Smolensk plane crash 2010, Polish President "dead"

[rachel]

The thing with it, for all of these bodies to have been placed on the map, this tells us they claim to have photographic evidence to prove the bodies were in said locations. These pictures are never discussed, neither autopsy photos. This is important because they admit none of the Polish people there that day saw any bodies, their whole story about the crash hangs on the supplied written, photographic and video evidence of people outside the legal jurisdiction of Polish law. This is really all we need to know about this crash, because if this story unravels, no Polish person is going to prison for fraud, they did everything their end "in good faith".

One final thing, as Andrei Mendierej enters the scene of the crash, we see something interesting that tells its own story. A well walked trail leading to the crash site before anyone has arrived to put out the fires. Another nice coincidence, the Tupolev Tu-154M crashing where a trail just happens to already culminate.

[xileffilex]

It's a re-run of the 1994 Chinook helicopter crash on the [suitably isolated] Mull of Kintyre in Scotland.


Here's a cursory, alleged eye-witness account, no mention of "bodies" of course.. from 2017
https://heavywhalley.wordpress.com/2017 ... -memories/

There was little we could do all the crew were dead and the crash site was very dangerous, sharp wreckage, fires, smoke and trauma. We located all the 29 and then updated Jim the Team Leader and all we could do now was secure the site and wait for the emergency services.

I could have written that myself from my imagination.

Naturally the writer had drilled this event earlier that day at a Scottish air base. Fancy that.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-48444714
& links. [2019 recaptulation for the 25th annivesrsary]

[rachel]

A bit more on this, because film maker and parliamentarian Grzegorz Braun has some interest for me in light of my use of his Smolensk Crash documentary in this thread.

https://rmx.news/poland/poland-confeder ... ity-scene/

POLAND: CONFEDERATION LEADER ASKS WHY HANUKKAH CELEBRATED IN PARLIAMENT BUT THERE’S NO CHRISTMAS NATIVITY SCENE

BY GRZEGORZ ADAMCZYK | REMIX NEWS | DECEMBER 19, 2023

During a recent Hanukkah ceremony in the Polish Sejm, Confederation MP Grzegorz Braun used a fire extinguisher to put out lit Hanukkah candles in a video that has since gone viral. This incident occurred while deputy speaker Krzysztof Bosak, who serves as chairman of the Confederation party, presided over the session.

Speaker Szymon Hołownia took over the session, excluding Braun from the proceedings and announcing a legal action against him for disturbing a religious ceremony. Hołownia also declared that the Sejm’s presidium punished Braun by halving his salary for three months and withholding his entire stipend for six months.

Following this incident, the Left party submitted a motion to dismiss deputy speaker Krzysztof Bosak, arguing that he allowed Braun to speak and deliver an “anti-Semitic” address after the incident. The Left pointed out Bosak’s insufficient response to Braun’s words, compelling speaker Hołownia to take over the session’s leadership.

The deputy speaker Bosak, in a radio interview, defended not expelling Braun from the Confederation, highlighting Braun’s qualities as a brave and credible politician, especially during Covid-19 restrictions. Bosak condemned the extinguishing of the Hanukkah candles but questioned the necessity of celebrating Hanukkah in the Sejm, particularly during a change in government, according to a report from Polish news outlet Pch24.

He also criticized the participation of Poland’s chief rabbi, Michael Schudrich, in the celebrations, referencing Schudrich’s comments about the Israeli army’s actions in the Gaza Strip. Bosak suggested that perhaps Hanukkah should not be celebrated in the Sejm at all, and wondered why there was not a Christmas nativity scene or an Advent wreath instead.

Bosak has come under pressure to expel Braun from his party, with rival parties threatening to remove him from his deputy speaker position if he does not do so. While appearing on a Polish news debate, Bosak was asked whether he would be willing to give up his position.

He responded, “Of course! We will not do anything for the sake of positions, and we will not allow political correctness to be imposed on us!”

Bosak downplayed the significance of Braun’s actions in the broader European context, noting that anti-Semitic attacks and protests occur daily in destabilized countries like Germany and France. He remarked that stereotypes of Polish anti-Semitism have persisted in Europe for decades.

Confederation spokesperson Ewa Hernik-Zajączkowska also questioned the celebration of Hanukkah in the Sejm on TVP Info, arguing against supporting Jewish ceremonies during Israel’s ongoing actions against Palestinian civilians. She accused speaker Szymon Hołownia and the Left party of hypocrisy, given their previous stance on the separation of church and state contrasts with their current defense of the Hanukkah celebration in the Sejm.

[rachel]

I thought I'd return to this post. Anyone who has looked at the content of Muppet Show will have an idea of my thinking, so faced with 96 alleged deaths in Smolensk, I was clearly going to apply the same logic. But where to start when I'm not Polish and I don't know Polish politics? It seemed clear once I discovered the then Health Secretary, Ewa Kopacz, made a false statement to parliament regarding Polish officials observing the autopsies of the crash victims that allegedly took place in Moscow, and then she subsequently became Polish Prime Minister...well, it was self selecting, she was the person I would look for in the photos of the dead. I put a bet on her being there.

I'll give you where i think one of the 96 went. But the imagery available for the dead is generally very poor, meaning we will never really know.



On the left is Ewa Kopacz, Polish Health Secretary at the time of the Smolensk crash. You know, the woman who lied to Parliament about Polish officials being present to observe the Smolensk dead in Moscow. The same person who later became Prime Minister of Poland. And on the right is Joanna Agatka-Indecka, Smolensk crash victim. You really have to look at the close-up to see they have a very similar tilted wide smile and wide set eyes. But whether it is her or not, it kind of proves the point. The exact same person could turn up with different shaped eyebrows and a different hairstyle, and if they had a different name, we mostly wouldn't be able to tell for sure if it is the same person or not unless we saw them in real life.

After matching someone, I generally like giving it a couple of months to see if I see the same things. So let's do it. Above, we see Ewa Kopacz with pencil thin eyebrows compared to Joanna Agatka-Indecka. The noses are different, but I always ignore this as it's the easiest part of the face to change. The position of the mouth in relation to the eyes cannot be altered, so that's an anchor. Mouth width can be altered slightly, but it is usually apparent if you look carefully. So let's first look at another picture of Joanna Agatka-Indecka and make some observations about the face.

She's wearing a different set of clothes and eye makeup in the second picture, so it's not the same day. This confirms there is something odd going on with her teeth; we see two darker areas in both pictures. I suggest, looking closer, she is wearing some sort of temporary veneers, and that's likely bonding glue we see. In other pictures, her teeth generally look white.

It might be we are seeing her natural eyebrows, but they seem somewhat odd shaped. There is also an apparent ridge where the inner part of the eyebrow on the left is missing, and we see, more faint, the same on the right. That suggests she might be wearing an appliance which is designed to thicken her eyebrows; and if we look at the tip of her nose, it looks too thick, therefore fake. So likely, the two areas are probably connected with one appliance. The eyeliner she wears is thick on the outside, but is only applied just past half way into the centre of the lid; this is used to give the eyes a somewhat heavy lidded, come-to-bed look.

If we move down to the lips, the left upper lip is fuller than the right side. We actually see that the right side cuts in more and is smaller. Similarly, the lower lip has a more prominent square shape at the left side, the right curving up with the mouth corner higher on the right than it is on the left. We see a ridge at the centre of the lower lip. On the left we see a dimple, and above the dimple, a bit of a shadowy line inside the smile line. I'm not really interested in her beauty spots as I'm convinced these are always added to fool us into thinking it's a different person.

So let's get up another side-by-side, and this one is more convincing than the first. In the close-up, to change the apparent shape of her eyes, Ewa Kopacz does a similar thing as before, she lines her top lids half way, but then continues the line on the inner rims to the tear duct, this is to give her eyes a more cat-like appearance. She then uses white highlighter at the inner corners of the eyes next to the nose, this makes the area look bigger. It's all an optical illusion together with her thinner arched eyebrows; the point, to make the eyes look a different shape.

Look at the mouth, the same tilt, the right side being higher, the same curl at the corner. On the left, the upper lip is bigger than the right. The lower lip has the crease in the centre, and we see the same shadow line inside the left smile crease. Partial evidence of a dimple to the left. Then to the detail below with just her mouth, the lipstick is being used to change the mouth characteristics and shape, but look at the general line shadows proportions and spacing. It's the same face.

We can conclude Joanna Agatka-Indecka did not die in Smolensk on the 10th April 2010, instead her alter-ego Ewa Kopacz became Prime Minister of Poland from 22 September 2014 to 16 November 2015. Is it therefore likely any of the other 95 people listed died that day? And yet Poland's (take-the) PIS party propagates the ongoing lie that 96 of Poland's Intelligentsia where murdered by the Russians that day. And how many millions since 2010 have Polish taxpayers been defrauded with the never-ending gravy train of independent reports and analysis of simulated data relating to the fake crash?

[rachel]

I thought I'd put this here because although it's about Swine Flu, which was never found in pigs, its name being changed to H1N1 by the CDC/WHO because of legal threats against any advertisers using the term. It seeks to suggest the Polish plane crash that is said to have killed 96 people was because the Polish government refused to authorise the jab...and suggest Jane Burgermeister pushes this.

No. Jane Burgermeister was reporting the alternative (fake) narrative as well as the official (fake) narrative of the Smolensk plane crash, and not trusting the Russians, she gave some weight to alternative narrative.

The 2009 Swine Flu pandemic started just miles from Baxter's Mexico plant with a single death. Meanwhile in Austria, a Lab worker injects Lab Ferrets with some of Baxter's 72 kilos of 2009 Seasonal Flu Shot & they all die. Post mortem reveals deadly live Avian virus in the Shot. Amazingly, medical Journalist Jane Burgermiester see's a tiny article about it & investigates to find out this mistake is impossible in a level 3 Bio Lab & in fact the live Avian Flu virus came from WHO. The Seasonal Flu Shot to start the Pandemic failed but it was geared up for the outcome of mandatory mass vaccination across Europe and USA (covert Sterilization program) with again Baxter supplying the Jab. Instead of simply ending the failed engineered pandemic they simply hijacked Seasonal Flu numbers & used fraud Testing along with MSM fear to drivemit along. The European mandatory program ended because of Poland refusing to give the Shot & French Activists taking the French Government to court charged with attempted mass poisoning. So who where the players behind Baxter?.. That info cost the Polish Government their lives.

The alleged Polish plane crash never happened. It is a fictional story, with gaping holes throughout, examined in detail in this thread. I can categorically say it is fake, because aerial images show the plane was at the crash location under cover days before the crash. And the memorial service the victims were apparently meant to be attending on the 10th April 2010, that show their empty seats, was actually filmed on the same day as Putin and Tusk attended a different memorial at the same location. This happened no later than the 7th April 2010, the day it was said to have taken place, and when it was published to the mainstream media.

The point of it, as I can see it, was to dispense with the Russian themed parliament and institutions which all had a Catholic/Military look and usher in a European Secular/Democratic look. But it was just a face lift, nobody actually moved, they just got new jobs and new identities in the new structure.

Anyway, other than Jane Burgermeister being sold on the alternative fake narrative for the Smolensk plane crash, she had some good information about Swine Flu. Here's a thread started by @xileffilex - Déjà vu: The H1N1 Swine Flu "pandemic" of 2009/10 - which shows everything that was rolled out in 2020 was tested in 2009...the compulsory vaccines, the lock downs, the masks, etc. The different aspects were rolled out in different countries and not as a whole. Here is a link where Jane Burgermeister reports on the Smolensk plane crash and here are a set of 2009 articles from Wayback she wrote regarding Swine Flu.

[rachel]

As soon as I discovered enough evidence to be able to say beyond reasonable doubt, categorically, the crash never happened, I pretty much stopped adding to this thread; even though I had done some research into how they likely faked the flight data information. I guess in a way, stopping was a good thing, because on moving to other topics, in hindsight, actually I now have a better understanding of the machinery they use.

Given what I have written up to this point, because when I started I had no clue what I would find, this is my main premise. The crash enabled the wholesale rebranding of the Polish government from Catholic-Communist-Military to European-Liberal-Democracy without in reality having to change anyone at the top.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Poland_in ... pean_Union

Poland has been a member state of the European Union since 1 May 2004, with the Treaty of Accession 2003 signed on 16 April 2003 in Athens as the legal basis for Poland's accession to the EU. The actual process of integrating Poland into the EU began with Poland's application for membership in Athens on 8 April 1994, and then the confirmation of the application by all member states in Essen from 9–10 December 1994. Poland's integration into the European Union is a dynamic and continuously ongoing process.

Early relations between Poland and the EU (1988–1993)
Diplomatic relations between Poland and the European Economic Community began on 16 September 1988. A year later, on 19 September 1989, during the first visit of the Chairman of the Committee of Ministers of the EEC to Poland, an agreement was signed on trade and commercial and economic cooperation in Warsaw.

Changes in Polish politics during and after 1989 allowed diplomatic talks regarding Poland's participation in the European Economic Community. Formal negotiations began on 22 December 1990, and ended on 16 December 1991, in the "European Agreement establishing an association between the Republic of Poland and the European Communities and their Member States". At the same time, along with the European Agreement, Poland signed a trade agreement included in the Interim Agreement in force from 1 March 1992.

Poland's agreement with the EEC came into force on 1 February 1994, three months after the Maastricht Treaty came into effect. The first step was the establishment of the Commission for the Unification of the Republic of Poland with the EU, whose task was to supervise the implementation of the new agreements. Talks at ministerial levels in the Polish Parliament were conducted within this commission. The Parliamentary Unification Committee acted as a forum for relations between the Polish Parliament and the European Parliament...

President Alexander Kwaśniewski signs the Treaty of Accession (23 July 2003)

...The Treaty of Accession 2003 signed on the 16 April 2003 in Athens was the legal basis for 10 countries Central and Southern Europe (Cyprus, the Czech Republic, Estonia, Latvia, Lithuania, Malta, Poland, Slovakia, Slovenia and Hungary) entering the European Union.

On 1 May 2004 Poland became a full member of the European Union, along with 9 other European countries.

Post-accession (2004–present)
According to information provided by the Ministry of Finance (on 8 February 2006), Poland had to be ready to join the eurozone by 2009, however, this was postponed to at least 2018. The Minister of Finance announced a regulation that, as of 15 April 2004, a consumer or a recipient of services is able to pay for their goods or services using euros.

President of the European Commission José Manuel Barroso with President of Poland Lech Kaczyński on 8 November 2007

On 13 December 2007, the Reform Treaty was signed by representatives of the 27 EU Member States in the Jeronimos Monastery in Lisbon. On behalf of Poland, the Treaty was signed by Prime Minister Donald Tusk and Foreign Minister Radoslaw Sikorski. At the head of the Polish delegation was President Lech Kaczynski, who was accompanied by the ministers of the Presidential Chancellery: Robert Draba and Michal Kaminski.

Polish accession to the Schengen Agreement took place on 21 December 2007 (for land and sea crossings) and 29 March 2008 (for airports, together with the new flight timetable). On 30 July 2007, Poland passed the technical tests for access to the Schengen system. As proposed by Portugal, a symbolic opening of the borders took place on 21 December 2007 in Worek Turoszowski on the tri-boundary of the Polish, Czech and German borders.

On 1 May 2009, five years after Poland had accessed the European Union, the period of protection against the purchase of homes and apartments in Poland by foreigners (citizens of the EU) had ended.

According to the survey conducted by the Public Opinion Research Centre in March 2014, the Polish presence in the European Union was supported by 89% of Poles, while 7% opposed Poland's EU membership.

The most up-to-date statistics (as of July 2016) show that in 2014 Poland received €17.436 billion from the EU whilst only contributing €3.526 billion. Poland also received nearly €2 billion more in EU funding than any other member state in 2013 (France being second highest). The European Union has made its funding available for infrastructure and transport; agriculture and rural development; health and research; growth and jobs; environment and energy as well as other projects in the European Social Fund. Examples include funding more than 60% of the investment needed to build a section of the A1 motorway between Toruń and Łódź (€1.3 billion), better public transport in Kielce (€54 million) and the Human Brain Project at the Warsaw University of Technology (€54 million).

We see the Polish people are just being moved from one version of Communism to another version of Communism, but if you look at my Baha'i thread, we see the same reform theme pushed on Iran.

Let's look up Alexander Kwaśniewski, the Polish President who had the reins before Lech_Kaczynski.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aleksander_Kwaśniewski

Aleksander Kwaśniewski born 15 November 1954, is a Polish politician and journalist. He served as the president of Poland from 1995 to 2005. His tenure as President was marked by modernization of Poland, rapid economic growth (Poland's GDP has doubled in ten years), the drafting of a new Polish Constitution (1997), and the accession of Poland to NATO (1999) and the European Union (2004). In 2004, he brokered a pro-democratic agreement during the Orange Revolution in Ukraine.

He was born in Białogard, attended the University of Gdańsk, and served as the Minister of Sport in the communist government during the 1980s. After the fall of Communism, he became a leader of the centre-left Social Democracy of the Republic of Poland, a successor to the former ruling Polish United Workers' Party, and a co-founder of the Democratic Left Alliance.

Kwaśniewski was elected to the presidency in 1995, defeating the incumbent, Lech Wałęsa. He was re-elected to a second and final term as President in 2000 in a decisive first-round victory. In line with a constitutional limit of two terms, his second term ended on 23 December 2005. According to a 2020 poll conducted by Rzeczpospolita, Kwaśniewski was considered the best president in post-1989 history of Poland...

Kwaśniewski (left) on Andrzej Tadeusz Kijowski's talk show in December 1994

...From November 1981 to February 1984 he was the editor-in-chief of the communist-controlled student weekly ITD, then editor-in-chief of the daily communist youth Sztandar Młodych from 1984 to 1985. He was a co-founder of the first computer-science periodical in Poland, Bajtek, in 1985. From 1985 to 1987, Kwaśniewski was Minister for Youth Affairs in the Zbigniew Messner government, and then Chairman of the Committee for Youth and Physical Culture till 1990

He joined the government of Mieczysław Rakowski, first as a Cabinet Minister and then as chairman of the government Social-Political Committee from October 1988 to September 1989. A participant in the Round-Table negotiations, he co-chaired the task group for trade-union pluralism with Tadeusz Mazowiecki and Romuald Sosnowski....

Presidency (1995–2005)
In an often bitter campaign, Kwaśniewski won the presidential election in 1995, collecting 51.7 percent of votes in the run-off, against 48.3 percent for the incumbent, Lech Wałęsa, the former Solidarity leader. Kwaśniewski's campaign slogans were "Let's choose the future" and "A Poland for all".

Political opponents disputed his victory and produced evidence to show that he had lied about his education in registration documents and public presentations. There was also some mystery over his graduation from university. A law court confirmed that Kwaśniewski had lied about his record—and this did not come to light until after the election—but did not penalise him for it. Kwaśniewski took the presidential oath of office on 23 December 1995. Later the same day, he was sworn in as Commander-in-Chief of the Armed Forces at the Warszawa First Fighter Wing, in Mińsk Mazowiecki.

His political course resembled that of Wałęsa's in several key respects, such as the pursuit of closer ties to the European Union and NATO. Kwaśniewski also continued the transition to a market economy and the privatization of state-owned enterprises, although with less energy than his predecessor.

Kwaśniewski with Russian President Vladimir Putin in Moscow, October 2001

Hoping to be seen as "the president of all Poles", including his political opponents, he resigned from the SLD after the election. Every Polish president since then has renounced formal ties with their party upon taking office. Later, he formed a coalition with the rightist government of Jerzy Buzek with few major conflicts and on several occasions, he stood against movements of the SLD government of Leszek Miller. At one moment, support for Kwaśniewski reached as high as 80% in popularity polls; most of the time it was over 50%.

Kwaśniewski with U.S. President George W. Bush in Washington, D.C., October 2005

So, at the very same time the ex-Trotsky Tony Blair appears in the UK, we have an ex-Communist journalist becoming President in Poland, and they are spouting the exact same rhetoric. And guess what, it was proved in a court of law Alexander Kwaśniewski wasn't what he claimed, yet that made no odds with regards to him being sworn in as Commander-in-Chief of the Armed Forces. We can guess, the reason being, he was just another in a long line of people pretending to be something they aren't. That the top job isn't the top job, and the concept of Commander-in-Chief is just that, a concept.

I think I'll have a little look at Lech Wałęsa in my next post before going back to the future, because I'm aware of political activists in the UK who apparently oppose the current global order, yet set Wałęsa up to be some sort of saviour of Poland.

[SaiGirl]

The thesis is that Soviet communism (Bolshevism, Stalinism) never really "surrendered" or "lost" the "Cold War".
Rather it was smoothly assimilated, integrated into global technocracy; and then repackaged with a comprehensive official "history" (legend) and legacy (hagiography) of its own.

Anyone here familiar with this, from back in the 1990s?

https://www.doomedsoldiers.com/pdfs/new ... litsyn.pdf

[pasterno]

The thesis is that Soviet communism (Bolshevism, Stalinism) never really "surrendered" or "lost" the "Cold War".
Rather it was smoothly assimilated, integrated into global technocracy; and then repackaged with a comprehensive official "history" (legend) and legacy (hagiography) of its own.

Yep.

Also Hitlerism / National-Socialism was communism.

• [Material world view (lebensraum, physical salvation)

• A clear but shifting enemy (Jews, or the Aristocrats in Russia) The pace at which the enemy changes is increasing, but always some-one is bad, from the Western POV: Russia, cops, Muslims, Russia Good, Russia Bad, China Good, China Bad

• A large state, +40% tax

• A huge bloating bureaucratic apparatus

• The constant flood of propaganda to the masses, shaping 1 man, 1 soul

The real fight if you can call it that is the individual vs this apparatus.

Are we able to keep thinking, feeling normally, and don't fall into the traps.

Murdering some kids in a country far away, have the heart filled with hate, resist state education

[rachel]

While looking at some 2010 Putin stuff, I noticed there are a couple of quite recent videos discussing the Smolensk crash. I've only scrubbed through one so far, I was actually interested in the comments to see if anyone would call it out as fake. I didn't find any, but I put one up with vague language so the AI wouldn't instantly delete, I'll see if it gets removed later. Apparently this guy's youtube channel is about crash investigations, so he's going to look at the flight data assuming the people supplying it are honest.

Just before I post the two videos, things to bear in mind...

If we believe the documentation the plane flew with, rather than a set of people not under oath...the plane that allegedly crashed, tail-no.101, had a twin, tail-no.102. At the time of the crash, tail-no.102 was also in Russia. It was said to be at the Aviakor aviation plant in Samara. And this is how they pulled the trick off. In the weeks before the crash, tail-no.101 flew to Samara under the callsign of 102, meanwhile, tail-no.102 used the callsign of 101 to fly to Smolensk on April 7th. In the news at the time of the crash there was a big kerfuffle about the number of planes Tusk ordered to fly from Poland on the 7th...but it was all a false story to confuse us. The reason, while the 102 with the 101's callsign may have flown Tusk and his delegate to Smolensk, it didn't return to Poland. Instead it flew to the Aviakor aviation plant in Samara to have the service it had been booked for.

The 101 left with the 102's documentation a week or two earlier, so it could be decommissioned and stripped down at the Aviakor aviation plant, parts of it to be arranged in the grounds of the Smolensk military airport in the days leading up to the alleged crash. That's why the documentation handed to the investigation team was that of the 102, with the 101's missing. Because the 102 had the 101's documentation when if flew out on the 7th, and as it would be issued with a new set once serviced, it didn't need the set the 101 had. This is why the 102 didn't fly back to Poland, it flew to Samara. Therefore Tusk's party needed to book an extra plane that flew out empty; and if the Yak-40 allegedly carrying the journalists on the 10th actually flew out on the 7th and stayed in Smolensk, that would be two empty planes needed to fly out on the 7th. We therefore have a reason Tusk ordered so many planes, and because they've got to fill the void with a cover story, bloggers put it down to decadence.


Here's the video based on the Russian report. I note he doesn't attempt to show a simulation of the actual crash.

The Air Crash that Killed the President of Poland | Smolensk Air Disaster

28 Feb 2021

And this is the second video, this time from the Polish PIS perspective, still no simulation of the crash.

How Did Polish Air Force Crash? | Smolensk Air Disaster (Polish Version)

23 May 2023

The following simulation is at least trying to be faithful to the official account based on the flight data.

Polish Air Force Flight 101.gif (4.58 MiB) Viewed 234 times

And this is the area of debris on the military base...clearly the plane broke up and instantly stopped moving forward on contact with the ground...



...else the plane sections were arranged in the days leading up to the alleged crash, and the decision to have the plane hitting the ground upside down, part artistic; part, to hide the missing sections of the plane we are told disintegrated on impact...the entire cockpit section for one.