And a sloppy one at that.
Not as sloppy as the "Gleason Map".
But sloppier than the "Protocols".
Pike’s “letter to Mazzini” (1871) is a fabrication.
To understand how this is detected , go to my post on Lorenzo Valla and the forged “Donation of Constantine” in the fakeologist forums
The so called “Protocols …” are phony as well.
They’re mostly plagiarized from an earlier literary work.
The “Dialogue in Hell Between Machiavelli and Montesquieu: Humanitarian Despotism and the Conditions of Modern Tyranny”.
This is the source of the world's most infamous literary forgery, The Protocols of the Elders of Zion.
This conspiratainment "history" venue has a lot of shallow “researchers” who consistently fail to do the most basic study of DOCUMENTARY “evidence”.
But I accept it, because I know we live in a post-literate world.
The "Pike / Mazzini Letter" is a modern forgery
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SaiGirl
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Re: The "Pike / Mazzini Letter" is a modern forgery
https://wideshut.co.uk/albert-pikes-3-w ... t-webcast/
https://freemasonry.bcy.ca/anti-masonry ... zzini.html
This conspiratainment venue has a lot shallow “researchers” who consistently fail to do the most basic study of DOCUMENTARY “evidence”.
QUOTE
==========
Did Albert Pike Invent Nazism and Zionism?
Those with a critical eye will recognize that if this letter is true, Albert Pike had an uncanny ability to use phrases long before they ever made it in to the public vernacular. In fact he’s so prophetic, it immediately sheds doubt on the authenticity of the letter, which was supposed to have been written in 1871. Pike himself was born on December 29, 1809, and died on April 2, 1891. He was a Brigadier General in the Confederate Army during the American Civil War.
According to the text he claims that the first world war “must be brought about in order to permit the Illuminati to overthrow the power of the Czars in Russia and of making that country a fortress of atheistic Communism…”
While theoretically the term communism could have been used by Pike, as it was popularized by Marx and Engels in the 1840s ahead of the publication of the Communist Manifesto, the roots of the Russian Revolution did not form until the 1890s, some 20 years after the letter was allegedly written and when Pike was on his last legs. The reader must question whether he could have been privy to the outcome of the Russian workers’ movement before those workers themselves had ever heard of Marx or formed the movement to oppose their masters? And if he was, how could he have such foresight to suggest a World War could simply be brought about and that it could be controlled in such a manner to accomplish his goals? It’s not only highly unlikely but there is nothing of substance to suggest it actually happened. No testimony from anybody else associated with Pike, no other correspondence or writings from Pike himself – literally nothing other than this alleged letter.
It should also be noted that other than the general enlightenment movement the only “Illuminati” organization documented within decades of the time-frame of the letter was the “Bavarian Illuminati” which officially disbanded in 1785. Though conspiracy theories flourish to this day and the term is used in the abstract, serious accusations of the group’s secret continuation had died out at least 50 years before the letter was allegedly written. Out of all the verified Pike literature, only Morals & Dogma makes a fleeting and abstract use of the term Illuminati and this certainly ins’t in he context of some all powerful secret society. So if Pike believed a war must take place for the Illuminati, who are they and what evidence is there to support that they existed and he was a member? Of course some irrational proponents of the “letter” will say they’re a secret…but if they are such a well kept secret, how do YOU know they are/were real? It’s unfounded speculation at best.
The rest of the “letter” is also extremely dubious. Terms like Fascism, Nazism and Zionism were never used in Pike’s lifetime. Zionism as a word was coined in 1890 by Nathan Birnbaum and would not take root for several more years. There is no record of Pike knowing or meeting Birnbaum or having any connection to the Zionist movement. The ideological roots of Fascism were only in their infancy during Pike’s final years, and the term was not used publicly until Mussolini took his position in the 1920s. The term Nazism did not emerge until the 1930s with the rise of Germany’s National Socialist party.
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UNQUOTE
https://freemasonry.bcy.ca/anti-masonry ... zzini.html
This conspiratainment venue has a lot shallow “researchers” who consistently fail to do the most basic study of DOCUMENTARY “evidence”.
QUOTE
==========
Did Albert Pike Invent Nazism and Zionism?
Those with a critical eye will recognize that if this letter is true, Albert Pike had an uncanny ability to use phrases long before they ever made it in to the public vernacular. In fact he’s so prophetic, it immediately sheds doubt on the authenticity of the letter, which was supposed to have been written in 1871. Pike himself was born on December 29, 1809, and died on April 2, 1891. He was a Brigadier General in the Confederate Army during the American Civil War.
According to the text he claims that the first world war “must be brought about in order to permit the Illuminati to overthrow the power of the Czars in Russia and of making that country a fortress of atheistic Communism…”
While theoretically the term communism could have been used by Pike, as it was popularized by Marx and Engels in the 1840s ahead of the publication of the Communist Manifesto, the roots of the Russian Revolution did not form until the 1890s, some 20 years after the letter was allegedly written and when Pike was on his last legs. The reader must question whether he could have been privy to the outcome of the Russian workers’ movement before those workers themselves had ever heard of Marx or formed the movement to oppose their masters? And if he was, how could he have such foresight to suggest a World War could simply be brought about and that it could be controlled in such a manner to accomplish his goals? It’s not only highly unlikely but there is nothing of substance to suggest it actually happened. No testimony from anybody else associated with Pike, no other correspondence or writings from Pike himself – literally nothing other than this alleged letter.
It should also be noted that other than the general enlightenment movement the only “Illuminati” organization documented within decades of the time-frame of the letter was the “Bavarian Illuminati” which officially disbanded in 1785. Though conspiracy theories flourish to this day and the term is used in the abstract, serious accusations of the group’s secret continuation had died out at least 50 years before the letter was allegedly written. Out of all the verified Pike literature, only Morals & Dogma makes a fleeting and abstract use of the term Illuminati and this certainly ins’t in he context of some all powerful secret society. So if Pike believed a war must take place for the Illuminati, who are they and what evidence is there to support that they existed and he was a member? Of course some irrational proponents of the “letter” will say they’re a secret…but if they are such a well kept secret, how do YOU know they are/were real? It’s unfounded speculation at best.
The rest of the “letter” is also extremely dubious. Terms like Fascism, Nazism and Zionism were never used in Pike’s lifetime. Zionism as a word was coined in 1890 by Nathan Birnbaum and would not take root for several more years. There is no record of Pike knowing or meeting Birnbaum or having any connection to the Zionist movement. The ideological roots of Fascism were only in their infancy during Pike’s final years, and the term was not used publicly until Mussolini took his position in the 1920s. The term Nazism did not emerge until the 1930s with the rise of Germany’s National Socialist party.
============
UNQUOTE
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SaiGirl
- Posts: 362
- Joined: Sun Jun 21, 2020 9:42 pm
- Location: 21075
- Has thanked: 104 times
- Been thanked: 128 times
- Contact:
Re: The "Pike / Mazzini Letter" is a modern forgery
QUOTE
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“We shall unleash the Nihilists and Atheists, and we shall provoke a formidable social cataclysm which in all its horror will show clearly to the nations (people of different nationalities), the effects of absolute atheism, origin of savagery and of the most bloody turmoil…” etc.
What we do find in Guy Carr’s other book Pawns In The Game from 1956, is a series of paragraphs that do for the most part mirror the often cited text from the website. This however isn’t a direct quote itself, rather Carr’s own interpretation of the “letter” which he gleaned from another source. Carr never actually claimed that what he wrote was an extract. Thus whenever somebody claims that the above text is what Albert Pike wrote in a letter, they are either mistaken or lying. It is what Carr wrote in a book in the 50s!
This is how Carr begins his paragraph on the first World War. “Pike’s plan was as simple as it has proved effective. He required that Communism, Naziism, Political Zionism, and other International movements be organized and used to foment the three global wars and three major revolutions. The first world war was to be fought to enable the Illuminati to overthrow the powers of the Tzars in Russia“
This does not appear in quotations, it is not copied from the “letter”, it’s clearly Carr’s own interpretation.
Initially Carr had claimed the mythical letter was catalogued at the British Museum. He later backtracked writing in Satan: Prince of This World… “The Keeper of Manuscripts recently informed the author that this letter is NOT catalogued in the British Museum Library. It seems strange that a man of Cardinal Rodriguez’s knowledge should have said that it WAS in 1925”.
What this tells us is that Carr had no first hand knowledge of the “letter” or its validity, and everything he writes about it is hearsay. Thus the often cited Three World Wars text is just hearsay!
How exactly can he describe or summarize it if he hasn’t seen it?
He shifts the blame on to Cardinal Rodriguez of Chile, whose The Mystery of Freemasonry Unveiled was published in 1925.
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UNQUOTE
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“We shall unleash the Nihilists and Atheists, and we shall provoke a formidable social cataclysm which in all its horror will show clearly to the nations (people of different nationalities), the effects of absolute atheism, origin of savagery and of the most bloody turmoil…” etc.
What we do find in Guy Carr’s other book Pawns In The Game from 1956, is a series of paragraphs that do for the most part mirror the often cited text from the website. This however isn’t a direct quote itself, rather Carr’s own interpretation of the “letter” which he gleaned from another source. Carr never actually claimed that what he wrote was an extract. Thus whenever somebody claims that the above text is what Albert Pike wrote in a letter, they are either mistaken or lying. It is what Carr wrote in a book in the 50s!
This is how Carr begins his paragraph on the first World War. “Pike’s plan was as simple as it has proved effective. He required that Communism, Naziism, Political Zionism, and other International movements be organized and used to foment the three global wars and three major revolutions. The first world war was to be fought to enable the Illuminati to overthrow the powers of the Tzars in Russia“
This does not appear in quotations, it is not copied from the “letter”, it’s clearly Carr’s own interpretation.
Initially Carr had claimed the mythical letter was catalogued at the British Museum. He later backtracked writing in Satan: Prince of This World… “The Keeper of Manuscripts recently informed the author that this letter is NOT catalogued in the British Museum Library. It seems strange that a man of Cardinal Rodriguez’s knowledge should have said that it WAS in 1925”.
What this tells us is that Carr had no first hand knowledge of the “letter” or its validity, and everything he writes about it is hearsay. Thus the often cited Three World Wars text is just hearsay!
How exactly can he describe or summarize it if he hasn’t seen it?
He shifts the blame on to Cardinal Rodriguez of Chile, whose The Mystery of Freemasonry Unveiled was published in 1925.
=======================
UNQUOTE