Forever Conscious Research and Overwatch take on "loosh"

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Forever Conscious Research and Overwatch take on "loosh"

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Another excellent big picture discussion with Mark of Forever Conscious Research and Dan of Overwatch Channel. Once again they address the Soul trap reincarnation matrix as well as Robert Monroe's concept of Loosh.



The Star Trek episode Day of the Dove was referenced as a model for loosh harvesting in this realm. Star Trek episode below, complete with androgyne Klingon.



They also reference Omikron The Nomad Soul with David Bowie as a model for this realm. This is from 1999.

The adventure game follows players as their souls enter the futuristic city of Omikron, located in an alternate dimension. Players explore the world while fighting off demons who try to trap their souls.

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5 hour extravaganza commenting on Robert Monroe interview

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Mark and Dan dissect Robert Monroe's interview from 1992. Monroe describes the earth realm incarnation as dangerous and addictive. The more we reincarnate, the more difficult it is to leave.

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Re: Forever Conscious Research and Overwatch take on "loosh"

Unread post by YouCanCallMeAl »

Yes - I've been looking forward to this one - still working my way through it.

One thing that really needs addressing for this burgeoning spiritual take, is the idea of loosh. For me, loosh has a direct relationship to Duhkha in Buddhism. Wiki says:
Duḥkha commonly translated as "suffering", "pain," or "unhappiness," is an important concept in Buddhism, Jainism and Hinduism. Its meaning depends on the context, and may refer more specifically to the "unsatisfactoriness" or "unease" of mundane life when driven by craving/ grasping and ignorance.
I also see a relation to the Christian idea of sin, and karma.

Loosh however is even more objectionable to me as it has an even more tangible sense of reality than Duhkha. It is said to be a spiritual energy that is harvested by someone for something. (This is how Bob Monroe describes it!) Its not intended to be a metaphor.

The reason these terms (loosh, Duhkha, sin and karma) are problematic is the same - it is not an actually existent thing, it is all in the eye of the beholder. You cannot point to it, it is not physical. Plainly it is a concept/idea that you might (or might not) relate to. If life is pain and suffering to you then that is duhkha, or loosh, or perhaps the effects of sin or karma. But does this mean that if life is pleasurable to you, then there are no such things?

To see what I'm getting at, take a look at the Vinegar Tasters:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vinegar_tasters
The allegorical composition depicts the three founders of China's major religious and philosophical traditions: Confucianism, Buddhism, and Taoism.

The three men are dipping their fingers in a vat of vinegar and tasting it; one man reacts with a sour expression, one reacts with a bitter expression, and one reacts with a sweet expression. The three men are Confucius, Buddha, and Laozi, respectively. Each man's expression represents the predominant attitude of his philosophy: Confucianism saw life as sour, in need of rules to correct the degeneration of people; Buddhism saw life as bitter, dominated by pain and suffering due to attaching possessions and material desires; and Taoism saw life as sweet due to it being fundamentally perfect in its natural state.
The point is that these idea are really just 'barnum statements' (as legalman puts it) - terms that can mean whatever the beholder wants it to mean, eg "good", "fair", "fun", etc. We are not uncovering an underlying reality here, only our interpretation or reaction to reality.

I would put it even more simply - these value-judgements about this or that concept are also illusory.

Now, of course we 'colour' our experience with interpretations and feelings, and we have words to convey those internals states for the benefit of those we interact with (and ourselves) - but the nature of reality is that we can't know what another means by terms like 'loosh'. We would need to be telepathic to experience that. And its not a one way street - one's character will help determine the experience - eg someone prone to depression might agree that life is suffering - that is a filter that they apply to their experience of reality - the glass is half-empty. A 'happy' person would see the glass as half-full. Are either right?

One issue I have with Dan and Mark is when they mention loosh they wheel out a bunch of unverified ideas - eg the suffering in Africa, North Korea, etc.

Firstly, as fakeologists, we shouldn't presume that the images we are presented with are the reality. I don't think all of Africa is in perpetual suffering. And I'm not even sure what North Korea is. So, the examples of suffering they use are imagined, not personally verified. They are convenient emotional touchstones to convey their point - but not reality.

Secondly, I don't dispute that suffering is a part of this experience. But then so is joy and pleasure. If I were to cherry pick one type emotion and then tarnish my entire reality with that brush (whether good or bad), I would be doing myself a self-inflicted disservice - I would be putting myself into a state of illusion, with no nefarious elite required.

So, I guess my objections are that I dispute the characterisation that 'life is suffering'. For me, this is an erroneous interpretation and then a personification of the objective world, as if it reflects one's personal, emotional state.

Consequent to that, I object to the idea that loosh is something that is collected - and I include negative loosh (suffering) and positive loosh (love) in that.

Perhaps its worth considering how illusion could result in energy collection. In objective reality, there is a system in place, we pay taxes, give our time to it, etc. This really is loosh collection. On account of an illusion (the common belief that government is real, as opposed to a contrived, harnessing idea) we really do give over the fruits of our energy.

In reverse, where is the loosh collection? I really don't see it. It seems like the mis-application of an immersive, real-world concept (external governance (eg government), as opposed to self-governance) to the subjective world of ideas. Government + tax, etc, is the real loosh collection.

To survive, the loosh idea would now have to fall-back into: 'loosh is a metaphor or model, not objective reality'. This is actually fair enough - as long as that it is understood that we are not talking about objective reality, who could object to how individuals want to colour their subjective experience? I've no objection to loosh as a metaphor - but of course, I am also free to metaphorically flush it down the toilet. The problem is that if it stands as objective truth, it becomes an article of faith for a new religion.

PS one final point on the Vinegar Tasters - that I think is incorrect in the original, in my humble opinion. It says:
Each man's expression represents the predominant attitude of his philosophy: Confucianism saw life as sour, in need of rules to correct the degeneration of people; Buddhism saw life as bitter, dominated by pain and suffering due to attaching possessions and material desires; and Taoism saw life as sweet due to it being fundamentally perfect in its natural state.
So it seems that Taoism is the 'best' sort of outlook. My criticism is that Lao Tsu should go "full Vulcan".... so why smile? His response should be flat, not smiling. Ie neutral: :-| not smiling: :-)

Shame the neutral icon on this forum looks a bit worried, but I hope you take the point.
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Re: Forever Conscious Research and Overwatch take on "loosh"

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As usual Al, we mostly disagree...so I will focus on what we are in agreement on. I travelled this world solo pretty extensively when I was young, as I internally didn't believe this place was as presented. I visited Ghana in Africa, India, Mexico, Cambodia, China, Myanmyar, Brazil, Eastern Europe and others. I saw none of the abject poverty that was presented on TV commercials or the news. China was nothing as presented in the media. People were warm and welcoming, using ALL nonverbal communications, as I spoke no Chinese.

I got myself into lots of dangerous situations but that was the price I paid for unfettered access. I don't know what North Korea is. I have no personal experience. So we very much are in agreement regarding the examples of Africa and North Korea as faulty examples. This is likely related to the programming that Mark and Dan have yet to undo. I would prefer to highlight as an example the many suffering autistic children now in the world, regardless of models of causation.

I use the loosh term similar to the way Juan Ayala uses the Lizard people. I call them the enemy, the hive or the parasite. Lizard people is fine with me. We are recognizing the same alien entities. I have no interest in reading Monroe's books or his veracity. Why trust him? I don't I only know what I have experienced in my life and observed in others. It is a model for what I observe on a daily basis in this place. I gave many examples in my posts on Vince's video on emotions. I will add that these so-called holidays are rituals of emotional and attention harvest as well.

The Lizard people are constantly trying to stimulate my emotions, harvest my attention, and throttle my spiritual essence. Best I can do is quarantine myself from their relentless attacks.
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Re: Forever Conscious Research and Overwatch take on "loosh"

Unread post by YouCanCallMeAl »

Cheers db. Always happy to agree to disagree.

Thank you kindly for your testimony from your travels. The stories we are told about everywhere else being terrible simply don't hold up. Your example of autism as an example of suffering, is a far better one than 'North Korea' or 'starving Africans'.

I've no objections to models of lizard people, loosh, the idea of evil, etc. But Mark and Dan don't talk about loosh as a model - it is literal to them.

Mistaking a concept or model for an objectively real 'thing' is sloppy thinking to me. If one is using and talking about a model, one should say so. There are negative repurcussions to treating a model as real too - the believer is under the illusion that they know something, when they only have a belief. Worse still, it is unfalsifiable - there is no test to confirm or deny the hypothesis. This type of thinking closes further investigation by giving the illusion of certainty.

I'm fine to proceed at risk with my best hypothesis (as we all do). For me, this is the application of the scientific method applied personally. The method is sound - it allows for decisions to be made 'at risk' with imperfect information, allows for new and contradictory information to be incorporated, etc. (I don't think it's actually used that much in science, but that's another story.)
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Re: Forever Conscious Research and Overwatch take on "loosh"

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For completeness sake, I am posting the Sanity Machine's response to this video. As I wrote above, I also do not trust Monroe.

I get very bad energy from "the Sanity Machine" oozing arrogance and self-importance, but he makes good points so I will share this here.

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Re: Forever Conscious Research and Overwatch take on "loosh"

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Comment from Vince...

Hi, i don't believe that we consented to be here. As dark as it may seem, i tend to think that we were forced, for several reasons. Also, a friend of mine who had 6, yes, 6 freaking ndes told me that we have absolutely no choice. Of course he could be wrong, or be misguided by entities, but i see 0 proof of consent being respected here, on earth. As the hermetic principle says : "as above, so below". And no, i don't believe that it is "because of life scripts that we consented to" either. We have freewill, therefore, life scripts are a lie from the deceivers. I don't subscribe to drama or personal attacks, but the consent thing is something that is purely based on belief, not evidence. How many times did we hear "I did NOT want to come back" ? Many, if not almost every time. There is no proof that these people somehow "accepted, but can't remember", that is pure speculation, belief. I hope we get a choice though, and get an opportunity to be left alone, in peace. Most likely we got to fight at some point though, one way or another. I don't feel like they will just let us go so easily, just because we choose not to. We are at war. My 2 cents.

i see 0 proof of consent being respected here, on earth.

I will disagree with Vince on that one...I think everything is about consent here, overt or covert. Click the box to agree to the terms and conditions, sign here, agree to accept cookies, sign your tax return, your passport, and your driver's LICENSE. Sign consent to be vaxxed and operated upon.

and the biggie

VOTE.

I am in alignment with AIB on this.

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