Fakeologist.com › Forums › Other PsyOps/Hoaxes › War as a hoax
- This topic has 10 replies, 3 voices, and was last updated 1 year, 2 months ago by rgos.
September 7, 2018 at 8:13 am #855620
OK… we are familiar with the memorials which pop up, sure as night follows day, after a staged event where #NDNGH.
It is frequently alluded to here at fakeologist.com that “war is a hoax” and is “strategic relocation”
So when how far back do we go to find real deaths on memorials? Iraq? Vietnam, Korea? WW2? WW1?
We can probably rule out all the names on recent disasters as being relocations.
I just pulled one small village in England out of the hat – every similar place will have a war memorial either in a public place, cemetery, church, listing the names of the men who died – Caston, Norfolk, which I have no connection with, and which bears a modest 15 names for WW1. You can research their births and locations online.
They all have memorials in various locations in mainland Europe also all expensively created and maintained.
They existed, like 9/11 “victims” I have researched. Where did they go to? Caston is just one of thousands of similar villages and towns in the UK which have war memorials.
[one small note, a minor error I spot straight away – Richard Hannant was never Richard, he was christened and married as “Dick”]September 24, 2018 at 8:16 pm #855909
Someone at Piece of Mindful has just brought up the war memorial conundrum
A Proper Glance at the Proper Gander Podcast
A fag packet calculation equates with the official death toll of 1,000,000 approx in the UK.
What is not extrapolated is the number of injured or seriously injured people, mainly men, in WW1.
We often find in modern, baby hoaxes that there is always an unusually high ratio of deaths to injuries as it’s easier to “new life” someone than to stage injuries, and when the latter is done, it’s rarely convincing.
UK population in 1914, which included all of Ireland, was 46,000,000. So that’s 23,000,000 men. How many were, say, aged between 14 and 40?
In fact at this page
we find some figures and the injured to dead ratio is not much about 2, say 2.3:1 just for the army.
Total mobilised [army] 4,006,000
Total dead/injured 2,325,000 approx
approx 57 per cent….
Obviously I can’t veryfy that, they are taken from sources cited in the link. Air force, Navy and onshore civilian reported casualties are much lower.October 25, 2018 at 1:29 pm #856199
As Dave J says, war is “controlled demolition and stretetic relocation” to which I’d add planned redevelopment.
Considering London in WW2, it was quite amazing that St Paul’s Cathedral survived intact when everything around it was being bombed to bits.
Here’s an interactive map from the “blitz”
Before I discovered the above, I had come across these photos which had been aired on a blog…a bombing in High Holborn London WC1 at the top of Chancery Lane said to have occurred on October 8 1940, the start of the “blitz”
The position of the bus seems unrelated to the damaged which appears contained within one building
Writing the following day, Colin Perry reported, “Chancery Lane was bombed in the morning rush hour. Charing Cross Station was hit, 8 killed and 27 injured. Another bomb fell near Odhams reducing a building already scheduled for demolition **, knocking in several shops and killing a number of people.
** oh oh!!
At least one bomb dropped in High Holborn – from the photographic evidence, a building was destroyed and a bus was badly damaged, whether by blast, debris or a second bomb is uncertain.
The bus outside 12 High Holborn retains its shell intact (including the rook on the upper deck) and appears to have stopped past the wrecked building (near the junction with Grays Inn Road).
The blogger has research the dead at number 12 High Holborn, three Italians from an Italian Restaurant there, plus an unconnected man [whose wife died conveniently 14 months later, the following year]
The death of William Charles George Bellhouse at 12 High Holborn is recorded as occurring on the following day, October 9….
No trace remains of any of the above buildings. The bus prop was returned to service quickly with a new body, LT1231 GW 5893
June 19, 2019 at 11:31 am #858101
- This reply was modified 4 years, 4 months ago by xileffilex.
A recent 75th anniversary of a war time event not caused by the “enemy” allows a recapitualtion of the official narrative
Church bells have rung out to remember two men who died in a massive World War Two explosion while trying to save a town from destruction 75 years ago.
A train carrying bombs caught fire while travelling through Soham in Cambridgeshire, on 2 June 1944.
Driver Benjamin Gimbert and fireman James Nightall attempted to drive it out of town when it exploded, killing Nighthall and signalman Frank Bridges.
The big crane 1944 style
A nice big crater
Kay Sinclair, whose father was an off-duty firefighter who went to help, said: “He was told to crawl into the crater in which the train was lying and retrieve the body of James Nightall.
and then what?
Amateur photographer W Martin Lane heard the explosion in nearby Ely…
Walter Martin Lane 1906 – 1973 [n.b. no probate issued]
Amazingly the fen floods [of 1947] were the second tragedy that W. Martin Lane had pictured. When the Soham ammunition train explosion echoed across the fen to Ely in 1944 he had taken a taxi to the spot to record the devastation, despite the censorship that was imposed on the incident. His photographs show the wreckage of the locomotive that Driver Ben Gimbert and Fireman James Nightall had driven out of the station pulling the one burning wagon away from the rest of the consignment of 50 wagons loaded with bombs and detonators. They also
show the crater that resulted when the forty 5001b bombs exploded. By the time Lane arrived work was in progress to clear the wreckage and demolish the remains of the signal box where
Frank Bridges had lost his life. Soon the line was open once more for other ammunition convoys to maintain the bomber offensive during the lead-up to D-Day. His pictures made the front page of the Daily Express after he’d hitch-hiked to London to deliver them.
Looks like he was the official photographer called in after the scene had been set.
June 19, 2019 at 5:34 pm #858109Tom DalpraParticipant
- This reply was modified 3 years, 9 months ago by xileffilex.
Ah,yes. The Soham explosion. I’ve often wondered. My family moved to Soham in 1973. I went to school there. In, I think, 1974 the train driver Ben Gimbert came to my infants school and I was one of only a select couple of children who met him.
We’d been told the story in class and I’d been fascinated.
Funnily enough I still remember the meeting with some clarity.He was there with his wife and his medal and was sweet but seemed quite old at just the 71 years he would have been then, as I remember it. He talked about his side of the story. His guilt and the bravery of the other guy he sent back to uncouple the trains and then about all his extensive injuries. He was ‘lucky to be alive’. I remember him showing me the shrapnel that was still under his skin. You could touch it.
Now I assume nothing, but I certainly welcome a chance to have a little re-look at that incident.
Though I don’t go for the hyped terminology, “War is a Hoax” that doesn’t mean I don’t think war is a deception.
It’s the exact nature of that deception I still wonder about.
With this Soham event. We accept that deaths do occur in the military but so often from accidents.
Could this explosion simply have been the wartime accident that it looked like, which was then blamed on sabotage and was a chance to further hype the War effort in the fens and glorify these actually accidental deaths?
I don’t know, just a thought.
Old Ben Gimbert didn’t seem like a bullshitter back then, but I was seven.
- This reply was modified 3 years, 9 months ago by Tom Dalpra.
- This reply was modified 3 years, 9 months ago by Tom Dalpra.
DalTampraJune 19, 2019 at 6:20 pm #858112
The shrapnel were still there 30 years later? So close to the skin, but impossible to remove? What do I know.
Touring schools….rather like holocaust survivors, I guess.
Perhaps I should have filed it under suspicious media events, but it did occur in wartime.
He had to undergo numerous operations in Newmarket, resulting in the removal of 32 pieces of shrapnel from his body.
source – http://www.vconline.org.uk/benjamin-gimbert-gc/4589169598
I’m not sure I can take this any further. Unless any more images turn up.June 21, 2019 at 4:51 am #858119Tom DalpraParticipant
My understanding is that it’s not uncommon for shrapnel, post blast injury, to be left in the body and be fairly harmless. Apparently it’s quite common among veterans to have bits of metal in them.
The only question I have is how did Gimbert really get his shrapnel injuries?
The photographer braving wartime censorship and then hitch hiking to London with his photograph to make the mainstream news does look like a tidy story.
But it’s difficult to gauge for me. It was a different time and I don’t know how likely that would have been back then.
This story has become a small part of WWII history and has been kept alive over the years as every now and then a a broadsheet newspaper might re-hash it.
One thing that strikes me about it within the context of ‘War as a Hoax’ is that it was, on the face of it, a terrible accident, not a case of death in combat.
It could be said that the hyping of this incident could actually support the notion of War hoaxing, in that it shows no evidence of death by combat.
It was one of the most famous wartime incidents in the Fens of East Anglia but, guess what, it was a big accident.
DalTampraAugust 4, 2020 at 1:15 pm #1479126
A gem which emerged while researching something unrelated…
Scenario – WW2 1940
Freemason and Mayor of Chelmsford, John Ockelford Thompson died in October 1940, courtesy of a lone German bomber which managed a direct hit on his home and took with him other family members. Hmmm
The result. I wonder if there was any trace of any German metal there…
He was also CBE, and
During the early months of the Second World Ward John was a prominent figure behind Chelmsford’s Flight of Fighters Fund (a fundraising effort to buy Spitfire aircraft) and the local Air Raid Damage Funds Association
well blow me down! Sounds like a case of controlled demolition and strategic relocation…
The bomb is believed to have passed through the building and exploded in its basement, ‘collapsing it like a pack of cards’
Rather like building 7. Because the heat of the fire caused structural failure no doubt…
OCtober 13 1940. Funeral in the Cathedral just 3 days later! Quick work!
scene quickly sealed off….
Debris was strewn across New London Road and caused its closure between Queen Street and Southborough Road. The mayor, his family and servants were at home and were thought to have been sheltering in the basement when the bomb struck.
The rescue services were soon at work on the scene and by 10.40 p.m. New London Road had been cleared. However, it was not until 1.01 a.m. that the first casualty figures were received at the Police H.Q. – “Ten people involved (actually nine), two children recovered dead, three householders rescued but one injured, mayor and mayoress still unaccounted for”. The dead children were the Mayor’s grandchildren, 8 year-old Audrey Mary Thompson and her 14 month-old sister Diana Louisa Thompson. Their mother, Muriel who suffered serious injuries, was one of those rescued, along with a nurse and another daughter-in-law of the Mayor. By 5.31 a.m. a further two bodies were recovered, and by 11.50 a.m. another, the fifth fatality, was found. Rescue workers continued their search into Tuesday and in mid afternoon the remains of sixth body, a servant, were found. The four adults killed were subsequently identified as the Mayor, 68 year-old John Ockelford Thompson C.B.E. D.L. J.P., his 78 year-old wife Emma, their 41 year-old son Lt-Col. Thomas Coverley Thompson and Alice Maud Emery, also 41, who was a servant for the mayor.
the last named, unmarried, of 70 Waterhouse Street. probate to William Edward Emery, retired bricklayer, her father, 1868-1964
£508 – not a bad sum for a housekeeper.
So, what happened to the “serously injured” Muriel, Mrs Muriel Morton Thompson nee Heathcote b 1906 Prescot [who was co-administrator of her husband’s will?
Probate to Reginald John Tanner Thompson, [1896-1956], journalist, in all cases, part or wholly, latterly of Foxtons, 23 The Street, Little Waltham. probate £21,398
Was the other daugher-in-law survivor Christabel d. 1977, wife of the above?
Emma Thompson was 10 years older than her husband.
No expansion on the one injury.. as is often the case it’s life or sudden death as usual.
“What do you think, internet friends?”September 25, 2021 at 2:40 pm #1994871
The sinking of HMS Hood in remote waters between Iceland and Greenland. Allegedly sunk by the Bismarck. 80th anniversary time in 2021.
The largest RN ship sunk and biggest loss of Naval life
Clues: old ship, built 1918.
Sunk, allegedly in 3 minutes. Two “inquries” to produce the official explosion narrative yet allowing various theories to remain through the decades. **
1418 crew, 1415 victims. => the convenient 3 survivors to tell the story
Albert Edward Pryke Briggs, MBE 1923-2008
Ted continued to lead a very active life. He remained a sought-after guest speaker for television documentaries and radio programmes. He even visited the wreck site in July 2001, releasing the Roll of Honour plaque which memorialises his fallen shipmates and the Mighty Hood.
Briggs himself attempted to swim away from the vessel but was pulled under by her as she started toward the ocean bottom. Briggs remembers struggling to stay afloat, giving up hope, and then miraculously being propelled to the surface. This was probably the result of air escaping from the ship, possibly the bridge windows collapsing and releasing trapped air, or a boiler explosion
The wreck was “discovered” in 2001 for the 60th anniversary and a TV program commissioned. The next year, the site became a protected ‘war grave’. In 2012 permission was given for the same search team to recover the ship’s bell…..but this only succeeded in 2015….
The other survivors – Robert Ernest Tilburn
https://www.iwm.org.uk/collections/item/object/80011489 [audio, 30 mins]
and William John Dundas
Why did it “blow up”?
The Loss of HMS Hood – But why did it blow up??
**the exact reason the magazines detonated is likely to remain unknown since that area of the ship was destroyed in the explosion. Ideal.October 30, 2021 at 8:43 am #1995655
More strange tales from the deep – the Battle of Coronel [off Chile] in 1914 in which the Royal Navy engagd the German East Asia Cruiser Squadron which included the Scharnhorst and Gneisenau.
1660 killed, 2 armoured cruisers sunk, 1 light cruiser damaged
All British. Allegedly only three injured on the German side.
Sunk ships – HMS Good Hope and HMS Monmouth Damaged – HMS Glasgow Also present Merchant cruiser HMS Otranto
Monmouth was first to be silenced. Good Hope continued firing, continuing to close on the German ships and receiving more and more fire. By 19:50, she had also ceased firing; subsequently her forward section exploded, then she broke apart and sank, with no one witness to the sinking.
Scharnhorst switched her fire to Monmouth, while Gneisenau joined Leipzig and Dresden which had been engaging Glasgow. The German light cruisers had only 10.5 cm (4 in) guns, which had left Glasgow almost unscathed, but these were now joined by the 21 cm (8 in) guns of Gneisenau. John Luce, captain of Glasgow, determined that nothing would be gained by staying and attempting to fight. It was noticed that each time he fired, the flash of his guns was used by the Germans to aim a new salvo, so he also ceased firing. One compartment of the ship was flooded but she could still manage 24 kn (28 mph; 44 km/h). He returned first to Monmouth, which was now dark but still afloat. Nothing was to be done for the ship, which was sinking slowly but would attempt to beach on the Chilean coast. Glasgow turned south and departed..
Good Hope was sunk with all hands, a total of 926 officers and ratings. Four of the midshipmen aboard the ship were the first casualties of the newly formed Royal Canadian Navy.
Monmouth capsized at 21:58, taking her entire crew of 734 men with her as the seas were too rough to attempt any rescue effort
This was Britain’s first naval defeat since the Battle of Lake Champlain in the War of 1812
And we have a lucky escape! [or an unlucky transfer]
Sir Christopher “Kit” Cradock commanding the Good Hope only transferred shortly before the battle from another ship, HMS Suffolk
in Halifax, Canada, transferred his flag to her because she was faster than Suffolk.
ood Hope arrived at Halifax on 14 August, and on 15 August met Suffolk at sea. Captain Bentinck J. D. Yelverton transferred to Suffolk, and Cradock, his staff, and his Flag Captain, Captain Philip Francklin, transferred to Good Hope, which then sailed for Bermuda
Also the captain Philip Francklin also had an unlucky transfer to the Good Hope on August 19 1914, his predecessor was Bentinck Yelverton
Lucky survivor Yelverton lived until 1959 in Bookham, dying aged 94, but without Wiki page.
Cradock never married, but kept a dog which accompanied him at sea
There is a huge memorial to him in York Minster.
Another [gunnery] officer I came across by accident, Percival van Straubenzee, was one of the 1660 who also transferred from HMS Suffolk:
Fate of the Otranto:
on the evening of 1 October 1918, the ship accidentally rammed the French fishing schooner Croisine off Newfoundland while the latter was returning home to St. Malo with a full load of cod…. The following day, the first death from the influenza pandemic occurred and the soldier was buried at sea…
after crossing the Atlantic..
Otranto’s Officer of the Watch thought that it was the Irish coast [not Scotland, lol!] and turned north. HMS Kashmir, another liner turned troopship, was only about a half-mile (0.80 km) to Otranto’s north and the turns placed them on a collision course. Both ships attempted to avoid the collision, but their efforts cancelled out and Kashmir rammed Otranto on the port side amidships, a few miles off the rocky coast of Islay
Easy to do…
About three hours after the collision, a large wave dropped Otranto onto “Old Women’s Reef”, about three-quarters of a mile (1.2 km) offshore, near the entrance to Machir Bay, missing a sandy beach just north of the reef. The action of the enormous waves quickly broke the ship in half and then ripped her bottom out. Of the roughly 489 men aboard after [destroyer HMS] Mounsey departed ****, only 21 (17 of these were American) were able to successfully swim ashore, although two of these, including one American, later died of their injuries. The islanders were able to rescue some of these men by pulling them up the coastal cliffs or from rocks just offshore. By the following morning, the liner had been completely demolished by the heavy seas and the coastline was strewn with wreckage and hundreds of bodies in piles up to 15 feet (4.6 m) deep ***. A total of 316 Americans were found and buried on Islay and the nearby island of Muck.
elsewhere it is reported that 431 died, despite
**** having rescued 596 of Otranto’s passengers and crew before, with no more room for any more survivors and damaged by impacts with the side of the troopship, was forced to break off the rescue attempts and make for port.
Is any of this catalogue of buffoonery credible?January 19, 2022 at 4:52 am #1997176rgosParticipant
Not many people in this thread, but I’m still reading. Good research, xileffelix.
- You must be logged in to reply to this topic.