Unreal wrote: ↑Wed Jul 13, 2022 1:44 am
* sorry for being off topic here speaking abortion not Muppets
It's part and parcel. This thread I have created has no real plan, I have a list of things I want to eventually get to, but really it's an exploration of how all these things are linked. If I'm right about any of it, I have varying degrees of certainty and some days it just seems utter craziness, and yet, as the evolutionists would say, 'it must be true because here we are'. I'm not going to quite affirm that, but you know my Christian thesis, which is not to say I'm a particularly good Christian - not doing what is wrong is not akin to doing what is right - and I'm much better at the former than the latter.
I added the 'Aborted Baby Parts Cost' slides because I felt it was pertinent as is shows how we have all been siloed into unknowingly working for the beast system. We all do our own individual thing and we don't see how it is interconnected. It is the cause of why we are where we are. The root of the problem we have in the West is that the people who took power gained it by pretending they were Christians, maybe indeed believing they had a Christian outlook. It is unsurprising why everyone is so cynical of 'the Church' when it is constantly used as a prostitute for one cause or another, its doctrines reinterpreted to suit whatever the ruling classes want to push, and sadly I do think they think they have the moral high ground.
Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools, and changed the glory of the uncorruptible God into an image made like to corruptible man, and to birds, and fourfooted beasts, and creeping things. Wherefore God also gave them up to uncleanness through the lusts of their own hearts, to dishonour their own bodies between themselves: who changed the truth of God into a lie, and worshipped and served the creature more than the Creator, who is blessed for ever. Amen.
For this cause God gave them up unto vile affections: for even their women did change the natural use into that which is against nature: and likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust one toward another; men with men working that which is unseemly, and receiving in themselves that recompence of their error which was meet. And even as they did not like to retain God in their knowledge, God gave them over to a reprobate mind, to do those things which are not convenient; being filled with all unrighteousness, fornication, wickedness, covetousness, maliciousness; full of envy, murder, debate, deceit, malignity; whisperers, backbiters, haters of God, despiteful, proud, boasters, inventors of evil things, disobedient to parents, without understanding, covenantbreakers, without natural affection, implacable, unmerciful: who knowing the judgment of God, that they which commit such things are worthy of death, not only do the same, but have pleasure in them that do them. - Romans 1:22-32 KJV
Where I stand, I believe Christ is risen. Jerusalem is evidence enough that Christ lived, the Bible says Jesus shut the Jews eyes because they did not accept his coming. That was not punishment, the Jews were given a specific Covenant by God, an agreement, a contract. They accepted the Terms and Conditions attached to the 'Mosaic Law', they could have taken up the early completion clause when it was offered. But instead, even when Pilate gave the people a final opportunity to overrule the Pharisees, they obeyed 'tradition' over 'scriptures' and freed the robber Barabbas while crucifying Christ. Therefore now, 'the first becoming the last', they have to wait until full maturity of the 'Plan of Salvation' because they are the Testament that the Biblical events happened and the LORD God led them out of Egypt.
And it is interesting when you look up the term 'robber' to see its etymological links.
Do we not live in a world controlled by robber barons, therefore did not God give the Jews exactly what they wanted?
Going back to your abortion comment, in an ideal world I totally agree with all of your sentiments. Yes, the whole dissecting of the dead is akin to witchcraft. It's speaks of the desire to reverse engineer creation. The reason I have spent so much time on the Baha'i Faith is because it absolutely proves the disconnect between what the controllers say they believe and what they actually believe. Anyone thinking in rejecting Christianity we will get a secular world, it doesn't work like that, what we will get is a similar religious hell the Jews lived under at the time of Jesus.
And it came to pass, as he went into the house of one of the chief Pharisees to eat bread on the sabbath day, that they watched him. And, behold, there was a certain man before him which had the dropsy. And Jesus answering spake unto the lawyers and Pharisees, saying, Is it lawful to heal on the sabbath day? And they held their peace. And he took him, and healed him, and let him go; And answered them, saying, Which of you shall have an ass or an ox fallen into a pit, and will not straightway pull him out on the sabbath day? And they could not answer him again to these things. - Luke 14:1-6 KJV
This exchange ultimately leading to Christ's crucifixion. The Pharisees logic, the law they upheld, you can pull an animal out of a pit on a sabbath, but you cannot pull a man, woman or child out of that same pit on that same day without risking forfeiting your life for blaspheming the sabbath.
This is where I somewhat depart from you. Should we kill animals? In an un-fallen world - clearly no. But we live in a world where everything eventually dies. What are we saving in not killing animals? What is the longterm result? Less animals living? More animals killing each other? Being overrun by animals? Can we kill animals as pest control just not eat them? And if we cannot kill them for food, why is it ok to kill them for leather and other byproducts? And what is it exactly about killing animals that is so operant? Is it the using of them for our own ends or the extinguishing of life? If it's about the former, then can we eat honey, drink milk? Can we ride horses, use donkeys and camels to carry things? Can we justify keeping pets? And if it is the latter, are insects not living? What about plants? What gives us the right to uproot plants, should we only eat fruit?
I'm not trying to use this as the argument to say, 'therefore we should kill', I'm saying from the Biblical viewpoint when death entered the world the glory of the animals also changed. They were from that point constituted into keeping this world functioning by one way or another clearing dead plants and animals and therefore giving room for new life. The reason I don't join the vegetarian/vegan bandwagon is because I have friends who are vegan and their world-view is generally deplorable. All the above comes from the arguments radical vegans have. And invariably, the one thing they are not against is abortion. This tells me that although the sentiment on face value is holy just and good, in practice it is the argument of a death cult. Just as the concluding act of Capitalism is Communism, the concluding act of veganism is cannibalism.
https://www.dailykos.com/stories/2010/11/17/921316/-
Animism is, perhaps, the most ancient form of religion. In Europe, one of the remnants of this ancient religion can be seen in the reverence for or the worship of trees. While there are a number of writers who have pointed out that the oldest temples or sanctuaries among the Germans are groves of trees, others, such as Sir James Frazer in his The Golden Bough, point out that this may be found in all early European cultures.
Sir James Frazer writes:
- Sacred groves were common among the ancient Germans, and tree-worship is hardly extinct amongst their descendants at the present day.
In attesting to the seriousness of tree-worship, Frazer describes the penalty for peeling the bark of a standing tree:
- The culprit’s navel was to be cut out and nailed to the part of the tree which he had peeled, and he was to be driven round and round the tree till all his guts were wound about its trunk. The intention of the punishment clearly was to replace the dead bark by a living substitute taken from the culprit: it was a life for a life, the life of a man for the life of a tree.
- Bohemian Grove
Whether Bohemian Grove is what it is really claimed, else a filmset, its location was chosen because of the ancestors it references, something I intend to cover in the Baha'i thread... I also realise the 'animal' argument above can be substituted out with 'people' - 'But we live in a world where everything eventually dies. What are we saving in not killing people? What is the longterm result? More people living? More people killing each other? Being overrun by people? Can we kill people as pest control just not eat them?' ... - You read any 19th century Theosophist on veganism, or the Fabians, you know this 'othering' of people who do not follow their doctrine is the cornerstone of their belief system.