Jesse Owens and the 1936 Olympics

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  • #166635
    Tom Dalpra
    Participant

    ds

    We all know the story.
    As a child I grew up ‘knowing’ that Hitler had been thwarted in his ‘supreme-race’ propaganda exercise with the victories of Jesse Owens in the 1936 Olympic games. 4 Golds.

    The drama in the long jump read like a script.
    The appropriately named German, Luz Long went ahead, Owens bettered him, then the German equalled the European record to go ahead once again, before Owens
    took the gold with an even further leap.

    He was the most successful athlete at the games and as such has been credited with “single-handedly crushing Hitler’s myth of Aryan supremacy.”

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jesse_Owens

    This was a key sporting moment in history.
    I couldn’t help looking at Owen’s number there when reviewing this old propaganda exercise.

    733 . Also I noticed he had a real habit of tucking in his shirt to make it almost look like 777. That could be a coincidence. As of course, could the number 7 33 being there, anyway.

    But, was it? Isn’t it more likely, another clue to affirm the hidden hand?

    ds

    The Olympic Stadium Berlin was built for the 1936 Olympics.
    The 2006 World Cup Final was played there.
    2015 it’ll be the Champions League final.

    Check the twin towers.

    Nice place to stage events.
    Big sporting fixes, on-going.

    ds

    DalTampra

    #166674
    xileffilex
    Participant

    Funny you should mention Owens, Tom. Years ago I bought a picture postcard of an hotel in Prague [in the UK] from the 30s. On the back was a pencil signature which some time later I deciphered as Jessie Owens. I had no idea at the time that he went to Prague straight after the games – after Cologne, before Bochum and London as it turned out- to confirm that it was indeed his signature – perhaps signed for another hotel guest.
    Here he is arriving in Prague

    source

    #166855
    Tom Dalpra
    Participant

    That’s quite an autograph for any collection xileffilex.
    So it was a fluke that you bought it? It wasn’t sold as an autographed card?

    That’s a brilliant find, if so. Jesse Owens has to be one of the most important sporting figures of the 20th century.

    The main point I wanted to get to with Owens was that he wasn’t snubbed by Hitler.
    Not at all, it seems.
    Jesse Owens: “Hitler didn’t snub me—it was [FDR] who snubbed me. The president didn’t even send me a telegram.”

    Owens even claimed he waved to Hitler and Hitler waved back!
    Owens was able to stay in the same hotels as white people in Berlin which was certainly not always the case back in the States where segregation was still common.

    Owens was extremely popular with the German public who mobbed him in the streets and cheered him in the stadium.

    Hitler was a popular leader at that time. It wouldn’t actually have made sense for him to snub Owens, I don’t think.
    fd

    The evidence for Hitler snubbing Jesse Owens is very weak. All we really seem to have is
    eye-witnesses who were standing with him in the stadium who apparently said: ”He didn’t seem very happy.”

    fd

    The truth, it appears, is not the story we’re told.

    Hey, he was even sponsored by a notable German name in 20th century sport, who got in on the Owens success story:

    ”Just before the competitions, Owens was visited in the Olympic village by Adi Dassler, the founder of the Adidas athletic shoe company. He persuaded Owens to use Gebrüder Dassler Schuhfabrik shoes, the first sponsorship for a male African-American athlete”.

    In later life Owens seems to have come round to popular opinion and gone along with the idea that he was snubbed.
    He went along with his own myth, in the end. What can you do?

    The truth is, the snubbing myth holds no water at all.

    http://german.about.com/library/blgermyth10.htm
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jesse_Owens
    http://historynewsnetwork.org/article/571

    DalTampra

    #167562
    xileffilex
    Participant

    There you go Tom. While researching this, I did notice that he was effectively dumped back in the USA after his series of demonstration races in Germany [and Prague] I am sure these would not have gone ahead if Hitler had been displeased. Here’s the postcard, with another showing the hotel where he stayed. It has been dated conveniently. I did check the signature against a genuine one online, and it’s the man himself who signe it. Completely overlooked by the vendor. [The indoor pool photo is a bonus, bought elsewhere] My 1966 Nagel’s trave guide tells me it was only a class B hotel, with 182 beds.

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    #167637
    Tom Dalpra
    Participant

    I did check the signature against a genuine one online, and it’s the man himself who signe it.

    hg

    Really? You’re an expert at telling forgeries by looking at a photograph on line then!
    I’m not. It may well be genuine and you may be able to tell and who gives a shit anyway because he was there, but, I have to ask.

    I’m also quite surprised you managed to find another old black and white postcard of that particular hotel, elsewhere! haha

    Really xilef?

    I’m deducing you’re either a collecter or a wonk of some sort? haha!

    ds

    I’ll give you a fiver for both, anyway. That’s my last offer! 🙂

    Now, tell me you’re a collector xilef. How else could you find two old black and white cards from Prague AXA Hotel?

    Interesting period. I find it fascinating looking at that relatively recent, relatively local, history.

    DalTampra

    #167820
    xileffilex
    Participant

    Collector Tom? I can’t move in our house for postcards and vinyl. Actually, I am fascinated by inter-war Czech architecture, they were so advanced…
    These cards mainly seem to arise from house clearances – how does one prove the provenance of anything – like dinosaur skeletons for example, or skulls found in Sussex?
    I am satisfied it’s genuine, since it wasn’t even advertised as an autograph, Tom ,but call it a hoax is you like! Incidentally the address was altered to Poric 40 after the war.

    OK, OK, I’ll dig out the old 1936 guest book from the Axa [opened 1932] next time I’m in Prague.

    Wonk? No, I’m just a boring Tavistockian spook. 😉

    #167893
    Tom Dalpra
    Participant

    Yeh, sorry xilef, it was really a round about way of asking: ”You must be some kind of collector?”.

    Interesting stuff. I have a friend I work with who collects, curates and trades 78’s. I enjoy the treasure hunting but I love the snapshots of history we discover and the old newspapers and magazines, which I find on the side.

    Specifically on the autograph, I have an ex-colleague who, as a 12 year old scamp, used to copy all the cricketer autographs he collected during Summer evenings at Fenners here in Cambridge.

    Garfield Sobers, Geoffrey Boycott, Fred Truman… he got the autographs and then simply copied the signatures on to pages of an autograph book and sold them to his friends. He told me he did hundreds.

    Who could tell the difference?

    Obviously there could have been a black market of forgeries back there at the AXA in ’36. Rudi, the bell-boy ( for example) could make a few quid knocking a few out after the great Jesse Owen’s stay.

    Just sayin’. You ask: ”How does one prove the provenance of anything?’

    My answer is ”Exactly. Therefore, the best we can say here is that ”it looks authentic”. Not ”It is authentic.”

    Is this pedantry, my dear research partner?
    Excuse me, if it is.

    I don’t mean to get side-tracked. I find the thread interesting, including your piece of history.

    Now, I’d love to go to Prague. I hope to go quite soon, really.
    If I do, I’ll make sure to send you a postcard. 🙂

    DalTampra

    #167999
    Tom Dalpra
    Participant

    TALKING OF PRAGUE 1936, MEET SWEET RUTH AARONS

    FD

    1936 World Table Tennis Champion in cosmopolitan, architecturally-advanced, Prague.
    Let’s face it. She’s blonde, athletic and brilliant.

    http://www.britishpathe.com/video/sensational-table-tennis/query/table+tennis

    Interesting set-up in the context of the time and the big international picture.

    Ruth Aarons beat Nazi Germany’s Astrid Krebsbach in the final and then
    upon winning the gold medal, refused to shake the hand of Astrid Krebsbach, her opponent from Nazi Germany, proclaiming: “I am Jewish”.- Davar Newspaper 1936 Headline (Davar was a Hebrew-language daily newspaper published in the British Mandate of Palestine and Israel between 1925 and May 1996, I didn’t know).

    This was in the context of this sort of thing from 1937 New York:
    fd

    fd

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ruth_Aarons

    Looking at her background:

    Ruth Aarons was born in Stamford, Connecticut to Leila (née Hughes), an opera singer, and Alfred E. Aarons, a Broadway theatrical producer. She came from a wealthy Jewish family, and lived in New York City, where she attended and graduated from St. Agatha Episcopal High School in 1936

    She graduated and won the World Table Tennis Championship that same year. No doubt she was brilliant. This girl could really play, but I just look at the world then and see a girl in New York with a talent for the game getting set-up to win the World Championship in Prague against a German.

    Just a little side-show, maybe. Another little piece of effectively staged propaganda. Some world promo. Success by sponsorship, for a purpose. What’s new?

    Excuse me. I got in late from a gig and I’ve been unwinding,
    This perhaps doesn’t go anywhere, but
    I like these little snap shots of history, I dream on the black and white images. It helps form a picture of the time a little bit, maybe.

    Ruth Aarons – US Table Tennis Legend.

    fd

    DalTampra

    #169411
    Tom Dalpra
    Participant

    WELL DONE MATE.
    Stella Walsh (right, A.K.A Stanislawa Walasiewicz A.K.A Stan Walasiewicz) congratulates Helen Stephens after she won the women’s 100 metres at the 1936 Olympics.

    ds

    I found an interesting little story when I looked at the winner of the Women’s 100 m in 1936.
    Helen Stephens from the U.S.A beat reigning champion Stanislawa Walasiewicz of Poland.

    After the race Stephens was accused of being male and was forced to submit to a ‘genital inspection’ to prove otherwise. She passed.

    It wasn’t until 44 years later when Stanislawa or Stella Walsh ( as the other athlete was known)…

    ” was killed during an armed robbery in Cleveland, Ohio, on 4 December 1980. An autopsy showed that she possessed male genitalia, although some sources suggest she also displayed some female characteristics.( Some sources suggest? What does that mean? What are we talking about here? Meat and two veg and a kebab? This is vague.) Detailed investigation has also revealed that she had both 45X0 and 46XY chromosomes.” – Winkypedia.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stanis%C5%82awa_Walasiewicz

    Funny that they checked one woman but not the other bloke in 1936!

    I don’t mean to be childish about Stella Walsh or any transgender person. She wasn’t a ‘bloke’, I know. I wouldn’t call her that.
    We see there was enough male in her though, to give her an advantage.

    Back to Stephens at the 1936 Olympics. Check out the story she brought home about old Adolf.

    ”Stephens is quoted by Olympic historian David Wallechinsky about her post-race experience with Adolf Hitler. “He comes in and gives me the Nazi salute. I gave him a good, old-fashioned Missouri handshake,” she said. “Once more Hitler goes for the jugular vein. He gets hold of my fanny and begins to squeeze and pinch, and hug me up. And he said: You’re a true Aryan type. You should be running for Germany.’ So after he gave me the once over and a full massage, he asked me if I’d like to spend the weekend in Berchtesgaden.” Stephens, who was closeted about being lesbian, refused.”

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Helen_Stephens

    Adolf you filthy beast! I’m not sure how much to believe of that story but if I had to guess I’d say there’s probably a bit of truth there. IE Hitler did perhaps man-handle her. I doubt he said ‘You’re a good Aryan, run for Germany’. He might have been trying to see if she was a bloke or not, to tell the lads. It was obviously in question.
    Her post-race, ungainly-sounding ‘genital examination’ is certainly evidence of a somewhat, ‘piece-of-meat’ approach, at the time.

    I see that happily that people ( ‘ladies’ particularly ) are treated with a little more respect today, but I also wonder how much other things have things really changed in 79 years?

    ds

    gf

    DalTampra

    #169484
    xileffilex
    Participant

    Good work, Tom. In a later age, Ruth Arons would have been an a NASA astronaut. I trust she stayed at the Hotel Axa earlier in 1936 in Prague. There must be some autographs out there…

    #169525
    smj
    Participant

    ruth does have a bit of a poppy northcutt thing going on… http://www.businessinsider.com/poppy-northcutt-helped-apollo-astronauts-2014-12?op=1

    #169566
    Tom Dalpra
    Participant

    Oh my. Poppy Northcutt… Well, why not, let’s have a moments digression.

    This 60’s chick is hot, blonde and super-intelligent. You know, at maths and science-stuff that men do?

    She’s lovely sitting there at a space desk…
    ds

    Great hair, great skin. Great at sums…
    ds

    In the UK we have a long-running game show called Countdown.
    fd

    But the narrative. What happened with Apollo 8 and what she did. Tee hee hee.
    It really is silly.

    ”Northcutt’s diligent attention to detail helped NASA develop the final route that the Apollo 8 crew would take home. Her work meant many nights studying hundreds of lines of computer code to plan the mission.”

    Oooh yes, I can imagine. Studying hundreds of lines of computer code must have been very important when planning a route back from the moon. Hahadeha

    How complicated can it be? Did it involve a detour to drop anyone off at another planet? Or to include a toilet break at a space service station?

    ”If it took the astronauts too long for them to swing around the moon, it would mean they had less fuel than expected and Northcutt and the rest of Mission Operations would have to make on-the-spot changes ”

    Ahh, I see. They had to swing by the moon.

    Now, this is perhaps a lesson to us all. What happens if you live a lie for 50 years?

    On this evidence, you might turn into a munter.

    gf

    http://uk.businessinsider.com/poppy-northcutt-helped-apollo-astronauts-2014-12?op=1?r=US

    DalTampra

    #170975
    rgos
    Participant

    Jesse Owens and the Nazis, Hotel Axa and Prague, table tennis blondes, athletes and Uncle Adolf, a bit of “transvestigation,” and then some Apollo 8 poppy to top it off.

    This is sending me in into such a head space.

    I like it. Looking at the Nazis with fakeologist goggles on has got to be the non plus ultra.

    More, more!

    #171045
    xileffilex
    Participant

    An excellent divertissement, Tom. Perhaps we can get the thread back on pre-1945 Germany with these shots of Fonz-ish Jesco von Puttkamer with Wernher von Braun and JFK…check that quiff at 0:08!

    http://www.nasa.gov/topics/people/features/von_puttkamer_obit.html

    For more than a decade, he authored the ISS Daily Report, which chronicled the lives and activities of the crew members living aboard the International Space Station.

    #171148
    Tom Dalpra
    Participant

    Ah, Jesco von Puttkamer – you need to look slick when you’re selling ten years of bullshit ”For more than a decade, he authored the ISS Daily Report, which chronicled the lives and activities of the crew members living aboard the International Space Station.”

    fd

    Now, you say pre-1945 Nazi Germany xileffilex? This Jesco was born in ’33. That was a good year to start for the Nazis. He went on to be a long-time NASA face, having left Germany in 1962. Following in the footsteps of von Braun.

    He has a relatively brief wiki page. We learn:
    ”He belonged to a widely extended noble family, von Puttkamer. According to a widespread family tradition, each firstborn Puttkamer receives the first name of “Jesco”.”

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jesco_von_Puttkamer

    I have to wonder. Was he related to another Jesco Puttkamer; Karl-Jesco von Puttkamer to give him his full title? He’s just about the right age to be his son. Different hair style, mind!

    ds

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Karl-Jesco_von_Puttkamer

    Right in there with Hitler, this guy.
    ”Immediately prior to the outbreak of World War II he was the captain of a frigate. He then returned to the role as adjutant to Hitler and in September 1943 he was promoted to rear admiral.

    Puttkamer was injured on 20 July 1944 when the bomb exploded during the July 20 Plot attempt to kill Hitler and was awarded the Wound Badge.”

    sa

    It’s probably not his son is it? Probably there’s loads of Jesco von Puttkamers. Just another German military aristocrat related to von Bismarks wife.
    It just amused me. The idea that such a high ranking Nazis’ son might find such a good job with NASA. Surely if is the son, he doesn’t go around telling people his father was one of Hitler’s most trusted and loyal men?

    DalTampra

    #171852
    PeterShea
    Member

    greetings tom/felix. great stuff, as usual.

    I had to post the below graphic in relation to poppy(cock) northcuff and the comment: ”Northcutt’s diligent attention to detail helped NASA develop the final route that the Apollo 8 crew would take home. Her work meant many nights studying hundreds of lines of computer code to plan the mission.”

    what a load of (poppy)cock and balls it all is, eh?

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    #172108
    Tom Dalpra
    Participant

    Peter said: ”what a load of (poppy)cock and balls it all is, eh?”

    Haha, quite , Peter.

    fd

    fd

    Well yes, but it’s all relative, isn’t it?

    DalTampra

    #172110
    xileffilex
    Participant

    Moving swiftly on to East Prussia…and another staged event?

    Hitler survived, as did everyone else who was shielded from the blast by the conference table leg

    source: Wikipedia – July 20 1944 plot

    Von Puttkamer on the fringes at #10

    Those ultra-resilient table legs are probably the stippled areas.

    It is presumed that Colonel Heinz Brandt, who was standing next to Hitler, used his foot to move the briefcase aside by pushing it behind the leg of the conference table, thus unwittingly deflecting the blast from Hitler but causing his own death with the loss of one of his legs when the bomb detonated

    killed: [positions 3,4,7,11]
    General Günther Korten – Chief of General Staff of the Air Force
    Colonel Heinz Brandt – Aide to General Heusinger
    General Rudolf Schmundt – Chief of the Army Staff Office
    Stenographer Heinz Berger

    The “Right Trousers” of Adolf:

    It’s absurd

    Another staged event?

    PS
    Our cool NASA dude Jesco was the sone of

    Jesco (1903–69, s. W), der Ende der 50er Jahre als Geschäftsführer der Hispano-Suiza Deutschland im Zusammenhang mit deren Waffengeschäften in die Schlagzeilen geriet und 1958 nach Kanada auswanderte,

    http://www.deutsche-biographie.de/sfz103894.html
    I can’t immediately see a close link with the Wolf’s Lair survivor

    #172183
    xileffilex
    Participant

    Quite how or why von Braun picked von Puttkamer is not clear:

    He was born in Leipzig in 1933; his family spent the Second World War in Switzerland, and Von Puttkamer gained a degree in mechanical engineering at Aachen. Von Braun summoned him to Huntsville, Alabama in 1962, and he worked with him at the Marshall Space Flight Center as an engineer, and program manager in charge of long-range planning of deep-space flights.

    I think the Hispano Suiza may be wrong, but there’s precious little mention of his father post-WW2.

    cleff

    Prof. Dr von Puttkamer wurde am 22.09.1933 in Leipzig (Salomonstr. 25b) geboren. Vater Baron Jesco von Puttkamer arbeitete als Redakteur im Reclam-Verlag bis zur Emmigration in die Schweiz.

    http://www.spaceeducation.de/de/presse/presse-news/73-news-presse-deutsch/382-80jahre-jvp.html

    Während des Zweiten Weltkriegs lebte er mit seiner Mutter und den Geschwistern überwiegend in der Schweiz.

    http://www.scilogs.de/labyrinth-des-schreibens/daidalos-der-raumfahrt-jesco-von-puttkamer-1933-2012/

    Puttkamer engagierte sich als technischer Berater für „Star Trek – der Film“ (1979).

    Now we have this ISS plaque unveiling at his birthplace in Leipzig in September 2013 [another was placed in Huntsville to reinforce the space legacy…]
    IMG_6154

    IMG_6161

    #172433
    rgos
    Participant

    Nasa and the Nazis, joined at the fakeologist hip.

    I’m spacing out.

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