Doctor Who, how far does the Pantomime go back?

[rachel]

I thought I'd move this topic to it's own thread in the correct forum section. It makes much more sense than embedded in an unrelated topic title in historic 911. For context, it was originally posted here.


I can't imagine anyone spelling it out on an audio. There are ideas I'd like to go into, but a lot of it is word soup. Pictures can convey messages way better than words. And similes...erm...parables.

Do you think it is just Star Wars? I can fit certain narratives to Doctor Who; but I bailed watching the show at Mr.11, because I found the stories too tedious.

It's this self obsession it developed, it's got nothing but self-reverence. Utter pants.

And the trailer..."I don't know who I am anymore."...that is the only thing Doctor Who is about these days.



It's interesting they brought X and Donna back...I guess they want people to actually watch this one rather than torching licence fee money in an attempt to forward some divisive social justice agenda. Is that the new doctor at the end? We could argue colour, but what stands out for me is his accent.

I actually thought Sylvester McCoy was the perfect Doctor. A small man who doesn't look like he could intimidate anyone. You wouldn't give him a second look, yet once you have, there was a certain charm about him that had no good reason to be there. And then finally, when he turned he was bloody ruthless. I can't remember much about the stories, but in the last series he double-crossed Ace because it suited the situation. That was quite shocking from the confines of the character.

Do you mind me talking about Doctor Who @napoleon. There is something I've noticed, but it is a massive spoiler. I want to discuss it. But like you with Star Wars, no body will pick it up.

On the Star Wars subject, I suggest the main reason people on fakeologist cannot discuss it in depth, other than it's not that easy to frame without destroying everything. It's the commercial side, Star Wars is property, so discussing it and making money off discussing it, it's commercial gain, so whoever owns it, they'd want a piece of you. And again, if you are commercial and say something bad, there is a section under commercial law about doing down your competitors.

[napoleon]

ive heard the excuses first hand ," i might want to go back working for government radio","i can't talk about masonic ceremonys""i can't login ",and before that it was it's all fake until i decided to slap the liars that tried to tell porkies and hack me

the pictures were to show the premise has to be ignored to anyone honest,the story is masonic rosicrucianism v.i.t.r.i.o.l. which has never been discovered until me same as the three masonic temples destroyed on 911 historically solomons herods and the twin towers making solo-mans temple the millenium fall-con,and because controlled opposition cannot introduce new information unless accompanied by a decoy conspiarcy theory ,rule of two!!

i knew they had to ignore me,besides on percentages anyone trying to disect 911 would google how movies are made that leads to miniatures one hundred percent of the time ,,so some should have agreed not just smj .

its fun to be right but even better so solve 911 on an honest mans website knowing how many scumbags he deals with,masonic v.i.t.r.i.o.l. the psipher explains all of muricas history ,thats the hard part for them ,the foundational myth frank albo talked of too ab,everything i say leads to removing frauds,that is not allowed on an honest website ,they have so much invested in ,jlb ips and more would all disappear, this is why the pretend cops make me laugh.

[napoleon]

theres more than one topic offlimits to the lads ,you talk away dr who is a big thing for a reason ,i have a cutout nearly fullsize of tom baker for rollo when he quits his acting job,

[napoleon]

one of my favourite things is dr who disection ,all his fans lol his haha,are super nerdy

https://crowleytom.com/

this chap appears on podcasts i listen to and regularly metions dr who ,i have not followed him outside of them podcasts though ,but here is his site,

https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/s ... 0475764581

i know him from here but he is very lovable and cheeky

[rachel]

You know when Tom Baker announced he was leaving DW, there was talk in the newspapers about the BBC maybe replacing him with a woman. That's how far the idea of the doctor being played by a woman has stretched back.

I listen sometimes to bowlestrek bitching about Doctor Who. Not for a while though as these are new to me, and he's basically killed his channel because he so pissed off with current sci-fi.

Doctor Who Producer Does Not Understand Things (I Told You So - Episode 3)


The Current Disastrous State of Doctor Who



Anyway, from bowlestrek, I know the writers added a prologue to the whole story that now makes the first ever incarnation of the doctor female. Do you see a theme?

Since the 1980s this has been an ongoing festering wound for someone, and it's interesting to explore why.




We know 13 is a woman. But I've got a theory that, like the story suggests, the first doctor was actually played by a woman, and that's why they are so obsessed about letting this cat out of the bag.

What do you think? It could be your gran... I know William Hartnell was a film actor before taking on the Doctor, but makes no odds. An actor pretends to be things, a women used to cost less to employ because they weren't expected to be the breadwinner. So more of a hobby. And Doctor Who's creator was a woman. This makes casting sense.

But I'll go further than that, I am running with the theory that all the odd numbered doctors are women. And I know this is controversial because of who it captures. So it makes sense after Tom Baker, why the papers were saying, "the next doctor might be a woman", because the next doctor was going to be a woman anyway, but it was just whether the character would match the sex of the actor. It ended up that they bottled out.

On my working theory, that would make William-Hartnell, Jon Pertwee, Peter Davison, Sylvester McCoy, Christopher Eccleston, Matt Smith and Jodie Whittaker all women.

I know this is going to be a hard sell, but let's start with Jon Pertwee. Is there a chance I've called it correctly on him? ...Thinking about practical consideration in dressing a woman to disguise her as a man, well they are all present in Pertwee's outfits.

Do you see what I'm pointing out? Capes to increase shoulder width, ruffles to hide what's going on in the chest area, long jackets to hide hips, frilly sleeves to hide wrists, and then bouffant hair to make the head look larger than reality. You probably know these things better than me, nothing on film is arbitrary, everything has a considered reason for being there.

Finally, this one, why do his hands look like he's wearing gloves, particularly the hand on the left?

I'll continue in next post.

[napoleon]

looking forward to your musings ,i'm not a fan ,but you know i do like running themes and why not with dr who its the longest running sci fi ever ,
mr e vs dr who ,and some of them are funny looking ,sometimes popping a dress or a wig on a fella makes more sense xx

[napoleon]

does the first episode of dr who resemble anything like dorothy meeting the wizard of oz ,just asking cos of jfk
The first episode was transmitted at 5:16 p.m. on Saturday 23 November 1963. The assassination of U.S. President John F. Kennedy the previous day overshadowed the launch of the series; as a result, the first episode was repeated a week later, on 30 November, preceding the second episode.

just a hunch

[rachel]

Peter Davison is in some ways easier to sell, his doctor's character was quite effeminate. With all of the old doctor stuff, I'm remembering from childhood, I've not seen it since, odd clips and photos only. It's just certain things like the suggestion of the doctor being a woman in the papers, it's a curious question why it would ever come up when no view would want it. Why would you even consider changing a male character to female unless there was something deeper behind it?

The Mirror, 25th October 1980

And even in All Creatures Great and Small, Peter Davison played someone gentle, and not masculine at all.

Tristan Farnon suffering for 7 minutes straight



More floppy girly hair, a thick knit and long coat.

I fancy they are all women above. it's easier to get away with it if there isn't an actual man in shot. Because then there is no reference point for size. This might be why the produces were told by BBC controllers to axe the multiple assistants with Davison, too many women. Adric was killed off.

That's definitely a woman, isn't it? ...I also note the spats style on the doctor's shoes, that design would be to hide inbuilt lifts. Another clue to the idea I might be right about Peter Davison.

[rachel]

does the first episode of dr who resemble anything like dorothy meeting the wizard of oz ,just asking cos of jfk
The first episode was transmitted at 5:16 p.m. on Saturday 23 November 1963. The assassination of U.S. President John F. Kennedy the previous day overshadowed the launch of the series; as a result, the first episode was repeated a week later, on 30 November, preceding the second episode.

just a hunch

From wiki:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/First_Doctor

The First Doctor is a mysterious character and little is known about him at the outset except that he has a granddaughter, Susan Foreman, and that they come from another time and place. He has a ship that travels through time and space, the TARDIS, which is currently disguised as a police box (Susan notes that it used to be able to change to blend in with its surroundings), and is bigger on the inside. The Doctor describes himself and Susan as "exiles" without specifying why or even whether their exile is self-imposed. It would not be until the last adventure of the Doctor's second incarnation that the name of the Doctor's people (the Time Lords) would be revealed, and the third incarnation before the name of his home planet (Gallifrey) was first spoken.

The series' first episode opens with a pair of schoolteachers in contemporary (1963) London, Ian Chesterton and Barbara Wright, investigating the mystery of Susan, a student who seems confused and even frustrated at how what she is learning in history and especially mathematics seems to be wrong. Following Susan to her supposed home, they discover the TARDIS in a junkyard, surprising both Susan and her grandfather the Doctor, who launches the ship in response to the discovery. Ian and Barbara are involuntarily taken on a journey back to the year 100,000 BC and spend two years adventuring through time and space with the Doctor, who at this point in the series has no control over the navigation systems of the TARDIS.

[rachel]

This line of thinking opens up a whole can of worms, once we get the visual trickery it requires to pull off a woman being a convincing man on screen, or vice-versa, it's like dominoes. Because if I'm correct about the actor playing this character, then that other person they just played a scene with cannot be a man. But, exposing historic performances of men pretending to be women and women pretending to be men has never been my primary game; it's more about understanding why we are living in the car-crash situation we currently are, and how we got here. I let certain things go that are now apparent to me because once I've seen enough to convince myself I am probably on the right track, then it is enough for me and I move on.

It's always made sense that there are a set of women who are quite happy to make a career out of playing men, because they are then not pressured into sexual roles, yet they can play what they both love and hate in the opposite sex. That quiet concept seems to have been lost in an industry that now has no new ideas, and is just a narcissistic churn of the same-old same-old while trying to moralise with its audience.

The Matrix Resurrections: The Joke's On Us



So I'm on to Sylvester McCoy, now I like McCoy, as I said, my notion of who the Doctor is, he is a really good fit. In my view, there shouldn't be anything sexual about the Doctor, in some ways he should be physically repulsive, and yet something in his character makes him attractive and appealing, yet this can be switched off at a click of the fingers, and you left with someone severe, unpredictable and rather frightening, even though he's just a little man. I think this is exactly what Sylvester McCoy brought to the role, the knowing glint in the eye.

Pictured, what do we have, a short man, no lifts this time. Another thick knitted tank-top, the impression he has a bit of a beer-belly; so rather than using ruffles at the chest line we have the introduction of a bump to even out other possible bumps. Wide cut trousers, and his doctor always wore a hat, an alternative to bouffant hair to increase head size. Finally, small feet.

I'd go so far as saying his assistant Ace might actually be related to him. There is something samey about the two of them.

The hair on the hands, it can be faked via flocking. So this is another one who is quite possible.