Pompeii: Difference between revisions
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| <small>Years</small> || align=center | [[:Category:Prenaissance psyops|79 AD]] (allegedly)<br>[[:Category:1631 psyops|1631]] ([[1631 eruption of Vesuvius|eruption Vesuvio]])<br>[[:Category:1709 psyops|1709]]-[[:Category:1738 psyops|38]] (excavations) | | <small>Years</small> || align=center | [[:Category:Prenaissance psyops|79 AD]] (allegedly)<br>[[:Category:1631 psyops|1631]] ([[1631 eruption of Vesuvius|eruption Vesuvio]])<br>[[:Category:1709 psyops|1709]]-[[:Category:1738 psyops|38]] (excavations) | ||
|- | |- | ||
| <small>Dates</small> || align=center | | | <small>Dates</small> || align=center | [[:Category:08/24 psyops|24 August]] or [[:Category:10/24 psyops|24 October]] | ||
|- | |- | ||
| <small>Place</small> || South of Naples<br>[[:Category:Psyops in Italy|Italy]] | | <small>Place</small> || South of Naples<br>[[:Category:Psyops in Italy|Italy]] & [[:Category:Psyops in Spain|Spanish Empire]] | ||
|- | |- | ||
| [[Perp]]s || [[King Charles III of Spain]], [[Emmanuel Maurice]] (1700s)<br>Benito Mussolini (1923-44) | | [[Perp]]s || [[King Charles III of Spain]],<br>[[Emmanuel Maurice]] (1700s)<br>Benito Mussolini (1923-44) | ||
|- | |- | ||
| colspan=2 bgcolor=brown | | | colspan=2 bgcolor=brown | | ||
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| '''Podcasts''' || align=center | [[FAC 611 - Hidden Histories]] | | '''Podcasts''' || align=center | [[FAC 611 - Hidden Histories]] | ||
|- | |- | ||
| Research || align=center | | | Research || align=center | [[Pompeii#Research|Research]] | ||
|- | |- | ||
| Mainstream || align=center | | | Mainstream || align=center | [[Pompeii#Mainstream|Mainstream]] | ||
|- | |||
| [[Anatoly Fomenko|Fomenko]] || align=center | [[Pompeii#Fomenko|Fomenko]] | |||
|- | |- | ||
| colspan=2 bgcolor=brown | | | colspan=2 bgcolor=brown | | ||
|- | |- | ||
|} | |} | ||
'''''Note: this topic is subject to on-going research, which means conclusions and ideas change quickly based on new sources of information'''''<br> | |||
'''Pompeii''' and '''[[Herculaneum]]''' are allegedly [[Roman era]] archeological sites in southern Italy. They are located near the Tyrrhenian coast, south of Naples. According to mainstream historiography, the towns were destroyed by the 79 AD large Plinian (the origin of the name) volcanic eruption of [[Mount Vesuvius]], Europe's most active volcano.<ref name=WikiPompeii group="W">[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pompeii Wiki - Pompeii]</ref><ref name=WikiHerculaneum group="W">[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Herculaneum Wiki - Herculaneum]</ref> | ''See also [[Date of destruction of Pompeii and Herculaneum]]''<br><br> | ||
'''Pompeii''' and '''[[Herculaneum]]''' are allegedly [[Roman era]] archeological sites in southern Italy. They are located near the Tyrrhenian coast, south of Naples. According to mainstream historiography, the towns were destroyed by the [[Date of destruction of Pompeii and Herculaneum|79 AD]] large Plinian (the origin of the name) volcanic eruption of [[Mount Vesuvius]], Europe's most active volcano.<ref name=WikiPompeii group="W">[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pompeii Wiki - Pompeii]</ref><ref name=WikiHerculaneum group="W">[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Herculaneum Wiki - Herculaneum]</ref> | |||
The sites were discovered "by accident" between 1709 (Herculaneum) and 1738, when two palaces were built which would later host the artifacts found at the sites. Following the [[War of the Spanish Succession]] between the Bourbon and Habsburg families, the Kingdom of Naples changed rule to the Habsburgs (1711-1735), after which king Charles III of Spain became the ruler of Naples. He together with his wife ordered the construction of various buildings around the time. The couple was involved in the construction of villas with sculptors, painters and other builders, and they were on site for decades. | The sites were discovered "by accident" between 1709 (Herculaneum) and 1738, when two palaces were built which would later host the artifacts found at the sites. Following the [[War of the Spanish Succession]] between the Bourbon and Habsburg families, the Kingdom of Naples changed rule to the Habsburgs (1711-1735), after which king Charles III of Spain became the ruler of Naples. He together with his wife ordered the construction of various buildings around the time. The couple was involved in the construction of villas with sculptors, painters and other builders, and they were on site for decades. | ||
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== Summary == | == Summary == | ||
{| class="wikitable" align=right | |||
;79 AD | | colspan=4 bgcolor=darkred | | ||
|- | |||
| rowspan=11 bgcolor=darkred | || colspan=2 align=center | <big>'''[[Pompeii]] & [[Herculaneum]]'''</big> || rowspan=11 bgcolor=darkred | | |||
|- | |||
| colspan=2 bgcolor=gold | | |||
|- | |||
| colspan=2 align=center | [[File:Pompeya.Mapa1.jpg|center|250px]] | |||
|- | |||
| colspan=2 bgcolor=gold | | |||
|- | |||
| align=center | [[Pompeii#Summary|Pompeii]] || align=center | [[Herculaneum#Summary|Herculaneum]] | |||
|- | |||
| align=center | Chapters || align=center | '''[[Pompeii]] & [[Herculaneum]]''' | |||
|- | |||
| align=center | 00 || [[Pompeii/Eruptions|Eruptions of Vesuvius]] | |||
|- | |||
| align=center | 01 || [[Date of destruction of Pompeii and Herculaneum|Date of destruction]] | |||
|- | |||
| align=center | 02 || [[Pompeii/Discovery|Discovery]] | |||
|- | |||
| align=center | 03 || [[Pompeii/Excavation history|Excavation history]] | |||
|- | |||
| align=center | 04 || [[Pompeii/Ideas|Conclusions & ideas]] | |||
|- | |||
| colspan=4 bgcolor=darkred | | |||
|- | |||
|} | |||
<br> | |||
;[[:Category:Prenaissance psyops|79 AD]] | |||
* the alleged eruption could not have destroyed the cities if we have multiple maps of the 16th and 17th centuries where both Pompeii and Herculaneum are shown | * the alleged eruption could not have destroyed the cities if we have multiple maps of the 16th and 17th centuries where both Pompeii and Herculaneum are shown | ||
* only 1 witness account of this eruption exists, that by Pliny the Younger (the origin of the term Plinian eruption) | * only 1 witness account of this eruption exists, that by Pliny the Younger (the origin of the term Plinian eruption) | ||
** his account is not convincing | ** his account is not convincing | ||
; | ;[[:Category:12/16 psyops|16 December]] [[:Category:1631 psyops|1631]] | ||
* "Heavy eruption of Vesuvius, featured on lots of drawings and in a few books" | |||
; | ;[[:Category:1633 psyops|1633]] | ||
* the account by Mascuoli (1633) about the eruption of Vesuvio in [[:Category:1631 psyops|1631]] describe the destruction of Herculaneum and Pompey by some kind of flow, alleged to have happened in 79 AD | |||
* the account by | |||
** the description itself is convincing for the destruction of the two towns | ** the description itself is convincing for the destruction of the two towns | ||
** various sources have described this account as describing those of 79 AD, or at least "very similar" | ** various sources have described this account as describing those of 79 AD, or at least "very similar" | ||
;1709-1716 | ;[[:Category:1709 psyops|1709]]-[[:Category:1716 psyops|16]] | ||
* according to historical documents, Herculaneum was discovered by accident in | * according to historical documents, Herculaneum was discovered by accident in [[:Category:1709 psyops|1709]] | ||
* after Emmanuel went to France in 1716 the excavations were "stopped for almost 20 years" | * after Emmanuel went to France in 1716 the excavations were "stopped for almost 20 years" | ||
;[[:Category:1728 psyops|1728]] | |||
* A work of [[Isaac Newton]]s "The Chronology of Ancient Kingdoms Amended" challenges the then accepted chronology that was (and still is) essentially based on an interpretation of the Bible | |||
; | ;[[:Category:1738 psyops|1738]] | ||
* king Charles III of Spain (ruling for just 3 years) saw the villa of Emmanuel Maurice and where so impressed they wanted to build a palace near the location. | * king Charles III of Spain (ruling for just 3 years) saw the villa of Emmanuel Maurice and where so impressed they wanted to build a palace near the location. | ||
* in 1738 the finds were made public with the convenient construction of not one, but two palaces and a third already existing one | * in 1738 the finds were made public with the convenient construction of not one, but two palaces and a third already existing one | ||
* the most important finds in the "Theater of Herculaneum" were "discovered" at just 600 m from what later became the main museum, the Palazzo .... | * the most important finds in the "Theater of Herculaneum" were "discovered" at just 600 m from what later became the main museum, the Palazzo .... | ||
;[[:Category:1747 psyops|1747]] | |||
;1747 | |||
* Emmanuel Maurice marries the 30 years junior Innocentia ..., an "immensely wealthy" woman | * Emmanuel Maurice marries the 30 years junior Innocentia ..., an "immensely wealthy" woman | ||
* family in law involved with Habsburgs and Bourbon families | * family in law involved with Habsburgs and Bourbon families | ||
;1748 | ;[[:Category:1748 psyops|1748]] | ||
* Emmanuel Maurice is made Duke of Elbeuf | * Emmanuel Maurice is made Duke of Elbeuf | ||
; | ;[[:Category:1748 psyops|1748]]-[[:Category:1789 psyops|89]] | ||
* | * Habsburg rule in HRE, Bourbon rule in Spain/Naples | ||
;[[:Category:1789 psyops|1789]]-[[:Category:1814 psyops|1814]] | |||
* Napoleon-Naples | |||
;1819 | [[File:Priape Casa Viettii.jpg|right|250px|thumb|Priape in Casa dei Vettii]] | ||
* Charles visits Pompeii with his kids and is "appalled" by the naked art | ;[[:Category:1819 psyops|1819]] | ||
* Charles (who?) visits Pompeii with his kids and is "appalled" by the naked art | |||
;1863 | ;[[:Category:1860s psyops|1863]] | ||
* Giuseppe Fiorelli, the director of the excavations, | * Under direction of Giuseppe Fiorelli, the director of the excavations, the first [[Plaster casts of Pompeii|plaster casts]] are made in Pompeii, allegedly reconstructing the bodies by pouring plaster in air pockets that where left by human (or animal) remains. | ||
;1923-44 | ;[[:Category:1923 psyops|1923]]-[[:Category:1944 psyops|44]] | ||
* the fascist regime of [[Nazionism#Benito Mussolini|Benito Mussolini]] were very important in the "restoration" of Herculaneum to "in an attempt to recreate the glory of the Roman empire".<ref name=WorldArcheoHerculaneum group="M">[https://www.world-archaeology.com/features/herculaneum-saving-the-site/ World Archeology - Herculaneum]</ref> | * the fascist regime of [[Nazionism#Benito Mussolini|Benito Mussolini]] were very important in the "restoration" of Herculaneum to "in an attempt to recreate the glory of the Roman empire".<ref name=WorldArcheoHerculaneum group="M">[https://www.world-archaeology.com/features/herculaneum-saving-the-site/ World Archeology - Herculaneum]</ref> | ||
;1943 | ;[[:Category:1943 psyops|1943]] | ||
* bombing of Pompeii during [[World War II]] by Allied forces, 163 bombs were dropped. | * bombing of Pompeii during [[World War II]] by Allied forces, allegedly 163 bombs were dropped. | ||
* | * After the war, many of the structures were rebuilt | ||
;2003? | ;2003? | ||
* Russian mathemathician T. Fomenko | * Russian mathemathician [[Anatoly Fomenko|Anatoly T. Fomenko]] in his book: "The Issue with Chronology" casts serious doubts on the dating of the ruins writing that "Pompeii might have been destroyed and buried by ashes during the well-known eruption of the Vesuvius that occurred in 1500 or even by the eruption of 1631. | ||
;2009 | ;[[:Category:2009 psyops|2009]] | ||
* Dipl.-Ing. (TU) Andreas Tschurilow, Deggendorf, Bavaria, Germany publishes a book"Features of the Domenico Fontana’s Water Conduit (the Canal of Count Sarno) and the Date of Pompeii Destruction" arguing for a destruction date of 1631 | * Dipl.-Ing. (TU) Andreas Tschurilow, Deggendorf, Bavaria, Germany publishes a book "Features of the Domenico Fontana’s Water Conduit (the Canal of Count Sarno) and the Date of Pompeii Destruction" arguing for a destruction date of 1631 | ||
; | ;[[:Category:2018 psyops|2018]] | ||
* | *First cast allegedly made of a horse in Pompeii. | ||
*Photos from this cast differ quite a lot across publications, for example in some of the photos it has an ear. | |||
* | <ref name=offhorsecast group="M">[http://pompeiisites.org/en/comunicati/a-third-thoroughbred-with-an-elaborate-military-harness-has-been-discovered-in-the-stable-of-civita-giuliana/ Pompeisites.org - A third thoroughbred with an elaborate military harness has been discovered in the stable of Civita Giuliana]</ref> | ||
<ref name=horsecastlivescience group="M">[https://www.livescience.com/62595-pompeii-horse-found.html livescience.com - Pompeii horse found]</ref> | |||
<ref name=horsecastexpress group="M">[https://www.express.co.uk/news/world/958542/pompeii-roman-horse-discovered-mount-vesuvius express.co.uk – Discovered: ancient remains of roman horse]</ref> | |||
<ref name=horsecastbbc group="M">[https://www.livescience.com/62595-pompeii-horse-found.html livescience.com - Pompeii horse found still wearing harness]</ref> | |||
== Leon Battista Alberti == | |||
* | * [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Leon_Battista_Alberti Leon Battista Alberti]<ref name=WikiAlberti group="W">[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Leon_Battista_Alberti Wiki - Leon Battista Alberti]</ref> | ||
<blockquote>"During this time he studied the ancient ruins, which excited his interest in architecture and strongly influenced the form of the buildings that he designed | |||
He distinguished himself as a writer while he was still a child at school, and by the age of twenty had written a play which was successfully passed off as a genuine piece of Classical literature. | |||
== | In 1452, he completed [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/De_re_aedificatoria ''De re aedificatoria''],<ref name=WikiDeRe group="W">[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/De_re_aedificatoria Wiki - ''De re aedificatoria'']</ref> a treatise on architecture, using as its basis the work of Vitruvius and influenced by [or influenced the faking of?] the archaeological remains of Rome. The work was not published until 1485. | ||
'''De re aedificatoria remained the classic treatise on architecture from the 16th until the 18th century'''.[no ref given]"</blockquote> | |||
== | == Bombing in WWII (1943) and reconstruction == | ||
* In 1943 during [[World War II]], 163 bombs were dropped by Allied forces. *"After the war, many of the structures were rebuilt with the help of an American and British team of experts. The renovation of Pompeii started in 1944 and continued for more than 15 years." | |||
* On this site you can compare the photos from before and after the reconstruction[https://www.getty.edu/art/exhibitions/pompeii/interactives/bombing/index.html# compare photos of WWII and today] | |||
=== Benito Mussolini (1923-44) === | |||
== Views by [[Anatoly Fomenko]] == | |||
* [https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/643518802549538868/646100844026134530/unknown.png Fomenko about "Renaissance man" Alberti] | |||
* [https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/643518802549538868/646101111563878400/unknown.png Fomenko about "Renaissance man" Alberti, part 2] | |||
== | == Erotic art == | ||
Sometime in the "re"construction of Pompeii, many murals explicitly depicting sexual acts were added. An account from 1819 speaks about the "appalling" images. If that testimony is credible, the murals must have been made before 1819, and probably after 1709, when the excavations "were halted for almost 20 years". | |||
* Where does this come from? | |||
** Hypothesis [[User:Gaia1|Gaia]]: "The time of Marquis De Sade, French-Savoy, was the "1960s of history"; late 1700s" | |||
** Erotic art must have been very specific to an age and thus typifies when this overprinting was done; compare: Making black versions of originally white historical figures in Hollywood movies today | |||
* | |||
[[User:Gaia1|Gaia]]: | |||
* | |||
* | |||
<gallery mode=packed heights=180px> | |||
File:Pompeii-wall painting.jpg | |||
File:Pompeya Erotica2.jpg | |||
File:Pompeya erótica5.jpg | |||
File:Sexual scene on pompeian mural 4.jpg | |||
File:Pompeya erótica3.jpg | |||
</gallery> | |||
== Hypothesis matrix == | |||
{| class="wikitable" style="font-size: 85%" | |||
|+Hypotheses about the destruction of Pompeii and Herculaneum | |||
|- | |||
! width=200px | Event/claim/piece of evidence !! width=150px | Mainstream !! width=150px | [[User:Seneca|Seneca]] !! width=150px | [[User:Gaia1|Gaia]] !! width=150px | [[Anatoly Fomenko|Dr. Fomenko]] | |||
|- | |||
| '''Eruption of Vesuvius''' - Herculaneum || align=center | [[:Category:Prenaissance psyops|79 AD]] || align=center | [[:Category:1631 psyops|1631]] || align=center | [[:Category:1631 psyops|1631]] || align=center | [[:Category:1631 psyops|1631]] | |||
|- | |||
| '''Eruption of Vesuvius''' - Pompeii || align=center | [[:Category:Prenaissance psyops|79 AD]] || align=center | [[:Category:1694 psyops|1694]] || align=center | [[:Category:1694 psyops|1694]] || align=center | [[:Category:1631 psyops|1631]] | |||
|- | |||
| '''Death of Pliny the Elder''' || align=center | [[:Category:Prenaissance psyops|79 AD]] || align=center | ... || align=center | [[:Category:1482 psyops|1482]] || align=center | ... | |||
|- | |||
| '''Testimony by Pliny the Younger''' || align=center | [[:Category:Prenaissance psyops|79 AD]] || align=center | ... || align=center | [[:Category:1631 psyops|1631]] || align=center | ... | |||
|- | |||
| '''Construction styles''' || align=center | [[:Category:Prenaissance psyops|"Roman"]] & reconstructions || align=center | ... || align=center | '''''Non'''''-Roman;<br><small>the Roman era seems more like a fashion of the Renaissance time than a historical period</small><br><small>At least 4 construction styles recognized;<br>A - [https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/643518802549538868/643561842999951388/21_-_Basalt_wall.jpg round basalt cobbles with cement]<br>B - [https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/643518802549538868/643519093730967572/15_-_Very_different_styles.jpg horizontal "tile bricks" with other methods]<br>C - [https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/643518802549538868/643519073493188621/12_-_Murals_-_broken_2_style_columns_-_corner_construction.jpg angular limestone (?) clasts in wall]<br>D - [https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/643518802549538868/643519020980633620/05_-_Temple_columns_-_different_rock_types.jpg crazy columns]</small> || align=center | ... | |||
|- | |||
| '''Excavation history''' || align=center | [[:Category:1700-1800 psyops|1709+]] || align=center | ... || align=center | <small>[[:Category:1700-1800 psyops|1709-38]] (faking the whole Roman shebang)<br>[[:Category:1700-1800 psyops|1738-48]] (promoting the thing; Maurice)<br>[[:Category:1700-1800 psyops|1780s?]] (adding erotic art and other things)<br>[[:Category:1800-1900 psyops|1865+]] (faking more under Unified Italy)<br>[[:Category:1900-2000 psyops|1923-43]] (faking more to promote the Roman Empire narrative by Mussolini)<br>[[:Category:1944 psyops|1944]] (faking even more by "reconstruction" after WWII bombings)<br>[[:Category:1950s psyops|1950s]] (matching the "Roman" finds in London; see [[2010 - Bloomberg tablets|Bloomberg tablets]] and [[1946 - Dead Sea Scrolls]])<br>[[:Category:2000-2100 psyops|21st century]] (faking more and more)</small> || align=center | ... | |||
|- | |||
| '''"Roman" or not?''' || align=center | yes || align=center | ? || align=center | no || align=center | no | |||
|- | |||
| '''Further research''' || colspan=4 | 1 - Geologic comparison of "79" and 1631 eruptions<br>2 - Wider scope of the "Roman" era<br>3 - Dr. Fomenko's views<br>4 - When was the erotic art added and under whom? | |||
|- | |||
|} | |||
== See also == | == See also == | ||
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* [[1904 - Stonehenge]] | * [[1904 - Stonehenge]] | ||
* [[List of historical maps|1513 - Piri Reis map]] | * [[List of historical maps|1513 - Piri Reis map]] | ||
* [[Tiwanaku]] | |||
* [[Anatoly Fomenko]] | * [[Anatoly Fomenko]] | ||
** [[Anatoly Fomenko#Large volcanic eruptions|Large volcanic eruptions in history]] | ** [[Anatoly Fomenko#Large volcanic eruptions|Large volcanic eruptions in history]] | ||
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=== Bibliography and further reading === | === Bibliography and further reading === | ||
* [https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/ | * [https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/642385674825367581/647038594506293259/2016_-_Larsson__Larsson_-_50_-_Astronomical_dating_of_Roman_time.pdf 2016 - Larsson & Larsson - 50 - Astronomical dating of Roman time] | ||
* [https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/615664911678308509/644710792914010131/2010_-_Buontempo_et_al._-_07_-_Perspectives_for_the_Radiography_of_Mt._Vesuvius_by_cosmic_ray_muons.pdf 2010 - Buontempo et al. - 07 - Perspectives for the Radiography of Mt. Vesuvius by cosmic ray muons] | * [https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/615664911678308509/644710792914010131/2010_-_Buontempo_et_al._-_07_-_Perspectives_for_the_Radiography_of_Mt._Vesuvius_by_cosmic_ray_muons.pdf 2010 - Buontempo et al. - 07 - Perspectives for the Radiography of Mt. Vesuvius by cosmic ray muons] | ||
;[[1600 Huaynaputina eruption]] | |||
* [https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/615664911678308509/642875387994701828/2016_-_Fei_-_12_-_1600_AD_Huaynaputina_Eruption_Peru_Abrupt_Cooling_and_Epidemics_in_China_and_Korea.pdf 2016 - Fei - 12 - 1600 AD Huaynaputina Eruption Peru - Abrupt Cooling and Epidemics in China and Korea] | * [https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/615664911678308509/642875387994701828/2016_-_Fei_-_12_-_1600_AD_Huaynaputina_Eruption_Peru_Abrupt_Cooling_and_Epidemics_in_China_and_Korea.pdf 2016 - Fei - 12 - 1600 AD Huaynaputina Eruption Peru - Abrupt Cooling and Epidemics in China and Korea] | ||
* [https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/615664911678308509/642875030438543360/1998_-_De_Silva_-_05_-_Global_influence_of_the_AD_1600_eruption_of_Huaynaputina_Peru.pdf 1998 - De Silva - 05 - Global influence of the AD 1600 eruption of Huaynaputina Peru] | * [https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/615664911678308509/642875030438543360/1998_-_De_Silva_-_05_-_Global_influence_of_the_AD_1600_eruption_of_Huaynaputina_Peru.pdf 1998 - De Silva - 05 - Global influence of the AD 1600 eruption of Huaynaputina Peru] | ||
==== Geology ==== | |||
* [https://www.researchgate.net/publication/311162187_The_Water_Supply_System_of_Ancient_Pompeii_Southern_Italy_From_Resource_to_Geohazard 2016 - Senatore et al. - 20 - The Water Supply System of Ancient Pompeii (Southern Italy): From Resource to Geohazard] | |||
* [https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/615664911678308509/644710785532035082/2007_-_Scandone__Giacomelli_-_10_-_Precursors_of_eruptions_at_Vesuvius.pdf 2007 - Scandone & Giacomelli - 10 - Precursors of eruptions at Vesuvius] | |||
* [https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/615664911678308509/644710781866344488/2000_-_Arrighi_et_al._-_02_-_Violent_strombolian_and_subplinian_eruptions_at_Vesuvius_during_post-16.pdf 2000 - Arrighi et al. - 02 - Violent strombolian and subplinian eruptions at Vesuvius] | |||
==== Construction styles ==== | |||
* [https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/615664911678308509/646872237340622863/2019_-_Hurley__Murray_-_78_-_Antiquity.pdf 2019 - Hurley & Murray - 78 - Antiquity] | |||
* [https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/615664911678308509/646872201622192128/2017_-_Juliana_Nicole_van_Roggen_-_35_-_Urban_planning__cultural_identity_in_Pompeii_-_from_the_Alts.pdf 2017 - Juliana Nicole van Roggen - 35 - Urban planning & cultural identity in Pompeii - from the Altstadt to Vitrivius] | |||
* [https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/615664911678308509/646872230810353674/2017_-_Velo_Gala__Garriguet_Mata_-_18_-_Roman_window_glass_-_an_approach_to_its_study_through_iconog.pdf 2017 - Velo Gala & Garriguet Mata - 18 - Roman window glass - an approach to its study through iconography] | |||
* [https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/615664911678308509/646872221117054976/2012_-_Viitanen__Ynnila_-_15_-_Patrons_and_Clients_in_Roman_Pompeii_Social_control_in_the_cityscape_.pdf 2012 - Viitanen & Ynnilä - 15 - Patrons and Clients in Roman Pompeii - Social control in the cityscape] | |||
* [https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/615664911678308509/646872196483907594/2009_-_Lynne_Lancaster_-_28_-_Roman_engineering_and_construction.pdf 2009 - Lynne Lancaster - 28 - Roman engineering and construction] | |||
* [https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/615664911678308509/646872207871442944/2008_-_Lare_Ozgenel_-_25_-_A_tale_of_two_cities_-_in_search_for_ancient_Pompeii__Herculaneum.pdf 2008 - Lare Özgenel - 25 - A tale of two cities - in search for ancient Pompeii & Herculaneum] | |||
* [https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/615664911678308509/646872232022507520/2008_-_Stephan_Mols_-_16_-_Ancient_Roman_household_furniture_and_its_use_-_from_Herculaneum_to_the_R.pdf 2008 - Stephan Mols - 16 - Ancient Roman household furniture and its use - from Herculaneum to the Rhine] | |||
* [https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/615664911678308509/646872193589837824/YEAR_-_Andrew_Wallace_Hadrill_-_14_-_Pompeian_identities_-_between_Oscan_Samnite_Greek_Roman_and_Pun.pdf Andrew Wallace Hadrill - 14 - Pompeian identities - between Oscan Samnite Greek Roman and Pun] | |||
==== Fomenko ==== | ==== Fomenko ==== | ||
* [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VVH8eyfToR4 YouTube - History: Fiction or Science? (reading) part 1] | |||
* [https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/615664911678308509/642131168661340160/2012_-_A.T.Fomenko__G.V.Nosovskiy_-_485_-_How_It_Was_In_Reality.pdf 2012 - A.T. Fomenko & G.V. Nosovskiy - 485 - How It Was In Reality] | |||
* [https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/615664911678308509/642473816458657812/1992_-_Fomenko_Kalashnikov_Nosovsky_-_18_-_The_Dating_of_Ptolemys_Almagest.pdf 1992 - Fomenko, Kalashnikov & Nosovsky - 18 - The Dating of Ptolemy's Almagest] | |||
* [https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/615664911678308509/642473816378966027/1989_-_Fomenko_Kalashnikov_Nosovsky_-_27_-_Ptolemys_Almagest.pdf 1989 - Fomenko, Kalashnikov & Nosovsky - 27 - Ptolemy's Almagest] | * [https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/615664911678308509/642473816378966027/1989_-_Fomenko_Kalashnikov_Nosovsky_-_27_-_Ptolemys_Almagest.pdf 1989 - Fomenko, Kalashnikov & Nosovsky - 27 - Ptolemy's Almagest] | ||
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[[Category: | [[Category:Pompeii| ]] | ||
[[Category:Psyops in Italy]] | [[Category:Psyops in Italy]] | ||
[[Category:Psyops in Spain]] |
Latest revision as of 20:43, 3 December 2020
Pompeii | |
File:I didn't have time, Pompeii.jpg | |
Type 1 | Archeology |
Type 2 | Forgery |
Type 3 | Myth creation |
Years | 79 AD (allegedly) 1631 (eruption Vesuvio) 1709-38 (excavations) |
Dates | 24 August or 24 October |
Place | South of Naples Italy & Spanish Empire |
Perps | King Charles III of Spain, Emmanuel Maurice (1700s) Benito Mussolini (1923-44) |
Information | |
Podcasts | FAC 611 - Hidden Histories |
Research | Research |
Mainstream | Mainstream |
Fomenko | Fomenko |
Note: this topic is subject to on-going research, which means conclusions and ideas change quickly based on new sources of information
See also Date of destruction of Pompeii and Herculaneum
Pompeii and Herculaneum are allegedly Roman era archeological sites in southern Italy. They are located near the Tyrrhenian coast, south of Naples. According to mainstream historiography, the towns were destroyed by the 79 AD large Plinian (the origin of the name) volcanic eruption of Mount Vesuvius, Europe's most active volcano.[W 1][W 2]
The sites were discovered "by accident" between 1709 (Herculaneum) and 1738, when two palaces were built which would later host the artifacts found at the sites. Following the War of the Spanish Succession between the Bourbon and Habsburg families, the Kingdom of Naples changed rule to the Habsburgs (1711-1735), after which king Charles III of Spain became the ruler of Naples. He together with his wife ordered the construction of various buildings around the time. The couple was involved in the construction of villas with sculptors, painters and other builders, and they were on site for decades.
Emmanuel Maurice bought property around 1709 after there were discovered some marbles and started excavating until he left for France in 1716. He is not supposed to have met Charles but it is mentioned that the couple had seen his Villa in 1738.
Convicts, slaves and children were used in the excavation of Herculaneum and Pompeii.
Summary
Pompeii & Herculaneum | |||
Pompeii | Herculaneum | ||
Chapters | Pompeii & Herculaneum | ||
00 | Eruptions of Vesuvius | ||
01 | Date of destruction | ||
02 | Discovery | ||
03 | Excavation history | ||
04 | Conclusions & ideas | ||
- the alleged eruption could not have destroyed the cities if we have multiple maps of the 16th and 17th centuries where both Pompeii and Herculaneum are shown
- only 1 witness account of this eruption exists, that by Pliny the Younger (the origin of the term Plinian eruption)
- his account is not convincing
- "Heavy eruption of Vesuvius, featured on lots of drawings and in a few books"
- the account by Mascuoli (1633) about the eruption of Vesuvio in 1631 describe the destruction of Herculaneum and Pompey by some kind of flow, alleged to have happened in 79 AD
- the description itself is convincing for the destruction of the two towns
- various sources have described this account as describing those of 79 AD, or at least "very similar"
- according to historical documents, Herculaneum was discovered by accident in 1709
- after Emmanuel went to France in 1716 the excavations were "stopped for almost 20 years"
- A work of Isaac Newtons "The Chronology of Ancient Kingdoms Amended" challenges the then accepted chronology that was (and still is) essentially based on an interpretation of the Bible
- king Charles III of Spain (ruling for just 3 years) saw the villa of Emmanuel Maurice and where so impressed they wanted to build a palace near the location.
- in 1738 the finds were made public with the convenient construction of not one, but two palaces and a third already existing one
- the most important finds in the "Theater of Herculaneum" were "discovered" at just 600 m from what later became the main museum, the Palazzo ....
- Emmanuel Maurice marries the 30 years junior Innocentia ..., an "immensely wealthy" woman
- family in law involved with Habsburgs and Bourbon families
- Emmanuel Maurice is made Duke of Elbeuf
- Habsburg rule in HRE, Bourbon rule in Spain/Naples
- Napoleon-Naples
- Charles (who?) visits Pompeii with his kids and is "appalled" by the naked art
- Under direction of Giuseppe Fiorelli, the director of the excavations, the first plaster casts are made in Pompeii, allegedly reconstructing the bodies by pouring plaster in air pockets that where left by human (or animal) remains.
- the fascist regime of Benito Mussolini were very important in the "restoration" of Herculaneum to "in an attempt to recreate the glory of the Roman empire".[M 1]
- bombing of Pompeii during World War II by Allied forces, allegedly 163 bombs were dropped.
- After the war, many of the structures were rebuilt
- 2003?
- Russian mathemathician Anatoly T. Fomenko in his book: "The Issue with Chronology" casts serious doubts on the dating of the ruins writing that "Pompeii might have been destroyed and buried by ashes during the well-known eruption of the Vesuvius that occurred in 1500 or even by the eruption of 1631.
- Dipl.-Ing. (TU) Andreas Tschurilow, Deggendorf, Bavaria, Germany publishes a book "Features of the Domenico Fontana’s Water Conduit (the Canal of Count Sarno) and the Date of Pompeii Destruction" arguing for a destruction date of 1631
- First cast allegedly made of a horse in Pompeii.
- Photos from this cast differ quite a lot across publications, for example in some of the photos it has an ear.
Leon Battista Alberti
"During this time he studied the ancient ruins, which excited his interest in architecture and strongly influenced the form of the buildings that he designed
He distinguished himself as a writer while he was still a child at school, and by the age of twenty had written a play which was successfully passed off as a genuine piece of Classical literature.
In 1452, he completed De re aedificatoria,[W 4] a treatise on architecture, using as its basis the work of Vitruvius and influenced by [or influenced the faking of?] the archaeological remains of Rome. The work was not published until 1485.
De re aedificatoria remained the classic treatise on architecture from the 16th until the 18th century.[no ref given]"
Bombing in WWII (1943) and reconstruction
- In 1943 during World War II, 163 bombs were dropped by Allied forces. *"After the war, many of the structures were rebuilt with the help of an American and British team of experts. The renovation of Pompeii started in 1944 and continued for more than 15 years."
- On this site you can compare the photos from before and after the reconstructioncompare photos of WWII and today
Benito Mussolini (1923-44)
Views by Anatoly Fomenko
Erotic art
Sometime in the "re"construction of Pompeii, many murals explicitly depicting sexual acts were added. An account from 1819 speaks about the "appalling" images. If that testimony is credible, the murals must have been made before 1819, and probably after 1709, when the excavations "were halted for almost 20 years".
- Where does this come from?
- Hypothesis Gaia: "The time of Marquis De Sade, French-Savoy, was the "1960s of history"; late 1700s"
- Erotic art must have been very specific to an age and thus typifies when this overprinting was done; compare: Making black versions of originally white historical figures in Hollywood movies today
Hypothesis matrix
Event/claim/piece of evidence | Mainstream | Seneca | Gaia | Dr. Fomenko |
---|---|---|---|---|
Eruption of Vesuvius - Herculaneum | 79 AD | 1631 | 1631 | 1631 |
Eruption of Vesuvius - Pompeii | 79 AD | 1694 | 1694 | 1631 |
Death of Pliny the Elder | 79 AD | ... | 1482 | ... |
Testimony by Pliny the Younger | 79 AD | ... | 1631 | ... |
Construction styles | "Roman" & reconstructions | ... | Non-Roman; the Roman era seems more like a fashion of the Renaissance time than a historical period At least 4 construction styles recognized; A - round basalt cobbles with cement B - horizontal "tile bricks" with other methods C - angular limestone (?) clasts in wall D - crazy columns |
... |
Excavation history | 1709+ | ... | 1709-38 (faking the whole Roman shebang) 1738-48 (promoting the thing; Maurice) 1780s? (adding erotic art and other things) 1865+ (faking more under Unified Italy) 1923-43 (faking more to promote the Roman Empire narrative by Mussolini) 1944 (faking even more by "reconstruction" after WWII bombings) 1950s (matching the "Roman" finds in London; see Bloomberg tablets and 1946 - Dead Sea Scrolls) 21st century (faking more and more) |
... |
"Roman" or not? | yes | ? | no | no |
Further research | 1 - Geologic comparison of "79" and 1631 eruptions 2 - Wider scope of the "Roman" era 3 - Dr. Fomenko's views 4 - When was the erotic art added and under whom? |
See also
- FAC 611 - "Hidden Histories"
- 2010 - Bloomberg tablets
- 1912 - Voynich manuscript
- 1904 - Stonehenge
- 1513 - Piri Reis map
- Tiwanaku
- Anatoly Fomenko
References
Fomenko
Other research
Wikipedia
Other mainstream
- ↑ World Archeology - Herculaneum
- ↑ Pompeisites.org - A third thoroughbred with an elaborate military harness has been discovered in the stable of Civita Giuliana
- ↑ livescience.com - Pompeii horse found
- ↑ express.co.uk – Discovered: ancient remains of roman horse
- ↑ livescience.com - Pompeii horse found still wearing harness
Bibliography and further reading
- 2016 - Larsson & Larsson - 50 - Astronomical dating of Roman time
- 2010 - Buontempo et al. - 07 - Perspectives for the Radiography of Mt. Vesuvius by cosmic ray muons
- 2016 - Fei - 12 - 1600 AD Huaynaputina Eruption Peru - Abrupt Cooling and Epidemics in China and Korea
- 1998 - De Silva - 05 - Global influence of the AD 1600 eruption of Huaynaputina Peru
Geology
- 2016 - Senatore et al. - 20 - The Water Supply System of Ancient Pompeii (Southern Italy): From Resource to Geohazard
- 2007 - Scandone & Giacomelli - 10 - Precursors of eruptions at Vesuvius
- 2000 - Arrighi et al. - 02 - Violent strombolian and subplinian eruptions at Vesuvius
Construction styles
- 2019 - Hurley & Murray - 78 - Antiquity
- 2017 - Juliana Nicole van Roggen - 35 - Urban planning & cultural identity in Pompeii - from the Altstadt to Vitrivius
- 2017 - Velo Gala & Garriguet Mata - 18 - Roman window glass - an approach to its study through iconography
- 2012 - Viitanen & Ynnilä - 15 - Patrons and Clients in Roman Pompeii - Social control in the cityscape
- 2009 - Lynne Lancaster - 28 - Roman engineering and construction
- 2008 - Lare Özgenel - 25 - A tale of two cities - in search for ancient Pompeii & Herculaneum
- 2008 - Stephan Mols - 16 - Ancient Roman household furniture and its use - from Herculaneum to the Rhine
- Andrew Wallace Hadrill - 14 - Pompeian identities - between Oscan Samnite Greek Roman and Pun
Fomenko
- YouTube - History: Fiction or Science? (reading) part 1
- 2012 - A.T. Fomenko & G.V. Nosovskiy - 485 - How It Was In Reality
- 1992 - Fomenko, Kalashnikov & Nosovsky - 18 - The Dating of Ptolemy's Almagest
- 1989 - Fomenko, Kalashnikov & Nosovsky - 27 - Ptolemy's Almagest