Sun and Moon versus Temperature

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rachel
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Sun and Moon versus Temperature

Unread post by rachel »

The CORONA VIRUS is the gift that just keeps giving. When you realise how many people are utterly morally corrupt in high places in all institutions across the world... It didn't just happen in 2020. We just got to see how utterly complete the web of lies is. This post has nothing to with that, but it's always worth pointing it out.

So, Liverpool, UK, it's about 3:30 PM on the 8th December and the temperature is 3ºC. That's as high as the temperature has got today so far in the shade. I have noticed for the last couple of nights the moon is close to full and rising from a north eastern direction. If you are not sure about moon movements, it is similar to the sun, but its inner/outer path has a month cycle. So tonight it will rise from a similar position, but either a little more north east or probably less as it comes back. It has been high in the sky the last few days, equivalent to a summer sun, so is relatively close.

december moon.jpg

If you look at the tables above, the weather in Liverpool for the last month, you will see, we are only interested in the last third of each chart, from the 1st December, the LOW temperature, bottom range line on first chart, starts dropping. The 29th of November was Half Moon, so we see from the 1st, the moon is getting fuller as it is increasingly moving back to a 180º position from the winter sun. As well as the temperature dropping, you can see on the second chart there is little cloud cover from the 29th, and none from around the 2nd, basically meaning clear nights. And I can confirm the last couple of nights have been clear sky. Also the third chart shows wind, and since the 29th there has been little to no wind.

Snapshot_2022-12-08_145105_www.meteoblue.com.png

Because there has been no wind and no rain for the last week, the LOW hasn't moved and the winter sun isn't strong enough to warm the ground, particularly the north sides of buildings, etc. So the temperature has continued to drop with each pass of the moon in its high summer position in the sky, and with each pass it becomes fuller, so therefore colder.

Snapshot_2022-12-08_132812_www.moongiant.com.png

The point of this post. I guess you can try to do the scientific method and get a thermometer out in the full moon light and take the temperature first in the moon light, then in the shade. Else you can just observe the measurements and where the moon is in the sky. If it is high in a summer position, full, and there is no cloud cover, and the sun is in its winter position, I can guarantee you, it is going to be too cold for you to faff around in moon light with thermometers, particularly if it is something like day three of no wind, no cloud cover, no rain, were the LOW hasn't shifted and the night low temperatures are compounded because of the weak far sun.

I think the "no rain" is also an important factor when it comes to the ground staying cold. I'll discuss that in my next post.
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Re: Sun and Moon versus Temperature

Unread post by YouCanCallMeAl »

The point of this post. I guess you can try to do the scientific method and get a thermometer out in the full moon light and take the temperature first in the moon light, then in the shade. Else you can just observe the measurements and where the moon is in the sky. If it is high in a summer position, full, and there is no cloud cover, and the sun is in its winter position, I can guarantee you, it is going to be too cold for you to faff around in moon light with thermometers, particularly if it is something like day three of no wind, no cloud cover, no rain, were the LOW hasn't shifted and the night low temperatures are compounded because of the weak far sun.
Amazing! I did this just 2 days ago, and even have photos in support.

I took a look at this page, to see what the objections are :
https://physics.stackexchange.com/quest ... light-cold

I used 8 thermometers. I used bits of cardboard to provide shade, but that did not shelter or insulate the thermometers in any way (I think I had a 'proper blocking area', as per the graphic in one of the answers). Other environmental conditions were ideal, eg no wind - it was a very still night (nothing blew over the unsupported bits of cardboard), no cloud cover, full moon. I left the thermometers out for more than 2 hours.

You can't tell because I had to use my flash, but the top thermometer is in full moonlight, the bottom one is shaded. Neither is insulated. Unfortunately the camera angle is bad in one photo, and you can't read the reading. But all the readings are at least half a degree cooler in the moonlight. The reading is in the top right, the big number is humidity. I think its pretty conclusive that it is cooler in moonlight.

Here are the readings.
-4.4 vs -3.8 - diff of 0.6
-4.8 vs -3.7 - diff of 1.1
-4.2 vs -3.4 - diff of 0.8
-4.4 vs ??
Screenshot_20221209.jpg
Screenshot_20221209-2.jpg
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Re: Sun and Moon versus Temperature

Unread post by YouCanCallMeAl »

For completeness, here's a second set of pictures I took 3 hours later too.

Here are the readings here.
-4.6 vs -4.2 - diff of 0.4
-4.5 vs -4.2 - diff of 0.3
-4.7 vs -4.4 - diff of 0.3
-5.3 vs -4.3 - diff of 1.0

The difference is a little less in this set. But in every case, the shaded thermometer had a higher temperature.
Screenshot_20221211_3.jpg
Screenshot_20221211_5.jpg
General setup:
IMG_20221209_233852_1.jpg
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Re: Sun and Moon versus Temperature

Unread post by rachel »

Just to complete my observation. I was more in hope thinking the moon had reached its most northerly point on the 8th when I posted above. But that night I saw the moon rise even further north than the previous night. And this was bore out in temperatures which were colder than the full moon on the 7th, again part of this I would suggest is compounding of cold that wasn't cleared by either sun, wind or rain in the preceding day.

So here are the official stats on moon position over Liverpool.

Image

The top row is high/low temperature for each day, the 1st is where we really see the temperature starting to drop off a night. Half Moon was 29th of November and we are currently at 56% illumination, so we are into the waxing fuller part of the cycle and the moon's latitude in the sky is round 10º South, moving northwards.

1st December 2022, Latitude 26.44 north, moving north
1st December 2022, Latitude 26.44 north, moving north

By the time we hit the 8th and the recordings in my first post, the moon is at 100% illumination and is now, as I observed visually much further north. Latitude is now around 26º north, in a summer sun position, still travelling north. And this is why the night of the 8th is colder than that of the 9th. We still has clear skies, no wind, no rain.

8th December 2022, Latitude 10.09 south, moving north
8th December 2022, Latitude 10.09 south, moving north

The moon reaches it's most northerly point on the 9th and begins travelling back south. Illumination has dropped back to 97%, by position, equivalent to midsummers day, is 27º north, now travelling south.

9th December 2022, Latitude 27.44 north, moving south
9th December 2022, Latitude 27.44 north, moving south
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Re: Sun and Moon versus Temperature

Unread post by rachel »

I think it is interesting to consider what part wind, rain and cloud cover have in determining temperatures. My feeling is rain unlock stored cold meaning it could result in a drop in temperature in the short term, but it allows the cold to move and be cleared. I'll come back to that in another post.

Meanwhile, I'll put up the links I used in my data, so others can do the same thing. But I suspect we aren't doing anything new, it's what the Met Office no doubt uses to create its forecasts.

https://www.timeanddate.com/astronomy/m ... ation.html
current:
13th December.jpg

https://www.meteoblue.com/en/weather/hi ... 2&month=12
current:
dec month.jpg

https://www.moongiant.com/calendar/
current:
moon 13-12-22.jpg
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Re: Sun and Moon versus Temperature

Unread post by YouCanCallMeAl »

It seems to be a very moon-y time in general.

I was surprised by the closing ceremony of the world cup.

I realised that the logo of a figure 8 is actually like the (sun's or moon's) analemma.
FIFA-World-Cup-Qatar-2022™-Official-Emblem-revealed-.jpg
Their logo is definitely the moon's analemma, given the colour. (More on moon analemma's here: https://science.nasa.gov/analemma-moon)

The logo became the design of the winner's podium.
Screenshot from 2022-12-18 21-11-36.png
from (

Messi (close to 'messiah') was captain of the team that won. He had to wear a special see-through gown, for the award ceremony.
0_GettyImages-1450109371.png
I've never seen anything like that before!

And by the way, the scores on this, the 22nd world cup (it started 88 years ago) were 3-3 after extra time!
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