Smolensk plane crash 2010, Polish President "dead"

[rachel]

Who knew how prescient this thread would end up being? Donald Tusk is Poland's new PM as of yesterday.

https://x.com/i/status/1734271963156173160

And the Carney Show continues, that's film maker, now parliamentarian, Grzegorz Braun today. His uncompleted Smolensk documentary features lots in this thread.

https://x.com/i/status/1734610525076791651

Grzegorz Braun.gif (14.63 MiB) Viewed 5591 times

This quote from him in 2016...borne out as fact by the evidence:

One can not be sure, that the delegation of VIP's including the president and the first lady actually left Warsaw, and if they did, one can not be certain their TU-154M crashed in Smolensk. Nor can one be certain they actually died.

Braun later changes his tune in his documentary. He makes a big play regarding Tusk's historic ties to Putin in part two, and the idea they plotted to have Lech Kaczyński assassinated, the English version subsequently turned into age-restricted content on youtube after being embedded on this thread. See a currently unrestricted version of the three parts here.

And now we have Tusk back as Poland's Prime Minister. I had a feeling the Smolensk plane crash was going to feature in the future. WWII started by the UK declaring war on Germany after it invaded Poland; and there is no evidence our overlords have any new scripts for where they want to get us.


Donald Tusk appointed as Prime Minister by President Lech Kaczyński on 9 November 2007 [911]


This is perhaps my favourite frame from the documentary given who is pictured in the centre, Antoni Macierewicz, and the caption below him...Yes indeed, as he's the guy leading the "96 murdered by the Russians" narrative. I doubt Grzegorz Braun chose that randomly.



April 12, 2022
https://polishnews.co.uk/the-smolensk-d ... statement/

It would be interesting to see if the images are any different to the alleged photos floating around since 2011. The video evidence, taken minutes after the alleged crash from two different locations show no bodies, and for that matter, no luggage, no seats, no aeroplane innards. Quite a feat since there were allegedly 96 people on board.

[napoleon]

i get dracula and frankenstein vibes from this ,i always get an overall images,and its seems ceremonial in the hills in nature ,i dont know but im enjoying you pulling at it

[rachel]

Got more on that Grzegorz Braun stunt.

Far-right Polish MP used a fire extinguisher to put out Hanukkah candles in parliament, provoking outrage and leading the speaker to exclude him from the sitting.

The disruption came ahead of a key vote on whether to approve newly appointed pro-EU prime minister Donald Tusk.

Apparently Donald Tusk's party came second. But I'm guessing Poland has Proportional Representation, and this is what gifted him the premiership. ...If you ask me, an unusual high turn out is more indicative of a rigged election using postal ballots...ask Joe Biden, the most popular presidential winner in U.S. history, or Donald Trump, the most popular presidential loser in U.S. history (all in the same U.S. election).

https://www.electoral-reform.org.uk/how ... -election/

How proportional representation worked in the Polish election
26th October 2023

With a population of around 40 million, Poland is the European Union’s fifth largest member and by far the largest of its eastern states. It is therefore worth taking notice of any national election in Poland. However, this week’s Polish parliamentary elections were particularly notable, for a number of reasons.

Firstly, some very welcome news for representative democracy, the turnout of 74%, the highest in a Polish parliamentary election since the fall of communist rule in the country. This was much higher than the 62% recorded at the previous parliamentary elections in 2019 and higher than the turnout of any UK general election since 1992. Of particular note was the high turnout among young people, which is an encouraging development when youth turnout tends to be lower than average across many democracies.

Although Poland has a directly elected President, who plays an important role in the political system, the government is headed by a Prime Minister. This is a politician from a party or coalition of parties commanding a majority in the Polish lower house of parliament, the Sejm, which consists of 460 deputies. The Sejm is more powerful than the upper house, the Senate, which consists of 100 Senators.

The result of this week’s Sejm election heralds a potentially big turning point for Poland and indeed Europe. For the past eight years, the Polish government has been led by Prime Ministers from the populist-right, ultra-conservative and somewhat EU-sceptic, Law & Justice party (PiS). At the parliamentary elections of 2015 and 2019, the United Right alliance, consisting of PiS and a handful of much smaller parties, won just over half (51%) of the 460 Sejm seats, giving them an overall majority on both occasions.

In this week’s election, however, PiS, although still the largest single party, lost their majority of seats in the Sejm. Although the PiS-affiliated President, Andrzej Duda, may grant PiS the first opportunity to try to form a government this seems destined to end in failure, as even if the deputies of the far-right Confederation alliance are added to United Right’s deputies, they would still be short of a majority.

The most likely outcome of the election will be a coalition government, formed of three electoral alliances: the centrist Civic Coalition, headed by former Prime Minister Donald Tusk; the centre-right Third Way; and The Left, a centre-left alliance. As the leader of the largest of these groups, Civic Coalition, Tusk is likely to again become Prime Minister.

As in most European countries, a form of proportional representation, in this case a Party List system, is used for elections to the Sejm. Each of the electoral alliances put up a list of candidates in each of the 41 constituencies, with multiple members being elected in each, based on the performance of the parties in that seat...

And what is the first think Donald Tusk says on becoming Polish Prime Minister?

Like I say, they've got no new scripts.

As they get their old team back together...The Return of the Seven.

[pasterno]

Very interesting thread, thank you for all the research.

I know Poland from personal experience. Allow me to share my thoughts and opinions on this matter from a geopolitical perspective.

I think we must see Poland in the same light as Germany and Ukraine.

After WW2, Germany turned into a US colony with the US army stationed there and the Basic Law for Germany written in 1949.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Basic_Law ... of_Germany

Poland and Ukraine turned into USSR colonies, with the same methods applied as the US did in Europe.

For dominating European nations, controlling the heart of Europe is key. This axis includes Germany, Poland, and Ukraine.

In 2004, Poland became a crucial extension of the empire in the EU; as pivotal to the axis as Ukraine is today.

Today, the spotlight remains on these countries - Germany, Poland, Ukraine - as they pose substantial risks to the empire. This is evident in the meddling in German politics and economy. (A little-known fact: before the 2008 crisis, Europe was on track to overtake the US as the world's strongest power block, with Germany at its core.)

Also, it's important to remember that Poland and Ukraine are major Jewish enclaves in Europe, staunch allies of the empire. Poland, hosting the Holocaust hoax camps, is a key supporter of that narrative.

Poland, a deeply Catholic country, presents its own risks to the empire. The initial years of Polish integration into the empire were fraught with problems, and the general sentiment was quite anti-EU.

They just had Russian communism for many years and now the people were put in EU/US communism!

Many protests in Brussels:

https://www.reuters.com/article/uk-pola ... 120081001/

By 2009, Poland nearly broke away from the EU. The people, longing for freedom after Russian communism, ended up under a new form of control. Kaczyński posed a huge threat to the empire.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lech_Kaczyński

As mayor of Warsaw in 2004/2005, after joining the empire in 2004, Kaczyński banned the Warsaw gay pride parade in 2004 and 2005, not aligning with the new ruler. The rainbow flag symbolizes allegiance to these new rulers. In 2005, Kaczyński permitted a counter-demonstration, the "Parade of Normality", by the All-Polish Youth, a Catholic nationalist group opposing "liberalism, tolerance, and relativism."

This posed a problem for the rulers. And then, he became president in 2008, defeating EU-favored Tusk, who had all the international backing.

Kaczyński was vilified throughout the empire.

The Smolensk disaster in my opinion was a political assassination, a very successful action, effectively turning Poland into a compliant puppet.

In my view, Russia and the US are allies, both in the Cold War and now. There was no conflict then, and there isn't now.

Most likely this was a well coordinated action led by the US, in which Russia is scapegoated in the west, or it's presented as an accident. (in Hegelian dialectics we only get presented these 2 options)

So yes I don't doubt the downing of the plane and the victims. I think that's the truth. The "doubts" serve the killers.

I'm sure the US and Russia were both in the know on this and coordinated this mission. We have to see it in the light of the fake Ukraine war now. This is no real war. It's to ensure a good axis positive to the empire.

Control of the axis – Germany, Poland, Ukraine – ensures their safety.

The rulers know very well what they do. And whatever way you look at it, from their perspective Smolensk was a huge success.

Poland is a perfect puppet state today and now they got Tusk in again!

[rachel]

I can categorically tell you, no plane crashed on April 10th, 2010. Read the thread, I've taken all my information from the official and independent reports. The debris of the Tupolev Tu-154M was in situ on April 5th, 2010, five days before the crash, satellite imagery proves this. There were military operations in the area prior to, and ongoing throughout the weekend of the crash, just the same as 9/11, just the same as 7/7, just the same as any false flag. The debris was rearranged during the weekend of the crash, captured in real time by an unusually high number of satellite imagery which is available for this time scale...Yet this research was buried by official investigators who state 'the crash was an accident', and it was also buried by independent investigators who state 'the crash was caused by an explosion'. The logical conclusion, this is because the independent investigation isn't independent at all, rather:— 1. It is a decade long ongoing money fraud. 2. No one involved in the story is independent, they are all part of the same controlling cabal. 3. The alleged assassination of 96 of Poland's intelligentsia by Putin will be used to further the promised third world war in the future.

You know what I've just noticed, the video about the Micro-Detail Comparative Forest Site Analysis that points out there are white shapes in the exact same locations as the crash wreckage five days before the crash; it is nine years old and only has 378 views, and if that's the correct count, two of those views are mine.





The other videos on the channel of a similar age have between 1.5K to 3K. That means likely they are embedded in the website, but that one isn't. They are not interested in what that analysis shows. Why would that be? I suggest because it shows the true state of affairs five days before the apparent crash.

What's more, in my most recent posts, I show beyond reasonable doubt that the memorial service Putin and Tusk attended at Katyn Forrest on Wednesday April 7th and the Mass Lech Kaczynski was apparently due to attend on Saturday April 10th were actually filmed on the same day. And the scenes of the leaders at the crash site were taken before the mud devastation filmed by the agreed first two people at the site minutes after the crash...and that actually, one of those two journalists capture a group of people standing around as the firemen appear to put out the fires of the alleged crash, and these people are never mentioned as being there by anyone, and not named as witnesses in the official report. This information is all in the thread.

This means all of the following imagery — Putin and Tusk laying flowers, Kaczynski's brother at the crash scene (the night scenes probably chosen specifically to obscure the expected lack of continuity), and the empty seats at the memorial — were filmed days prior to the Tupolev Tu-154M allegedly taking off.









It is what it is...a work of fiction.

[pasterno]

Thanks! Let me react to you:

I can categorically tell you, no plane crashed on April 10th, 2010. Read the thread, I've taken all my information from the official and independent reports. 

Thanks, I’m not convinced though. I think these kind of state operations have a certain character that aims to obscure the truth by creating a wide array of narratives.

This mirrors the approach of 9/11 and MH17.

In both cases the state does an operation. Blowing up a few towers. Dropping a plane. (Accidental or not)

A wide range of narratives; a main narrative, a counter narrative and an “independent” citizen initiative narrative, a conspiracy theorist narrative
are deployed. All these narratives overlap and contradict. A counterintelligence and a counter-counter intelligence program.

They shape a “fog of war”. This is intentional. And everyone who dives into feels lost after some time. (like I just did) It’s similar to 9/11 and MH-17. In these cases I felt lost as well.

The debris of the Tupolev Tu-154M was in situ on April 5th, 2010, five days before the crash, satellite imagery proves this. 

I think satellites are a hoax, therefore I don’t trust these sources for a bit.

There were military operations in the area prior to, and ongoing throughout the weekend of the crash, just the same as 9/11, just the same as 7/7, just the same as any false flag. 

I think this might be counterintelligence.

The debris was rearranged during the weekend of the crash, captured in real time by an unusually high number of satellite imagery which is available for this time scale...


I think satellites are a hoax. Hence the “unusually high number of satellite imagery” is extremely suspicious to me. Seems we have to do with the shaping of propaganda narratives.
Yet this research was buried by official investigators who state 'the crash was an accident', and it was also buried by independent investigators who state 'the crash was caused by an explosion'. 

I think intel offers more narratives. An official narrative. The “independent citizen journalist” narrative. The conspiracy narrative. All these narratives are not aimed at providing truth but at steering away from truth. 

Bigger events, need bigger cover ups. Bigger events have many narratives. 9/11 is a great examples. You can find 30+ theories on what happened. Which makes man feel complacent “ah we will never know what really happened” (And that’s the exact aim)

The logical conclusion, this is because the independent investigation isn't independent at all, 

Agree. 
rather:— 1. It is a decade long ongoing money fraud. 

I don’t see how executing the political top of Poland is needed for money fraud. If you want money, just join the global order and play your role.

2. No one involved in the story is independent, they are all part of the same controlling cabal. 
agree.

3. The alleged assassination of 96 of Poland's intelligentsia by Putin will be used to further the promised third world war in the future.

I think Russia/US/ North Korea / Japan / Iran / China / Israel are all part of the same global order.

I think the political figures executed are those that don’t play according to the global order.

I think this execution is part of that. Just like Milosevic was executed in The Hague international court.And with more doubt; I think this is what happened to Qadhafi and Saddam.

At a certain point it becomes clear that some leaders are not willing to play the game of international politics and they are plainly murdered.

Before that they always try a colour revolution. Or another puppet uprising.

I’m not fearful of any world war, nukes are fake, everyone is in on the same scheme, the global order just keeps an eye out on national politics.

Once in a while a possible threat pops up, and they are either replaced by a new puppet, or executed. 

On this event. I don’t know if they used bombs, or programmed the internal flight system, or that they murdered them with bullets and let an empty plane drop.This is also of a lesser importance to me. The main aim was I think to get rid of these leader in Poland that could be a possible threat to the global order. I think the main forces; US / Russia / UK / Israel were in the know of this.

Letting these kind of figures operate too long who are too popular with the people are a risk.

And let's not forget the operation was very successful. Grand success.

Puppet Tusk got in place in 2010. They made him president of the European council in 2014.

(that's my take on it)

[rachel]

It's fine for you to believe whatever you want to believe, but you really should spend time looking at the evidence I have unearthed in this thread rather than saying I'm wrong because of external reasons that have nothing to do with the evidence. ie, I don't believe in satellites. Yes and..? I do not believe in satellites as they are sold to us, but this doesn't mean I think imagery from the sky cannot be captured. Is this what you think? I'm guessing not really, so why even bring it up?

Say the images were faked, they were used extensively in the official and independent reports, so it would still point to a fake crash, because they are one of the main proofs used in the crash investigation... But if you had taken the time to look back, I have already addressed this.

It might be considered that the satellite image on April 5 was just bad luck. I don't think so though, Professor Chris Cieszewski made the observation when looking for satellite imagery for his analysis, he noted the number of high resolution cloud-free images available around the time of the crash did not fit the historic norm, and so therefore was noteworthy.

I noted earlier that it seems likely because of the frequency of the high resolution pictures around those particular weeks, that a fixed aerostat might have been used for the duration of the military exercises, and that the Russians were using it to position the debris in an exact layout and the pictures of Tusk and Putin in the tent kind of confirm this.





If we look at the way the debris is distributed, it does seem there was a plan, and that is to make it appear the plane did flip upside down before crashing. We can see most of the right side of the plane is on the left and vice versa, and I've guessed that's probably to try to account for the destruction and the missing flight deck.

Everything covered in this thread I came to independently from researching the wealth of evidence and testimony because I enjoy solving puzzles. Take it or leave it, you will not find it anywhere else.

Regarding the deaths, there is no evidence anyone died. At the time of the alleged crash, the then Health Secretary Ewa Kopacz made a statement in the Parliamentary Chambers that there was a Polish team of observers there to oversee the bodies being taken to Moscow. It transpired she lied. No Polish nationals are on record as having seen any of the bodies at the crash site or in Moscow, quite the opposite in fact. Everyone asked who was there that day says they saw no bodies, the caskets came back sealed from Russia, and apparently no one thought to open any of them before they were buried or cremated. The reason for this is clear, no one was prepared to go under oath to say they saw dead bodies during the investigation, that would have been them committing perjury. This again is the logical reason why the investigation was handed over to the Russians and the Polish authorities declined to take up their right under international law to have a team of Polish observers in Russia overseeing the investigation...This would have opened them up to Polish law. But I have already stated all of this, with links, earlier in the thread.

[pasterno]

Thanks, what do you think then happened to the people missing?

Where are they now? E.g. the former president? Quite a few were public persons. Not invented fake characters. (E.g. different from the 9/11 virtual deaths)

What was their objective for this operation? Why do this extensive work with dropping parts of an airplane somewhere in the woods? Or what do you think is most likely what happened? As I understand you questions the plane dropping?

So I basically a few questions:
Why this operation?
Who are behind it do you think?
Who benefittes from it?
And why is that the most logical way to do it for the perpetrators?
Where are the people missing now?
Or what happened to them?

Sorry if I haven't grasped all the work you put into this, you have obviously spent 100x more time on this than me.

Tried to go through the thread but for me it's a lot of random facts that I can't really stitch together.

Curious to hear!

[rachel]

In this thread I have sourced all the evidence I have used, I have done this so anyone reading the thread can look at the information I am using themselves and see where I get my ideas from. That way anyone can independently decide either it makes sense, else, think it points to something else... I really don't mind people having other opinions, but I have really done my best to be as open about how I get to my conclusions as I can. I'm not giving you homework, really I'm not, I'm just saying I'm not picking any of this stuff out of thin air and it's all in proceeding posts.

I was originally convinced the Tupolev Tu-154M 102, the "crashed" 101's twin, had flown out to Russia on the 10th, and then was diverted when it got into Russian airspace. But I realise with other evidence, there was actually no need. They planned the crash for Saturday on purpose, the normal weekday staff not around, particularly in the government offices; so everything from 5 pm Friday night...this is when they apparently started their musical plane seat swapping...is a complete fabrication. There is absolutely no reason for a plane to have taken off on the 10th. I've spent about eighty post going into a lot of information, that's why I keep referring you backwards, but what I have yet to cover is alleged cockpit conversations before the crash and where the missing people have gone. I have done some research on both of these topics, but I am yet to put them here. I have too many open ongoing threads.

One hypothesis is that they were killed in Poland. Given the testimonies of people like the Smolensk widow, this is not plausible. So, any people related to the Church would go wherever Holy Orders sent them; and for that matter this is likely true for the Generals, a person would not get to that level in the military by refusing commands from above. We have politicians, I refer you to the Muppet Show thread for some ideas. Then there are other people who just seemed to be famous by name, like the poet, I think people would soon forget their faces, meaning they could be deployed elsewhere easily within a year or two.

I'll give you where i think one of the 96 went. But the imagery available for the dead is generally very poor, meaning we will never really know.

On the left is Ewa Kopacz, Polish Health Secretary at the time of the Smolensk crash. You know, the woman who lied to Parliament about Polish officials being present to observe the Smolensk dead in Moscow. The same person who later became Prime Minister of Poland. And on the right is Joanna Agatka-Indecka, Smolensk crash victim. You really have to look at the close-up to see they have a very similar tilted wide smile and wide set eyes. But whether it is her or not, it kind of proves the point. The exact same person could turn up with different shaped eyebrows and a different hairstyle, and if they had a different name, we mostly wouldn't be able to tell for sure if it is the same person or not unless we saw them in real life.

I'm not wasting any more time answering questions, if you want to know my thoughts, read the thread...else don't.

[pasterno]

I don't see how this is wasting time. Lol

I'm basically asking for short summary; why did they do it? Who did it? What happened? Where did the people go?

And you answer none of these questions.

With all respect I feel you are sucked into all sorts of details of theories while forgetting the big picture and the basic questions.

I read through the posts and can't distill my questions from the thread and your posts.

I'll keep with my theory I'll posted earlier.

Good luck in your research.