The Hungerford England massacre August 19 1987

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  • #104235

    xileffilex
    Participant

    Hmm. Two years exactly before the evening when the party guests on the Marchioness were getting ready for a river cruise [q.v.]
    The Wiki page is a good start for a racy read – reads like a film script [where did I get that phrase from?]
    current page:
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hungerford_massacre
    [would be interesting to browse the page history!]
    An interesting thread was started at CF but it was snuffed out by vicsim arguments. A psy-op can be carried out by vicsims or real people or a mixture. The alleged perpetrator does seem to exist/ have existed as Smoking Gun intimated.
    http://cluesforum.info/viewtopic.php?f=33&t=1202
    Well, we go back to the psyopticon conjecture, namely that the birth and marriage indeces are peppered with fake “sleeper” entries.
    First off – the Ryans certaninly seemed to exist [pace psyopticon]:
    Birth [registered Marlborough 1960 [2]
    here

    Marriage of his parents registered Chippenham 1958 [1]
    here

    The death of Ryan’s father two years earlier is
    here

    Death certficates and registrations are more easily produced like rabbits out of a hat.
    Just for the record, here is the record of Mrs R, just one of the deaths registered from events that day [one victim was reported to have died two days later in Oxford]

    Let’s look a little more deeply at some of the named individuals.

    Perhaps we can eventually extend this inqury to the 2010 Cumbria event – the age range of the victims in itself suggests a bulk one-way trip to the Spanish Costas.
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cumbria_shootings#Fatalities

    #104388
    Tom Dalpra
    Tom Dalpra
    Participant

    Hey, yeh, almost exactly two years to the day of The Marchioness Op, xilef.

    The total ‘dead’ here of 17 caught my eye, a little. It’s a number we’ve seen in ops recently ,of course- MH17 famously. A little observation.
    FD

    Let’s have a look at a bit of Wonkypedia:

    ds

    ”The first shooting occurred seven miles (11 km) to the west of Hungerford in Savernake Forest in Wiltshire, at 12:30 in the afternoon of 19 August. Susan Godfrey, 35, had come to the area with her two children; Hannah, 4, and James, 2 from Reading, Berkshire for a family picnic. Ryan approached them with his gun raised and forced Susan to place the children in her Nissan Micra. He then marched her into bushes at gunpoint and shot her thirteen times in the back with the Beretta pistol. Police were alerted to the scene after Godfrey’s two children approached a lone pensioner, ( really, a ‘lone pensioner?’ The pair of them, the four year old aand the two year old? They approached a pensioner??) Myra Rose. Hannah told Rose that a “man in black has shot our mummy.” Authorities were still responding when Ryan continued his massacre”.

    Does it make much sense? Who knows he ‘marched her into the woods’?
    The kids were in the car terrified presumably? How did they know he shot their Mum if he took her in the woods so they (presumably) couldn’t see it?

    A flakey, unconvincing story from the get-go, I think. We go on.
    He went to a garage and got some petrol before trying to shoot the attendant. He then went home.

    ”At around 12:45, Ryan was seen at his home in South View, Hungerford. He loaded his car with his weapons, and attempted to drive away, but the car would not start. He then fired five shots into the back of the car. (T He shot his car in anger. We’ve all felt like it).

    ”Neighbours reported seeing him agitatedly moving between the house and the car before he returned indoors and shot the family dog (or dogs – reports differ whether the family owned one or two pets).” Oh no, he shot the dog or dogs. 16 people was bad enough, but he proved himself truly callous – he shot the dog ( or dogs). How did they know anyway? Did they hear a bang and a yelp ( or possibly two)?

    Anyway, he shot his car and then his pet(S).

    ”Ryan then doused his home with the petrol he had bought earlier in the day and set his house alight. The fire subsequently destroyed three surrounding properties.”

    Does it really make much sense? He took a woman into the woods and shot her 13 times in the back, then he stopped-off at the garage to get some petrol and tried to shoot the assistant. Before going home, trying to start his car, then shooting it, going back inside, killing the dog and then burning the house down using the aforementioned petrol.

    fd

    Here we go again…

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hungerford_massacre

    DalTampra

    #104468
    Tom Dalpra
    Tom Dalpra
    Participant

    This story gets all a bit mad!

    He’s already shot numerous people, his car and his dog(s) and set fire to his house when then we read:

    ”Ryan moved along Fairview Road, killing Abdul Rahman Khan who was mowing his lawn. ( what? Mowing his lawn with all the shooting going on? Did he not notice anything? )Further along the road he wounded his next door neighbour, Alan Lepetit, who had helped build Ryan’s gun display unit. ( Fuck me, that’s gratitude for you? )

    He then shot at an ambulance which had just arrived, shattering the window and injuring paramedic Hazel Haslett, who sped away before Ryan was able to fire at her again. ”

    Now get this line:

    ”A crowd had now gathered (a crowd had gathered? Really, to watch the guy shooting, is this for real?) and Ryan shot at windows and at people who appeared on the street. Ryan’s mother, Dorothy, then drove into South View and was confronted by her burning house, her armed son, and dead and injured strewn along the street. Ivor Jackson, who had been shot four times, was still slumped in White’s Toyota. He heard Dorothy Ryan open the door of White’s Toyota and say, “Oh, Ivor…” before attempting in vain to reason with her son. Ryan shot her dead as she raised her arms and pleaded with him not to shoot.”

    Phew, all this on Wednesday. It’s like some soap opera special. ”Don’t shoot me son” boom…house burning in the background. Cue title music.

    Ryan then wounded Betty Tolladay, who had stepped out of her house to admonish Ryan for making noise, ( Another one! there was an old lady that did that earlier too.”Stop it! You’re a noisy boy!”) as she had assumed he was shooting at paper targets in the woods. ( Maybe…) He then ran towards Hungerford Common.”

    Then we find out what happened to the police.

    The police were now informed of the situation but the evacuation plan was not fully effective. Ryan’s movements were tracked via police helicopter almost an hour after he set his home alight, ( no rush!) but this was hampered by media helicopters and journalists responding to reports of the attacks. ( Ah yes, I’ve heard that one before. Serves as a good cover and a deterrent for real journalists) A single police officer, who observed Ryan, recommended that armed police be used, as the weapons he saw were beyond the capabilities of Hungerford police station’s meagre firearms locker.”

    Meanwhile a crowd had gathered and Ryan was still shooting….

    DalTampra

    #105439

    xileffilex
    Participant

    Yes Tom, it reads like a destruction derby at a banger racing track.

    Firstly though, we need lists of Victims and witnesses, culled from several sources.
    Victims.
    Alleged perpetrator [suicide, allegedly] Death registered Newbury
    recorded as shot and died [all deaths registered Newbury unless stated]:
    Michael Robert Ryan b. 1960

    Susan Elaine Godfrey b. 1952 [13 times in back] [registered Marlborough]
    Roland Edgar Mason b. 1917 [6 times in back]
    Sheila Florence Mason b. 1921 [once in head] [formal i/ds by son Colin]
    George Richardd White b. 1934 [shot 4 times] [formal i/d by s-i-l George Jennings]
    Kenneth George Clements b.1936 [walking dog]
    P.C. Roger Brereton b 1946 [4 times, car crashed into telegraph pole]
    [formal i/d not by family but by Coroner’s Office police constable Philip Freemantle, 41]
    Abdur Rahman Khan b.1903 [aged 84, mowing lawn]
    Dorothy Ellen Ryan b.1924 [mother of Michael Ryan shot in head] [formal i/d by bro-in-law Stephen Fairbrass]
    Francis Colin Butler b.1960 [father of 2, married] [formal i/d by father “Fred”]
    Marcus Jonathan Barnard b.1957 [taxi driver married**] [formal i/d by father Leonard]
    Douglas Paul M. Wainwright b. 1920 [shot in head] [formal i/d by his Policeman son who was “just arrived in Hungerford to visit him for a few days”]
    Eric Claude Vardy b. 1936 [shot twice in neck and upper torso, crashed car – survived by wife Marlyne]
    [registered in Swindon]
    Sandra Jane Hill b 1965 [aged 22, shot in Renault 5 [unmarried, formal i/d by father John, elsewhere Tony of Silverstone]
    Myrtle Irene Gibbs b.1924 [wheelchair bound] [died 2 days later] [abdomen]
    [registered in Swindon]
    Victor John Gibbs b. 1921 [aka Jack, killed instantly – chest]
    Ian Francis Playle b.1953 [shot in neck, crashed car, died 2 days later in Oxford, where death was registered; clerk to the Justices in Newbury, wife and 2 children; also i/d by PC Freemantle, not family]

    #105478

    xileffilex
    Participant

    Notes:
    No birth is recorded for Ian F Playle in 1953, altough there is one for Alan F Playle who married in Essex in 1977, wife Elizabeth b.1952; these are the Playles.

    Marcus Barnard was born locally but there is no trace of a marriage afaics. [a Joe Michael Barnard was born in Swindon that quarter]

    Abdur Khan married Bessie Stevens in London in 1931 Both she and their daughter Anita Renwick [b.1932], whose husband George Renwick formally identfied her father according to the press, have also since died.

    Victor Gibbs married Myrtle Brittan in 1965

    Mrs Butler remarried locally in 1994 [b.1967]

    Some contemporary 1987 reports are found here and here

    Valerie Clements remarried locally in 1990. There is no birth listed for her new husband in England and Wales. The Mirror [2012] states Ken, her then husband and Ryan’s neighbour, was out with his 3 children when shot dead.

    No satisfactory birth is registered for George R White.

    Far from dying of cancer, the reason Eric Vardy gave up his job, Vardy’s wife Marlene remarried locally in 1989.
    http://chesterwriter.blogspot.co.uk/2014/04/the-hungerford-massacre-michael-ryan.html

    http://murderpedia.org/male.R/r/ryan-michael-robert-part5.htm

    one year earlier, Marlyne and Eric Vardy had together made arrangements for her funeral rather than his. This was because medical experts had deemed it extremely unlikely that Marlyne, although only in her forties, would survive major cancer surgery.

    There is no record of her death before 2005.

    #133704
    rgos
    rgos
    Participant

    Less than one year later, in June of 1988 a young Dutch boy hitchhiked across the South of England and slept rough in a field in Hungerford. He was wearing a squaddie jacket similar to Ryan’s…

    #848334

    xileffilex
    Participant

    Nearly the 30th anniversary of the “massacre” and we need to keep the official narrative on the public’s mind. Along comes the ever helpful BBC
    http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b08b7ttm

    They don’t like to call it a massacre, tellingly, rather a tragedy.

    I am brought back to the curious story of Ian Playle
    http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/crimes-shook-britain-hungerford-massacre-823698
    With police using loudhailers to warn residents to stay indoors, Ian Playle encountered a police roadblock, but he knew another way to his home in Priory Road.

    Hungerford Massacre – 1987: A police marksman examining a spent cartridge on the road in Hungerford after gunman Michael Ryan went on the rampage
    Ammo: A police marksman examines a spent cartridge on the road in Hungerford (Photo: PA)
    When he got there, he died in a hail of shots.

    As noted, his real name was Alan Francis Playle. What is astonishing is that he is listed on 192.com as living in Braintree, Essex, along with his mother, at 227 Notley Road, some 15 years after the massacre! [and for which no sale has been recorded in the past 20 years] Subsequently, both of them disappear from online records. Before the “massacre”, the father of Alan/Ian, Eric Henry Playle, [who died in 1982] was living at 31 Jeffreys Road in nearby Cressing, Essex.

    Alan/Ian and his wife Elizabeth [who was born in Salisbury district but married in Braintree Essex] had two children, and had moved to Hungerford some time after 1981 but before 1986.

    Also in 2002, the wife of Alan/Ian died on July 5 aged 50!
    https://www.thegazette.co.uk/notice/L-56650-816
    Probate was quickly granted on October 18 2002, the day before the any claim on the estate expired.

    Elizabeth and the their two children subsequently lived in an agreeable and large detached house at 24 Belmore Road, which was sold on….
    July 30 1987 just three weeks before the “massacre”!

    The next sale was only on October 21 2011, by which time the property had increased in value by over a quarter of a million pounds.

    Both the son and daughter of Ian/Alan and Elizabeth have also left little trace, bar this myspace image and page
    https://myspace.com/204268108/mixes/profilemix-52679/photo/2865734

    • This reply was modified 9 months, 4 weeks ago by  xileffilex.
    #848336

    xileffilex
    Participant

    The probate [with will] of Ian Playle dod August 21 1987, related to an address at 51 Fifth Road, Newbury [£68,089] No sales in the past 20 years

    #848454

    xileffilex
    Participant

    Elizabeth Playle: Probate was granted to

    Sarah Hinksman of the same address. That was the twin sister of Elizabeth Playle who also must have moved into the house when it was bought in 1997.
    There is a third sister, born a year later, Jane.

    And Sarah herself died on May 3 2006 again young, aged not aged 50 but circa 54.
    https://www.thegazette.co.uk/notice/L-58013-818
    This time the co-executor [along with a solicitor] was Christine Ings rather than sister Jane.

    Who she?
    The twins’ mother was born Elizabeth Ings in 1922 [father Frank died in obscurity, perhaps divorced, in Chelmsford Essex in 1982] herself another twin, one of seven children. Sister Christine Ings would have been 80 years old at the time of her windfall in 2006.

    Elizabeth Hinksman also died in 2006 [Q4] aged 84 but seems to have been living with the third sister. There was no probate.
    http://www.192.com/atoz/people/hinksman/elizabeth/sp5/333596281/

    There has been no probate issued for anyone of the name Christine Ings, who would now be 90, since 2006.
    http://www.192.com/atoz/people/ings/christine/sp5/130156708/
    records show her living with two other unmarried sisters born 1924 and 1928, for whom there is also no probate upto 2016.

    yet the Hordle house was not sold in 2006.

    #848455

    xileffilex
    Participant

    Who were the people rounded up to talk for the BBC interview?
    Jack Williams, aged 88, former firefighter and mayor. Williams doesn’t want to call it a massacre but a ‘tragedy’.
    http://www.hungerfordvirtualmuseum.co.uk/index.php/14-people/855-jack-williams

    Former mayor Peter Harries whose son Carl a soldier, was reportedly mending a car with his brother and who allegedly ran after Michael Ryan
    Former mayor, who resigned in 2013 for unspecified reasons.
    http://www.newburytoday.co.uk/news/news/1168/new-mayor-appeals-to-the-community.html

    Anther key player was the town’s General Practitioner, Dr Hugh Pihlens who is a key member of the local historical socieity who maintains the above virtual museum website. Pihlens had not spoken about the ‘massacre’ in the preceding 30 years publicly.
    http://www.hungerfordvirtualmuseum.co.uk/index.php/14-people/853-hugh-pihlens

    From the website
    At lunchtime of 19th August 1987 PC Roger Brereton was murdered on duty at Hungerford. Although at the time he was working as a traffic patrol officer, he had recently been stationed at Hungerford, and knew the area well. He was answering a call to investigate a man seen walking up South View with a gun, and on turning into South View to investigate, he was shot dead in his car by Michael Ryan. Over the next few hours of the Hungerford Shooting Tragedy, Ryan was to murder 17 people, before he took his own life. This event shocked people around the world. Much further material is available both locally and on-line. A memorial plaque to Roger Brereton was placed in the foyer of the police station.

    1987….John McCubbin retires after a distinguished period as Town and County Councillor. Ron Tarry elected as Mayor. August 24th: special Town Council meeting called in order to cope with the Tragedy which occurred in our Town on Wednesday 19th, 1987. Gerald Ward appointed as Town Council Trustee for the Hungerford Tragedy Appeal Fund. Town Council donate £5000 to fund, which eventually exceeds £1 million. Magistrates Room becomes focal point of all appeal activity with John Newton and Maurice Bond bearing an almost full-time responsibility. Prime Minister, Margaret Thatcher, and Home Secretary, Douglas Hurd visit the Town. Archbishop of Canterbury officiates at a huge open-air memorial service in October. Mayor of Ligueil attends a Town Council meeting.

    I wonder if any of them are involved here
    Welcome

    Mayor at the time was Ron Tarry
    Ron Tarry, who had become mayor of Hungerford a few months earlier and still lives in the Berkshire town, told BBC News: “The first thing was absolute shock and disbelief, we couldn’t believe it had happened and that it had happened here.
    http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/berkshire/6947883.stm

    “We held a little memorial service for the 20th anniversary and I said then that we would draw a line under this,” says Peter Harries, whose son Carl, now an officer in the Australian army, shadowed Ryan as he shot his way through the town, treating the dying and the wounded as he best could.
    August 28 2012
    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/crime/9501881/Hungerford-Forget-We-cant.-Its-never-going-away.html

    Yes, they do like the word ‘tragedy’ not massacre.
    http://www.hungerfordvirtualmuseum.co.uk/index.php/component/search/?searchword=tragedy

    Tarry and Pihlens in 2014 received the freedom of Hungerford
    http://www.newburytoday.co.uk/news/news/10698/hungerford-salutes-them.html

    Here’s Tarry [born 1926] in 1987, courtesy of the Guardian’s archive
    https://www.theguardian.com/theguardian/2012/aug/20/archive-1987-hungerford-massacre-michael-ryan

    More Guardian ‘history’ from 2010 here
    https://www.theguardian.com/uk/2010/jun/10/hungerford-revisited-massacre-michael-ryan
    The then prime minister Margaret Thatcher surprised residents by visiting Hungerford the following day. “People said it was just a photo-opportunity, but it wasn’t – she seemed to have a tremendous sympathy,” says Tarry. [then aged “She had the common touch,” adds his wife. [Beryl]

    When [Jack] Williams [ who knew Ryan’s father through Buck’s [Alfred Ryan] work as a building inspector] was mayor in 1990, he was phoned in the middle of night by the mayor of Aramoana, New Zealand, after a gunman killed 13 people there. “He wanted to talk and talk and talk about it,” Williams says. “It will always trigger things if you get a multiple killing, especially if it occurs somewhere where there’s a small community.”

    The memorial plaques, placed well away from the town centre and mentioned in the BBC broadcast , are seen here
    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-berkshire-19208380
    August 18 2012

    Years later, he would also be contacted by families affected by similar shooting sprees, by Thomas Hamilton in Dunblane in 1996 and Derek Bird in Whitehaven, Cumbria, in 2010.

    “People just want to forget about it, but they can’t,” says Bryan Geater, whose daughter was nearly killed by gunman Michael Ryan 25 years ago.
    Mr Geater’s daughter Myra was seriously injured by one of Ryan’s bullets, which hit her in the leg after flying through the front window of their family home.
    The 74-year-old still lives in the same house with his wife Diana and every year the family leaves town on 19 August to escape mention of the events.
    But Mr Geater admits a turning point came three years ago when the detached house opposite was demolished and replaced by four new properties.

    Jack and Myrtle Gibbs were among Ryan’s last victims as he entered their Priory Road detached home and shot them.
    From his porch bench across the road, Mr Geater looks forlornly at the new builds as he ponders the question of what the massacre means a quarter of a century later.
    He said: “To see that house opposite come down was a God-send.
    “Jack and Myrtle were great friends of ours, who were callously murdered inside their home.
    “To step out the front door everyday and see that was a terrible reminder.”

    Following the massacre, the government came under pressure to tighten the law on gun ownership.
    The resulting Firearms (Amendment) Act 1988 banned a variety of weapons and controls were tightened further after the Dunblane killings.

    #850420

    markymark
    Participant

    Nearly the 30th anniversary of the “massacre” and we need to keep the official narrative on the public’s mind. Along comes the ever helpful http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b08b7ttm

    They don’t like to call it a massacre, tellingly, rather a tragedy.

    I am brought back to the curious story of Ian Playle
    http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/crimes-shook-britain-hungerford-massacre-823698
    With police using loudhailers to warn residents to stay indoors, Ian Playle encountered a police roadblock, but he knew another way to his home in Priory Road.

    Hungerford Massacre – 1987: A police marksman examining a spent cartridge on the road in Hungerford after gunman Michael Ryan went on the rampage
    Ammo: A police marksman examines a spent cartridge on the road in Hungerford (Photo: PA)
    When he got there, he died in a hail of shots.

    As noted, his real name was Alan Francis Playle. What is astonishing is that he is listed on 192.com as living in Braintree, Essex, along with his mother, at 227 Notley Road, some 15 years after the massacre! [and for which no sale has been recorded in the past 20 years] Subsequently, both of them disappear from online records. Before the “massacre”, the father of Alan/Ian, Eric Henry Playle, [who died in 1982] was living at 31 Jeffreys Road in nearby Cressing, Essex.

    Alan/Ian and his wife Elizabeth [who was born in Salisbury district but married in Braintree Essex] had two children, and had moved to Hungerford some time after 1981 but before 1986.

    Also in 2002, the wife of Alan/Ian died on July 5 aged 50!
    https://www.thegazette.co.uk/notice/L-56650-816
    Probate was quickly granted on October 18 2002, the day before the any claim on the estate expired.

    Elizabeth and the their two children subsequently lived in an agreeable and large detached house at 24 Belmore Road, which was sold on….
    July 30 1987 just three weeks before the “massacre”!

    The next sale was only on October 21 2011, by which time the property had increased in value by over a quarter of a million pounds.

    Both the son and daughter of Ian/Alan and Elizabeth have also left little trace, bar this myspace image and page
    https://myspace.com/204268108/mixes/profilemix-52679/photo/2865734

    Nearly the 30th anniversary of the “massacre” and we need to keep the official narrative on the public’s mind. Along comes the ever helpful BBC
    http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b08b7ttm

    They don’t like to call it a massacre, tellingly, rather a tragedy.

    I am brought back to the curious story of Ian Playle
    http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/crimes-shook-britain-hungerford-massacre-823698
    With police using loudhailers to warn residents to stay indoors, Ian Playle encountered a police roadblock, but he knew another way to his home in Priory Road.

    Hungerford Massacre – 1987: A police marksman examining a spent cartridge on the road in Hungerford after gunman Michael Ryan went on the rampage
    Ammo: A police marksman examines a spent cartridge on the road in Hungerford (Photo: PA)
    When he got there, he died in a hail of shots.

    As noted, his real name was Alan Francis Playle. What is astonishing is that he is listed on 192.com as living in Braintree, Essex, along with his mother, at 227 Notley Road, some 15 years after the massacre! [and for which no sale has been recorded in the past 20 years] Subsequently, both of them disappear from online records. Before the “massacre”, the father of Alan/Ian, Eric Henry Playle, [who died in 1982] was living at 31 Jeffreys Road in nearby Cressing, Essex.

    Alan/Ian and his wife Elizabeth [who was born in Salisbury district but married in Braintree Essex] had two children, and had moved to Hungerford some time after 1981 but before 1986.

    Also in 2002, the wife of Alan/Ian died on July 5 aged 50!
    https://www.thegazette.co.uk/notice/L-56650-816
    Probate was quickly granted on October 18 2002, the day before the any claim on the estate expired.

    Elizabeth and the their two children subsequently lived in an agreeable and large detached house at 24 Belmore Road, which was sold on….
    July 30 1987 just three weeks before the “massacre”!

    The next sale was only on October 21 2011, by which time the property had increased in value by over a quarter of a million pounds.

    Both the son and daughter of Ian/Alan and Elizabeth have also left little trace, bar this myspace image and page
    https://myspace.com/204268108/mixes/profilemix-BBC
    52679/photo/2865734

    Hello. I am new to the site, having found my way here via a Google search on the topic, in the lead up to the 30th anniversary of the ‘massacre’. I had always found the reports of the ‘event’ rather dubious, and have a reignited interest in the case, with the anniversary dawning, and articles in the media predictably surfacing:

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/men/thinking-man/30-years-hungerford-wounds-michael-ryan-left-town-people-still/

    I am very impressed with the level of research you’ve done into many of the supposed victims, and had done similar myself, albeit not on quite the same level as you’ve managed to. I had located information regarding the death in 2002 of Elizabeth Playle, but not any further into the persons to whom successive probates were granted.

    Regarding the curious case of Ian/Alan Playle, given the inconsistencies you’ve highlighted, what would you say can be concluded, about the whole ‘massacre’? What is the reality, would you say, about Ian/Alan Playle?

    I am planning to travel to Hungerford on the 30th anniversary on Saturday, to gauge the atmosphere.

    If anyone else is interested in the ‘events’, in the close lead-up to the anniversary, feel free to reply to the thread.

    #850421

    xileffilex
    Participant

    There’s a short video of a camera shy Elizabeth Playle here leaving the inquest –
    http://www.gettyimages.co.nz/detail/video/hungerford-inquest-mrs-elizabeth-playle-helped-out-court-news-footage/808535726

    The only proof of a massacre lies within the caskets, as ever. And if caskets contain human remains, rather than sand, that would tell us little, since even if we could commission and exhumation and pay for identification, by whatever means, it’s in the same safe hands, as with those of the doctors who sign death certificates, and we will be none the wiser. Do the witness statements pass the smell test? Do the photos support the narrative? That’s all we have.

    Let’s see what new stories emerge, honed over the past 30 years.

    Thanks for the link to the Doug Wainwright story.

    the tragic irony that his parents – who lived in Kent – had been due to visit him the day before. “I said ‘Dad, don’t come up then, I’m going to football, come up on the Wednesday.’ When this all kicked off it didn’t even enter my head that they might be caught up in it.”

    Has he struggled with guilt? “All I know is that if a Wainwright was going to be killed that day, my dad would have rather it was him than me.”

    Kathleen, was shot in the breast but survived


    We note there a variation on the familiar theme of recent years, as used to good effect in the Jo Cox psy-op…don’t shoot her, shoot me. As if…

    Douglas Paul Montague Wainwright, died August 19 1987, of 2 Wakefield Close, Strood. Probate November 2 1987.
    It seems that Doug and Kathleen had 5 childen, b 1950-1961, Trevor being the middle one, and another of whom, David, corrects the true death of his mother to 2003 in a comment below the Telegraph article, a fact which is indeed verifiable. Who told the reporter that she died in 2007? Surely not Trevor.
    Trevor makes no mention of his siblings, the last four all born locally. Why and when his parents moved away to Strood is not told.

    “the first thing she saw was two bullets which shattered the windscreen”She saw Ryan, with a blank expression on his face point the gun at her husband”
    from a video clip in this link Getty video 808620552
    http://www.gettyimages.co.nz/detail/video/hungerford-inquest-cms-anne-leuchars-i-c-sof-another-news-footage/808620552
    text – “I heard more shots – 6 or 8 – bang bang bang.

    From various sources – perhaps from a book – we read:

    Kathleen Wainwright would later say that her husband hit the brakes as soon as the windscreen shattered. Ryan fired eight rounds into the Wainwrights’ Datsun Bluebird, hitting Douglas in the head and Kathleen in the chest and hand. Mrs. Wainwright, seeing that her husband was dead and that Ryan was approaching the car whilst reloading, unbuckled her seatbelt and ran.

    Does that pass the smell test?

    #850427

    markymark
    Participant

    Interesting findings, once more. Have you located any more footage/pictures, of the ‘victims’ or their families?

    Given what can be found about these people via birth, marriage and death records, and suchlike, to look at it in an open-ended aspect: where do we suppose that ‘the real’ elements/information about these people end, and the fake elements begin?

    The information on Alan/Ian Playle is very thought-provoking.

    #850428

    xileffilex
    Participant

    Is that Trevor Wainwright in police uniform with his mother in the above clip? Here’s his 2017 story about his mother –

    “Mum was wounded. She knew my dad was dead. Ryan was reloading his weapon so she crouched behind the engine compartment thinking he was going to shoot her again but another car came past and Ryan shot that car instead.”

    Nothing about making a dash for it there.
    His sister, also Kathleen, with a family in Swindon but retaining her name, hasn’t commented publicly. Is that she in the clip?

    A very strange interview with Commander [Royal Navy] Lister Theodore Hickson [b.1932] concerning Eric Vardy [q.v]
    http://www.gettyimages.co.nz/detail/video/hungerford-victims-england-berkshire-hungerford-gv-r-l-news-footage/685235616
    What was their connection? Eric was a carpenter at Norlands Training College for Nannies in Bath.

    Here’s John William Storms who was shot in the face and had jaw reconstruction work, but seems to have made a full recovery and was talking clearly.

    http://www.gettyimages.co.nz/detail/video/hungerford-massacre-anniversary-hungerford-massacre-news-footage/674102436
    He was another who crouched behind the engine compartment
    https://books.google.co.uk/books?id=BMKDDgAAQBAJ&pg=PA211
    rescued by “local builder” Bob Barclay who happened to be at home,conveniently.
    Janet Storms, nee White, his second wife, is seen in the video with John [married 1983] but has a new partner

    http://www.192.com/atoz/people/russell/paul/ox14/4200869279/
    John apparently died in 1996 aged 57.

    Here’s another interview with John Storms,
    http://www.gettyimages.co.nz/detail/video/hungerford-massacre-anniversary-hungerford-massacre-news-footage/673571578
    “playing cowboys, pretending… bang, straight in the face with the first shot, I thought that was powerful for an air rifle…put my hand in my jaw, realised it was all loose and blood started pumping out and I perspire quite freely in the summer so I always [have] got towels with me, I went down to get the towels and thought ‘what the hell’s going on’, looked up and he was coming down for another shot”
    The above interview was carried out just one year on from the “massacre”.

    John had a daughter Karen b 1967.
    There was no probate relating to John Storms.

    #850438

    markymark
    Participant

    Even more interesting findings there. Do you have anything else? I am travelling to Hungerford tomorrow, on what is meant to be a sunny day as was that day in 1987, and will see what ‘memorials’ are taking place, and how great the media presence is. I will try to get photos of anything of interest.

    Another new BBC article: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/resources/idt-sh/hungerford_massacre

    #850439

    markymark
    Participant

    I wonder if many other of the ‘victims’ have since died…

    #850441

    xileffilex
    Participant

    The home of Victor “Jack” and Myrtle Irene Gibbs, 60 Priory Road.
    http://www.gettyimages.co.nz/detail/video/hungerford-shootings-victims-jack-gibbs-house-no-60-ext-news-footage/685232242
    Probate for Irene – estate £175,802,administration granted December 2 1987. She died a day later, allegedly, on August 20 1987.

    Victor John Gibbs died August 19. Estate [administration, no will] £15,831 also granted on December 2 1987.

    Why would Mrs Gibbs’s share of the married estate be 10x that of her husband?
    They had no children – who were the beneficiaries?
    Online photos I suspect relating to the previous post

    Shortly after killing Susan Godfrey, Ryan drove into the petrol station and fired at Zubair’s then wife Kakoub, who was serving that day.

    Although the gun did not go off and Kakoub escaped unhurt, the mental trauma left her unable to work again.

    The couple have now divorced and it is obvious the shootings and his wife’s resulting ill health played a significant role in the breakdown of their marriage.
    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/femail/article-474613/Haunted-Hungerford.html
    The Garage proprietor is correctly named below viz. Mohammed Zubair Dean , occasionally M. Zubir Dean, and his then wife KakAub
    https://beta.companieshouse.gov.uk/officers/oW3QcLm-8hEQAe14AcmWbUI79xg/appointments
    https://beta.companieshouse.gov.uk/company/01977028/officers

    Several of the Dean family briefly joined the board of the garage, Bridge Garage in MArlborough, with a view to developing the site
    https://www.marlboroughnewsonline.co.uk/business/1201-filling-station-owner-unveils-ambitious-plans

    http://unidoc.wiltshire.gov.uk/UniDoc/Document/File/MTMvMDU1MDEvTEJDLDkxNTQ4Nw==
    http://www.yorkpress.co.uk/news/11231238.Homes_plan_for_Marlborough_garage_site_gets_the_go_ahead/
    Mr Dean took over ownership of the filling station from his father, Zubair, who now lives in Thailand.

    The Gibbs’ neighbour – Christine Jennings at number 62 shows a bullet hole in her front door which she said passed through her unnamed husband’s leg into the sofa…
    “”
    http://www.gettyimages.co.nz/detail/video/hungerford-shootings-victims-england-berkshire-hungerford-news-footage/685232348
    “”
    Could this be Christine Jennings, mayor of Hungerford in 2001?
    http://www.hungerfordvirtualmuseum.co.uk/index.php/10-themes/734-council-office-holders
    Christine: Hungerford’s a very close knit community”
    And Nr Michael Jennings is back in the news in 2015 to remind us of the “massacre” in 1987
    http://www.newburytoday.co.uk/news/news/14125/hungerford-tragedy-survivor-speaks-after-death-crash-conviction.html
    Retired ambulance driver Michael Jennings, of Priory Road, Hungerford, made the revelation after Adam Lipowski, of Walmer Road, Reading, was convicted of causing death by dangerous driving at a recent hearing at Oxford Crown Court.

    On September 11, 2013, Mr Lipowski was driving the refuse lorry while using a mobile phone on the A4074 towards Reading when he slammed into the back of Mr Jennings’ car, shunting it into the path of an oncoming Ford Focus, and killing Mr Jennings’ passenger Andy Evans (pictured), aged 56, from Thatcham.

    The car was waiting to turn into the entrance of the Oratory School, Woodcote, when the 15-tonne refuse lorry crashed into the back of the Subaru at 36 mph, in a 30mph zone.

    The crash left the 69-year-old grandfather of five with brain damage, deep vein thrombosis in his left leg and a blood clot in his lungs.

    “I doubt I will ever fully recover from this crash,” said Mr Jennings, who was shot in the leg during the 1987 Hungerford tragedy in which 16 people were killed.

    “Spending years as an ambulance technician shows you there are always people worse off than you. I try to be positive, but this crash has changed my life.
    The “Bin Lorry” driver allegedly jailed for 5 years…

    Shot in the leg in 87 – Michael Jennings [with Christine] who “was driving the car in which Mr Evans was killed.
    He said life since had been “difficult” and added: “I’m not the man I was.”
    “My hands were on the wheel when this crash happened and Andy lost his life.”
    Mr Jennings said he remembered picking Mr Evans up in the car, but “nothing at all” from the rest of the day”
    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-32609297

    • This reply was modified 3 months ago by  xileffilex.
    #850444

    xileffilex
    Participant

    Marjorie Jackson interviewed from her hospital bed, sounding very insouciant.
    http://www.gettyimages.co.nz/detail/video/hungerford-shootings-victims-england-wiltshire-swindon-g-news-footage/685233100
    “He was shooting at everything… animals children, anything..he actually shot at my house…You see it in the movies, but you can’t actually see,think it’s going to happen to your own street” [sic]

    Check the laughing nurse Anne Eggleton (Senior Ward Sister) entering the hospital! Duping delight.
    Her husband was an ambulanceman attending the “massacre”
    A real tight-knit community.

    Forensics, police statements, broken windows…
    http://www.gettyimages.co.nz/detail/video/day-after-england-berkshire-hungerford-av-clock-on-top-of-news-footage/685241456
    and another very relaxed witness, cheerful, describing Ryan shooting “Alan” in the arm!
    That would be Alan Lepetit, who was allegedly shot twice in the arm and once in the back but miraculously survived. He is a brother of Mary Whiting
    “Several of Derek and Mary Whiting’s relatives were shot” [BBC]
    A very tight knit community indeed….
    Massacre
    An afternoon that changed a town forever
    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/resources/idt-sh/hungerford_massacre

    • This reply was modified 3 months ago by  xileffilex.
    #850454

    xileffilex
    Participant

    This article neatly sums up the “shooting spree”.
    http://www.blackpoolgazette.co.uk/news/hunted-down-by-a-maniac-1-414947

    the section after the petrol filling station [see previous post] is interesting –

    At around 12.45pm, Ryan was seen at his home in South View, Hungerford. He shot the family dog or dogs before turning the gun on his mother Dorothy Ryan.
    He torched the house with the petrol he stole from the station, the fire damaging three surrounding properties.
    He removed three shotguns from his car and shot and killed husband and wife Roland and Sheila Mason, who were in the back garden at their house in South View.
    On foot, Ryan proceeded towards Hungerford Common, shooting two more people, Marjorie Jackson and 14-year-old Lisa Mildenhall, who he shot in both legs. Mrs Jackson telephoned George White, a colleague of her husband, who contacted her husband Ivor Jackson.

    They were both later shot, leaving Mr White dead and Mr Jackson injured.

    On the footpath towards the common Ryan also killed Kenneth Clements who was walking with his family.

    So there we have Marjorie, seen in the earlier video clip in hospital.
    Marjorie and Ivor celebrated their 60th wedding anniversary earlier this year
    http://www.newburytoday.co.uk/news/hungerford/20506/couple-celebrate-diamond-wedding-anniversary.html

    A little detail emerged in 2012
    Ivor Jackson >was shot while sitting in a car, the driver, George White, dying at the wheel. Mr Jackson has had enough of the media but for a moment he relents.
    “My X-rays come out white, you know.”
    Why?
    “Because of the shrapnel. They can’t put me in an MRI scanner, either.”
    He points to his chest.
    “Here.”
    And then to his head.
    “Here, too.”
    The bullet that entered through his ear is still there.
    Hmmm
    No further details of Marjorie’s shooting.
    From Wiki
    Marjorie Jackson was shot once in the lower back as she watched Ryan from the window of her living room and 14-year-old Lisa Mildenhall four times in both legs as she stood outside her home
    [Ryan killed] White with a single shot to the head and leaving Jackson severely injured in his head and chest. White’s Toyota crashed into the rear of [already dead PC] Brereton’s police car. Jackson feigned death
    Is this passing the smell test? a Keystone Cops crash, playing dead?

    Questions, questions… how did the rest of the Clements family survive, apparently the “family” had been walking the dog with him, including son Robert Clements.
    Similarly with Lisa Mildenhall…
    Lisa Mildenhall had been in the garden with her sister and two children from another house. The other three ducked down on the floor but Ryan fired at Lisa. She was hit in the legs and the hips.

    witness – Sylvia Pascoe, who just happened to belong to the St John Ambulance…

    “I assumed it had been some sort of accident with glass and that Lisa had been cut,” she says….”There were no big wounds at the back of Lisa’s legs. I later realised that was because the bullets were still in her. I could see her hip bone.”

    The teenager was still standing up when Mrs Pascoe arrived to help her.


    a 14 year old shot four times….sure. Another smell test fail.

    #850456

    xileffilex
    Participant

    Probate records of victims, ctd
    I have covered Playle, Wainwright, Storm, and Gibbs X2.
    Susan Elaine Godfrey 25 Clayhill Road, Burghfield Common, Reading. Probate January 21 1988 £10710
    Mason x 2 no probate or administration
    George Richard White of Rowstock Mill Lane, Newbury Probate March 8 1988 £61,689
    Kenneth George Clements -no probate or administration
    Roger Brereton 3 Almond Avenue Newbury probate November 4 1987, less than £70,000
    Khan – no probate/admin
    Dorothy Ryan – no probate/admin
    Francis Colin Butler – ditto
    Marcus Barnard, 19 Platt Court, Administration January 15 1988 £13,609
    Eric Vardy, Brookside, Wantage Road, Great Shefford. Administration, less than £70,000 December 10 1987
    Sandra Jane Hill, 15 The Slade, Silverstone, Northamptonshire Administration October 19 1987 less than £70,000

    Clements,Butler and Barnard, inter alia, were all married

    Antony Nolan Palmer, who had previously married Helen L Garrett in 1988, later married Mrs Butler, nee Elizabeth R.A. Little, as noted above, in 1994.

    Elizabeth RA Little had married Colin Butler in 1982. She still lives locally
    http://www.192.com/atoz/people/palmer/elizabeth/rg17/3088973834/
    but there’s no trace of Antony.
    David Francis Butler b 1987 Q1 is obviously the son of Francis Butler.

    There seem to be three Clements children, Robert A b 1960 [vide supra] along with Gary A and Amanda Marie b 1964/6 respectively
    http://archive.li/wVS9S#selection-2087.0-2087.440
    As Robert Clements clambered over the fence and into the adjoining school, he shouted out: ‘He’s shot the old man.’ Ken Clements’s sister and his two daughters did likewise, and ran, quite literally, for their lives. In fact Ken Clements died while trying to comfort his dog, which had been startled by all the shooting. When the pathologist examined the former soldier’s body he was to find the dog’s lead still clasped firmly in his hand.

    so who’s the sister of Ken referred to above?
    possibly Tessa or Margaret [J]
    the former who had two daughters Helen and Alison Jane Penney, son Jonathan is less likely. FAther Norman Penney died in 1990 aged 55.

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About xileffilex

doubter of everything in the MSM – photojournalists especially. Especially interested in the David Kelly suicide psy-op, Diana faked crash, Boston Marathon hoax. Old man with time to read behind the headlines. Southern England

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