in Huntsville, Alabama. In 1958, Oberth was back in Feucht, Germany, where he published his ideas on a lunar exploration vehicle, a “lunar catapult”, ( Wow, a lunar catapult! Hey, we know rockets are dodgy, why not try a catapult?) and on “muffled” helicopters and airplanes ( pass!) In 1960, back in the United States again, Oberth went to work for the Convair Corporation as a technical consultant on the Atlas rocket program.”

    He’d dreamed of it as a boy, after all…playing with rockets…

    A meeting of Germany’s early rocket pioneers, including Rudolph Nebel at left, Hermann Oberth, to the right of the rocket.
    (Boys and toys…)
    fd

    Dad was always in ‘is shed dreaming something up.
    re

    Oberth retired in 1962 at the age of 68 and lived to the age of 95.
    Died in Nuremburg.
    He got into some other ‘hippy’ stuff in his latter years.
    ”The 1973 petroleum crisis inspired Oberth to look into alternative energy sources, including a plan for a wind power station that could utilize the jet stream. However, his primary interest during his retirement years was to turn to more abstract philosophical questions. Most notable among his several books from this period is Primer For Those Who Would Govern”

    Well there, Herman Oberth. Another little vignette. What I want to know now is where did Jules Verne get his ideas from?

    fd

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hermann_Oberth
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arthur_Rudolph

    DalTampra

    #174028
    smj
    Participant

    let’s not ignore the original “von” rocketeer,theodore von karman. von karman actually built his reputation theorizing about airplanes as opposed to spaceships… http://www.icas.org/media/pdf/John%20Green%20-%20Lecture%20text%20and%20figures%20final%20081205.pdf

    his father was the education-reforming philosopher maurice von karman… http://www.britannica.com/EBchecked/topic/312517/Maurice-von-Karman

    father, son, and johnny von neumann were all martians of course… https://global.oup.com/academic/product/the-martians-of-science-9780195178456?cc=us&lang=en&

    theodore got invited to caltech by robert millikan, the oil drop and “cosmic rays” guy. once von karman was in charge he started jpl and aerojet with: the father of the chinese space program… http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Qian_Xuesen , this shiny jerk… https://alumni2013.caltech.edu/system/datas/488/original/malina100.jpg?1349461646 , this crazy fuck… http://www.sott.net/article/241181-The-Triumphant-Beast , and fuckin’ jack parsons… http://www.madscientistblog.ca/mad-scientist-8-jack-parsons/ , amongst other sundry cretins.

    aerojet has been quite busy…

    Click to access x-ARstorybookFinal2.pdf


    here’s the famous photo of von braun, van allen, and pickering after the heroic answer to sputnik… http://www.corbisimages.com/stock-photo/rights-managed/BE062043/william-pickering-james-van-allen-and-wernher

    pickering was the fourth director of jpl, von karman was the first… http://www.jpl.nasa.gov/jplhistory/learnmore/directors.php

    and since the kennedy clan is never far from the bullshit, von karman was also the first national medal of science winner… http://www.jfklibrary.org/Asset-Viewer/Archives/JFKWHA-165-002.aspx

    from airplanes to space ships, von karman was a true pontifex.

    #174167
    Blue Moon
    Participant

    Speaking of deportees- Otto Von Bolschwing was an adjutant of Eichmann’s and though this article below doesn’t mention anything directly, if you marry this Nazzi spook to the investments he arranged for US companies after the war, especially in the tech industries, what you are seeing is Nazi flight capital being laundered through US companies and banks- The bankers he’s getting loans from are simply washing the stolen loot from the eastern countries the Reich fleeced- OVB’s partner in crime, Ken Newsom, is the father of Gavin Newsom, Getty houseboy and the former mayor of San Francisco and current Lt. Gov. of California- As for OVB’s brain disease, that’s one way to disappear- A suicided wife is another popular ruse to get her off the grid as well- http://spitfirelist.com/news/ex-nazi%E2%80%99s-brilliant-u-s-career-strangled-in-a-web-of-lies/

    #175278
    xileffilex
    Participant

    Heinz Linge worked with Adolf Hitler for a ten-year period from 1935 until the Führer’s death in the Berlin bunker in May 1945. He was one of the last to leave the bunker and was responsible for guarding the door while Hitler killed himself. During his years of service, Linge was responsible for all aspects of Hitler’s household and was constantly by his side.

    #175279
    xileffilex
    Participant

    Linge [b.1913] died in Hamburg in 1980 where he had been in business until 1978; he apparently sold the memoirs on returning from a Soviet POW camp in 1955,allegedly.
    http://www.spiegel.de/spiegel/print/d-14320425.html

    Hmmmmmm…..

    #175281
    xileffilex
    Participant

    oh dear I edited a post and it disappeared….
    here it was
    from an online Eureka Ca 1955 paper
    When l reached Hitler’s side, he was sitting in a chair, his trousers and jacket in tatters, his hair burned. Dr. Hasselbach was bent over Hitler removing wood splinters from his legs. Hitler looked up at me with slandhig alongside Hiller, had both legs blown off and died almost at once. General Schmundl had a leg and an arm blown off and died after four days in hospital. The shorthand writer sitting directly opposite Hitler lost both logs and died soon after. Nearly everyone else, in addilion lo wounds, had Iheir eardrums burst. Keitel and Jodl both suffered damaged eardrums. Guensche was blown clear of a window. Describing later what had happened, Hitler told me: “I was leaning on the table, which fortunately had a thick top. I had my right arm forward across the table because I was marking a map when the explosion happened. I was thrown into the air as the tabletop was blown up. I found that I was burned and injured about the legs.” Undoubtedly the tabletop saved Hitler’s life.

    [sorry if the auto translate doesn’t quite make sense, but we can see now that the July 20 plot was a psy-op.
    The story appeared in The News of the World October 23 1955 – January 1 1956, no doubt serialised. Linge was Hitler’s valet
    http://www.skyhorsepublishing.com/book/?GCOI=60239101283790

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