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In reply to: Fake Aviation Crashes and other Helihoaxes
The heroic, deceased steward[ess] Jaqueline Mary Urbanski aged 27, nee Ainsworth [married John P Urbanski who vanishes [no issue] [There is another John Paul Urbanski b 1977, m 2004 who is certainly someone else] He may have been Jan Urbanski [sic] born Littleborough 1958.
That leads to a dead end, unfortunately.
Touching wedding photo surfaced, however “source Carl Moyle” [who he?]
https://www.paimages.co.uk/image-details/2.23305367Parents Tom [sic] [1928-1991] and Catherine Marie Ainsworth [nee Lawler, d 2012] brother of Jacquline – Thomas G Ainsworth b 1961.
No mention of any of them in news reports. More dead ends. These may be the sibling’s children having married Deborah E Abbott in Rochdale in 1981 They stayed local but Thomas has drifted off…
https://www.192.com/atoz/people/ainsworth/deborah/ol11/343299897/
https://www.facebook.com/debbie.ainsworth.16
this is Deborah, ex-sister in law of the “dead” stewardess, friends with her children, whose auntie “died” , Stacey James and Dean, now married to a Thai woman.
I guess they may be all out of the loop.Probate – Jacqueline Mary Urbanski of 2 Bower Avenue, Wardle, Rochdale, died August 22 1985 Administration 15 November 1985
Or what about this “deceased” pair, possibly relocated, also from Sheffield
Rita LAWRENCE, of Sheffield b 1947 [nee Collins, spouse John W Lawrence]
Joanne Louise LAWRENCE, age 15, of Sheffieldsibling John Christopher Lawrence, b 1972 survived, along with dad John W Lawrence. where did they go to?
Here’s a nice summary for the 30th anniversary, with a Yorkshire perspective
https://www.thestar.co.uk/news/sheffield-families-still-waiting-for-apology-over-manchester-air-disaster-on-30th-anniversary-of-tragedy-1-7422959Boy off with dad, girl off with mum perhaps….
Probate – Joanne Louise Lawrence, 117 Lindley Lane, Sheffield. Died August 22 1985, administration December 18 1985
Insights One of those from Sheffield who died was 18-year-old Sarah Beckett. Her father William, who helped with wife Linda to found an air safety campaign group in the wake of the tragedy, said today: “They [Manchester airport or British Airways, which operated Airtours] have got no excuse not to apologise.
Survivors and the relatives of those who died eventually successfully sued US aircraft engine manufacturer Pratt & Whitney.
[August 22 2015 hoax management]Now, here’s the funny thing, according to the Times newspaper, August 22 1985, the list of survivors does not include any people called Beckett! With whom was she travelling?
And unusually for an 18 year old, there was probabe
Sarah Beckett 274 Eccleshall Road South, Sheffield. died August 22 1985 Administration August 4 1986But….it get weirder [as in the Bethnal Green wartime “disaster”], children are the subject of probate…
Susan Pamela Beal of Whitegates, Doveston Road, Sale died August 22 1985
administration October 10 1985 Age 16, remember.And we even have a 9 year old girl being the subject of probate…
Rebecca Michelle Bates also Harrison ** 21 Nichols Way Linton Park Wetherby died August 22 1985 administration October 10 1985 Estate £60,000!!!!! Aged 9 years !!!
aka a nice little relocation lump sum.
One of the alleged survivors according to The Times was Catherine Harrison [sic] of the same address.** There is no birth for a Rebecca Michelle Bates,but only for a Catherine Michelle Harrison in Newcastle, correctly in 1976 [Q2] the only child of Kathryn [sic] Inness b 1951 and Eric M Harrison.. who may be
https://beta.companieshouse.gov.uk/officers/wDyRIBKdX4dLoYu1kpAyLzZp8Bo/appointments
And here’s the confirmiation – a marriage in Leeds [near Wetherby] in 1985
Eric E Bates with Kathryn Harrison.
Hmmmm
So that would be Eric Ernest Bates, Quantity Surveyor of the same address, b Newcastle 1944
http://www.checkcompany.co.uk/director/2964433/ERIC-ERNEST-BATES
https://beta.companieshouse.gov.uk/company/03884430/officers
previous marriage to Kathleen L Short in 1968, Newcastle.And have we any 22 month old babies beingthe subject of probate? Indeed we have!!
Lisa Barker of 12 Harvest Bank, Hyde Heath *** Amersham, Bucks died 22 August 1985 Administration 1 September 1985!*** the very same village in which top company executive Richard Cousins, the “victim” of the seaplane “crash” in Sydney [q.v.] at the end of 2017, had a more luxurious home!! A dangerous place to live!
And Steven Allmark’s sendoff – for an 11 year old boy…
not exceeding £40,000
of 13 Jerome Gardens, Sutton, St Helens,died 22 August 1985, administration December 16 1985In reply to: Towering Inferno London June 13 2017
Well, fancy that – we have a staged tower block fire in Dunmurry, Belfast, Northern Ireland and the next morning, further “confirmation” that 71 people “died” in Grenfell Tower.
The Belfast event is from the same psy-op handbook as the Shepherds Bush and Bethnal Green fires –
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-42001447
they believed the fire was “accidental” and that the man “was making toast at the time”.
Sure!
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-42004752
The fire service rescued a man from the ninth-floor flat in which the fire broke out.No exploding fridge this time. Perhaps an exploding toaster..
It seems like the authorities were having trouble getting more than 71 deaths extracted from the Grenfell narrative.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/11/16/final-grenfell-tower-fire-death-toll-put-70-plus-stillborn-baby/http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-42008279
Seventy one victims of the Grenfell Tower fire have been formally identified and police believe that all those who died have now been recovered.
The number of victims includes baby Logan Gomes, who was stillborn in hospital on 14 June, the day the 24-storey blaze broke out.
The identities of the last two bodies found in the west London block were confirmed by the coroner on Tuesday.“Specialist teams working inside Grenfell Tower and the mortuary have pushed the boundaries of what was scientifically possible to identify people.
sure….
Commander Cundy told BBC News: “There was only one way in and out of the tower and [CCTV] footage shows 223 people came out and survived.”
He said not all 223 people were residents, some were visitors, and some residents were not in the tower at the time.
While the final stage of the search operation is not expected to conclude until early December, the Met said in a statement: “Based on all the work carried out so far and the expert advice, it is highly unlikely there is anyone who remains inside Grenfell Tower”.
Specially trained officers from the Met, City of London Police and British Transport Police have been involved in the search and recovery operation, thoroughly searching every single flat on every single floor.
Officers have examined 15.5 tonnes of debris on each floor, helped by forensic anthropologists, archaeologists and forensic dentists or odontologists.specially trained in hoaxing… CCTV footage??? Oddly, media footage shows nobody emerging from the tower apart from one or two well known actors from the script pretending to be having breathing difficulties.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/11/16/final-grenfell-tower-fire-death-toll-put-70-plus-stillborn-baby/
Earlier this month, serial fraudster Anh Nhu Nguyen, 52, admitted two counts of fraud after claiming his wife and son died in the blaze, to pocket £12,500 intended to help victims.
Another actor playing his small part role, along with the African actor who allegedly took photos of non-corpses, in the much bigger deception who was fingered earlier in the thread.In reply to: Towering Inferno London June 13 2017
From the last published KCTMO board minutes from November 2016 [usually bi-monthly…] we read about the Shepherds Bush fire caused, allegedly, not by a refrigerator but by a “faulty” Indesit tumble drier
Click to access 164740_board_meeting_-_24_meeting_2016.pdf
paras 8.3/4
8.3 Following the fire in a block of flats in Shepherd Bush caused by a faulty tumble dryer, it was asked if residents had been warned about these tumble dryers. An article had gone in the Link detailing the details of the particular dryers. This would also be followed up
through work with the RAs and Compacts to spread the information.
8.4 The London Fire Brigade had asked for the names and addresses of all the residents so they could speak to them about why they called the Fire Brigade, which was contrary to the ‘stay put’ policy operated. The RBKC had been informed at all stages of this investigation as well as their solicitors. No timeline had been made available from the
London Fire Brigade as to when the report would be completed.
looks rather like the Bethnal Green fire of yesterday.I’m not clear why the LFB wouldn’t want residents to call 999
The incident occurred on August 19 2016
100 families evacuated…London Fire Brigade said they believed a faulty Indesit dryer was the cause of the August 19 blaze, following a “painstaking” investigation.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/12/04/faulty-tumble-dryers-caused-huge-tower-block-fire-still-putting/
suspicious?
video
http://www.standard.co.uk/news/london/tumble-dryer-warning-issued-after-huge-blaze-in-shepherds-bush-tower-block-a3330901.html
Over 100 families were evacuated from Shepherds Court when the fire broke out in a seventh floor flat on August 19.READ MORE
Huge blaze breaks out in tower block in Shepherd’s Bush
Despite the owner quickly unplugging the machine, the blaze caught hold and it took 120 firefighters to put it out. No-one was injured.
A much higher proportion of these flats were leasehold postcodes W12 8PN and 8PW
The blaze engulfed part of the 18-storey high rise block and took 120 firefighters to bring under control. No on was injured.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-37571523I don’t see images of “engulfing”
I can’t help but feel that the two events are connected.
https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2016/aug/19/fire-crews-tackle-blaze-at-shepherds-bush-tower-block-londonMore than 100 firefighters from across west London extinguished a huge blaze in the tower block in Shepherd’s Bush that had engulfed parts of the seventh, eighth and ninth floors.
Videos posted on social media on Friday afternoon showed smoke billowing around Shepherds Court, near Shepherd’s Bush Green.
London Fire Brigade (LFB) said 20 fire engines and 120 firefighters were sent to tackle the blaze at 3.44pm, and that it was under control by 5.30pm. Hundreds of residents were evacuated, many to a nearby community hall that is acting as a base for residents.
One woman was treated for smoke inhalation and shock but the LFB said there were no other reports of injuries or unaccounted people.
Station manager Paul Hobbs who was at the scene, said: “The fire spread from the seventh floor via the outside of the building. Crews wearing breathing apparatus used jets to extinguish the fire on each floor of the building. They worked quickly in difficult conditions to tackle the fire.”
Daytime, of course.
Right on cue, the Bethnal Green, East London low-rise, non-tower block fire, yesterday June 24 2017 [videos]
http://www.dailystar.co.uk/news/latest-news/624886/bethnal-green-road-fire-tower-block-flats-video-grenfell-cladding-casualtiesIn reply to: War Stories (Please share yours here)
I buried some research on the suspicious mass fatality event at Bethnal Green underground station on the General Sports Thread
http://fakeologist.com/forums/search/bethnal+green/
because it seemed to have been a precursor of later sports stadium mass fatality exercises.
There are more examples of World War II bombing fakery in the V1/V2 rocket thread.Here’s an example of a VERY suspicious “bombing” to keep Londoners scared, a parachute bomb allegedly dropped on one of the exclusive areas of Belgravia, SW1.
The starting point was this unbelievable piece of “misfortune” I came across by accident – [box on page 34]
At the start of World War II, the Ministry of Health Path.Lab in Endell Street, Covent Garden became the Emergency Public Health Laboratory Service
Two very senior members of that branch reportedly died together in February [actually April] 1941.William McDonald Scott, aged 57, according to his will, died on 17 April 1941 at 75 Eccleston Square SW1 [also given of 31 Woodstock Road, Oxford] Probate to Alice Clothilda Mollard Scott £8009 9s 1d who died aged 84 in 1970 while living at 96 Millway, Mill Hill NW7.
His esteemed colleague Frederick Griffith aged 62 also of 75 Eccleston Square had a more curious entry – “believed to have died on 10 or 17 April.
Administration, £9037 13s 1d, to Anna Nellie Griffith who died aged 85 in 1974 while living at 15 Bedhampton Road, Havant. Neither remarried.There are two pages to show the singularity of the destruction
http://www.thelondonmagazine.co.uk/interiors-gardens/celebrity-homes/a-place-in-history-75-eccleston-square.html
The agreeable home of Humbert Wolfe, poet, critic and civil servant, who died in 1940 aged 55.http://www.westendatwar.org.uk/page_id__243.aspx
At around 12.05am on 17 April 1941 a parachute mine hit and destroyed 75 Eccleston Square SW1. The adjoining Guildhouse on Belgrave Road was severely damaged. The Guildhouse, built in 1848 as the Eccleston Square Congregational Church and converted into an ecumenical centre in 1921, was being used as a refugee and homeless reception post.
Followed by the familiar drill reporting of ambulances, bodies found etc etc, and images of the all important paperwork.
City of Westminster ARP reports later confirmed a final total of five people killed in the Guildhouse incident.
The Guildhouse site was redeveloped in 1958. Today it houses government and charity offices at 11 Belgrave Road.I wonder who the other three were among the “deaths”.
Searching among close entries in the register I come across Guy Ernest Bernard Bergonzi of 304 Howard House Dolphin Square [an development closely associated with the secret services] who also died April 17 aged 45 but in the bomb shelter at Hawkins House, Dolphin Square. There is no reported bombing of Dolphin Square
http://www.westendatwar.org.uk/page_id__196.aspx
although Dolphin Square suffered a suspiciously high degree of bombing at earlier times in 1940
In all, Dolphin Square suffered over a dozen separate bombing incidents during the Blitz and twelve fatalities. Duncan, Beatty, Hawkins, Frobisher, Rayleigh, Drake and Grenville Houses were amongst the worst damaged.
Amazing!In reply to: A GENERAL SPORTS THREAD
Good call on Muamba, Tom. And as you say, everyone has a safe pair of hands [except the goalkeepers when required….]
Muamba looks quite frisky at 0.41
and we all love a hero don’t we: Dr Andrew Deaner
Dr Deaner, who ran on from Tottenham’s East Stand during Saturday’s match, had stressed that Muamba must go straight to the London Chest Hospital in Bethnal Green, where he works. He accompanied the Bolton midfielder in the ambulanceBolton chairman Phil Gartside said: “The staff at the London Chest Hospital have been nothing short of exceptional and I would like to thank them all at this ongoing critical time. The support from Tottenham and our own fans was fantastic at the game, unbelievable.”
http://www.standard.co.uk/news/uk/fans-praise-hero-doctor-who-rushed-on-pitch-to-save-muamba-7577708.htmlAs a private patient?
Andrew Deaner ?@DocDeaner Jun 29
If like me you vote labour but are unhappy with @jeremycorbyn it’s time to join @UKLabour and have your say! I favour @YvetteCooperMPFit doc…
Andrew Deaner ?@DocDeaner
158km into another @AudaxUK Welsh adventure. 450 to go by 10pm tomorrow..
5:38 am – 14 May 2016 [1:38 PM BST]
at 14 May 2016
600km 06:00 from Chepstow Bryan Chapman Memorial (Classic)
BRM AA7.5 [7500m] £32.00
Must have a strong heart. No wonder consultant doctors don’t like working weekends, it interferes with their cycling and football watching.In reply to: Italy Earth Quake Machine (TM)
Player of the term: Year 7 – Cricket (April – July 2016) – Luca Grinceri
Year 9 – Cricket (April – July 2016) –Jack Henniker-Gotley— WetherbySeniorSport (@WetherbySSports) July 1, 2016
WetherbySeniorSport ?@WetherbySSports
Player of the term: Year 7 – Cricket (April – July 2016) – Luca Grinceri
Year 9 – Cricket (April – July 2016) –Jack Henniker-Gotley
8:48 am – 1 Jul 2016 [5:48 PM CEST]
The fees for the 2015-2016 academic year are £6900 per term.
No comment from Nick,the headmaster there [vide infra]
https://twitter.com/WetherbyNickI ought to add,the Bonometti tweet ^^ is a translation of the original Italian
#Terremoto così lontano e così vicino. Carissimi amici partiti da Londra a passare le vacanze in Abruzzo. Sepolti sotto le macerie a Sommati. Due famiglie che non saranno mai più le stesse. Prego per i due ragazzi che sono scampati. Hanno perso la mamma, il papà, amici. Prego per tutti, vittime e sopravvissuti cercando di rendermi utileMaria H-G nee Taliani worked in an arts project in Bethnal Green, East London
http://www.childrenandarts.org.uk/maria-henniker-gotley/
August 26th, 2016
We are sad to confirm that our beloved colleague, Maria, tragically died in the Italian earthquake on Wednesday.
Maria worked as our Finance Manager throughout the past 8 and a half years. She was totally dedicated, meticulous and professional and worked tirelessly to support the work of the charity. Our work in helping disadvantaged children to engage with the arts is something she passionately believed in and her determination to see the charity’s work continue and grow was second to none.
The whole Children & the Arts team is shocked and saddened by the news of her death, and that of her husband Will, who was also a staunch supporter of our work. We have lost a valued colleague, of course, but, above all, two very dear friends.i am not sure how the project can “confirm” anything, since it originated with that safe pair of hands, the UK Foreign & Commonwealth OFfice.
Also reportedly killed was Jack’s friend Marcos Burnett
Marcos’s parents, Anne-Louise and Simon Burnett, were badly injured in the quake. The family are believed to be from Bayswater in London.
“The husband has a broken leg and the wife has a broken nose with other injuries to her face,” a hospital official told The Telegraph.
Both are being treated in the town of Rieti, about 50 miles from the epicentre of the earthquake. The Burnetts have a daughter ** who survived the quake without injury, it is understood.“Maria’s father, a UK-based chef, was from Sommati. He worked all his life in the UK [address in Basingstoke] but returned to buy the villa with his children several years ago.
“They did splendid things in this villa, typically English, with a lovely garden, a lovely green lawn, really beautiful; They would come back every holiday with friends and family.“Maria’s sister Giulia was staying in Rieti at the time. She came afterwards and took her sisters’ children into her care.”
Neighbours rushed to the scene when they heard screams for help in English coming from under the rubble coming from Simon and Anna Louise Burnett, asking to be freed and trying to speak to their trapped children.
The Foreign Office has sent three extra consular officials to the region to assist the British families.
Nick Barker, headmaster at Wetherby Senior School in Marylebone, said the school was “bereft” at the loss of Marcos.
“Marcos attended all three Wetherby schools and was always utterly charming, personable and engaging company”, he said……
…a neighbour told the Daily Telegraph how he rushed out in the middle of the night to attempt to rescue people trapped under the rubble using the light from his mobile phone.
Bruno Formicola, 50, said he “heard cries for help in English from underneath” and managed to rescue two teenagers from the rubble.[an anonymous female neighbour said] the couple had bought the house when he [Maria’s father] became ill.
He died in March 2012 – http://announcements.telegraph.co.uk/deaths/147436/taliani-sante
Sister Giulia Taliani another resident of Stockwell.[events management]
https://uk.linkedin.com/in/giulia-taliani-24239657
https://beta.companieshouse.gov.uk/company/08491725/officersFinally the creative writing bit, not unexpectedly
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3762635/British-couple-victims-Italian-earthquake-lying-bed-s.html
August 28 2016
The British couple killed during the Italian earthquake were found lying in bed in each other’s arms, friends have revealed.
~Friends again…
Barbara Digiacomo, 43 only “heard it” – and she’s a friend. Perhaps revealed by a friend of a friend?… they must have been sleeping deeply.’
‘They were hugging each other in the bed. For me they just heard a big bang (and that was it),’ she added.
If that’s how the script goes, I can’t argue with it. And they the bad luck story from an insider…Diana Grigore, 32, who helped the family around the house, had two days before the earthquake made up the bedrooms for the guests due to join the Henniker-Gotleys.
She told of how Marcos had decided to swap rooms at the last minute and would otherwise have been sleeping on the top floor – where the only survivors had been sleeping.When Mrs Grigore asked Jack if he was ok, he said: ‘If my mum is not ok, I’m not ok.’
cool boy in an earthquake[Angelo] Bonanni said: ‘Jack helped tell them where everyone was sleeping. He explained the layout of the house to them, telling them how many people were in the house.’
very very cool
[ Davide Perrone, 26], added…’The kids came out very quickly and were covered in dust. They wanted to get their parents out and were really worried.’
The children returned to their home in London last week, accompanied by their aunt Giulia. Earlier, a family friend Roberto Casale had driven them to Rome to meet embassy officials.
Speaking yesterday from the village of Sommati, Mr Casale told of how the children had been silent in the car.
He said: ‘I tried to distract them by talking about other things just to keep their minds of what happened.
‘They were so sad – I can’t believe this has happened. The day before everyone was happy and laughing and enjoying themselves in the pool.
‘They spent the night in a hotel then left for London they stopped by my house in Rome and the news was on with the earthquake but they looked away, it was too upsetting for them.’
‘Only last week were talking about going over there to stay with them at Christmas or them coming here,’ he added.
This week, both families were due to return to Britain for the children to start school.** The Burnetts’ daugher, Adriana, 12, appears in one version of the Telegraph story, but is later written out
http://www.pressreader.com/uk/the-daily-telegraph/20160827/282604557270527Hmmmm
In reply to: BBC Match of the Day – what's all this then?
The Daily Mail duly reported on Bethnal Green in 2008
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-521490/The-Bethnal-Green-Tube-tragedy-saw-173-people-crushed-death–making-wars-worst-civilian-disaster-But-censored-history.htmlWhy did this story take so long to emerge? It is unfathomable.
in seconds, there were more deaths on one small stairwell than at the 1989 Hillsborough stadium tragedy or the 1966 catastrophe at Aberfan.[q.q.v]
… at street level, three buses had just screeched to a halt, disgorging yet more people wanting shelter. Some found themselves treading on to a floor of human bodies.
This was a staircase.
One or two near the bottom were still alive. But most of the faces, they were all purple and mauve.”
There were very few injured people. People were either suffocated or they walked away relatively unscathed.
“I do not think I saw a single case of a fractured ribs, which is extraordinary,” the police surgeon told the coroner’s inquest.
Ivy Brind, then 25, was one of a handful with lasting physical injuries – a partially-paralysed face. What really troubled her for the rest of her life, though, were the sounds of that night and the memory of her tiny nephew, Barry, who died in her arms
extraordinary indeed.
A year later, the Bethnal Green Corporation was successfully sued for negligence by Mrs Anne Baker, who lost her husband and 14-year-old daughter (she received £950 compensation for the loss of her husband and £250 for her daughter).
Similar awards were later paid out to all the bereaved families. The Mayor of Bethnal Green and her husband fled the area, broken and vilified
This is wrong – Mrs Baker receive £1,550 plus costs for her losses and injuries [contemporary reporting] equivalent to £60,000 today. [awarded July 18 1944] by Mr Justice Singleton
This is what was reported at the time in the press:The real cause of the tragedy wasthe angerous condition of the steps.There were also other matters which contributed, for example the very poor lighting and the lack o a handrail in the centre. Another factor which probably added to the trouble was that there was no one on duty on the steps or entrance and those entering did not know what had taken place.
How can a mayor be responsible for that? As we see, at least one member of the council did not need to “flee”.
The witness produced to say an old woman had fallen was <Mrs Elisa Jones
which the judge conveniently accepted. Another witness, a Mrs Minns was produced to say she caught her heel in the last step but one [and somehow survived]
All wrapped up nicely. On thing I notice, awards were made in 1944 to Home Guard members by the next mayor, A.E.McAuliffe, JP, for their devotion to duty….sounds familiar. Except they don’t seem to have been stopping people going down the steps. Who should have received one of the awards but Private W.E.Turpin of “Signals”, son of Bethnal Green councillor Albert Edwin Turpin, artist and window clearer….the whole affair was secret until these awards “emerged”.
Cllr Turpin himself became mayor in 1947
http://london.wikia.com/wiki/List_of_Mayors_of_Bethnal_Green
Mr Bridger had been mayor twice in 1937-9.
Turpin sketchingIf you want another secretive and really weird mass wartime casualty, try this one
http://laituk.org/B-24%2042-50291.htmIn reply to: BBC Match of the Day – what's all this then?
Check the middle video above. From about 5:20 witness Joan Keeper describing the bodies allegedly laid out in the street.
“…they’d been squashed – and I can’t say – it was all – their insides hanging out – and my dad got hold of me and covered my eyes…..”
really?
Her real name is Henrietta Keeper, a local ballad singer; in this 2012 article [some great photos] there is no mention whatsoever of the 1943 incident.
The family history doesn’t quite check out so I suspect the above link does not accurately describe the family. Here’s some Cockney heritage with Henrietta
My friend, Doris said, “Me Mum’s worried about me, she’s down the tube, because the warning’s gone. Will you come with me down the tube?” So I linked my arm in my Mum’s and said, “No, I love my Mum and I want to stay here,” but she said “Oh come on.” She kept on and on, and I got fed up with it. All of a sudden, I thought, “All right, OK.” I was really going to go with her. I took two steps, and then I went back and put my arm into my Mum’s, and I said, “No, I don’t want to go. You go down there.” Everyone was racing to the tube, the police were all around, the traffic had stopped and big red buses were all lined up the length of the Bethnal Green Rd. So Doris went and there was a tube accident, one hundred and seventy-three people died, they all fell downstairs on top of each other and got suffocated – and I was saved, and I’m so glad I didn’t go.
no mention of seeing all the bodies, insides hanging out or otherwise.
CHIT CHAT – Three Gracious Ladies, Mavis Bullwinkle, Henrietta Keeper & Joan Rose
In reply to: BBC Match of the Day – what's all this then?
I just want to expand on Bethnal Green for a moment because of the similarties with other football disasters of the 80s.
There are several videos of witness Alf Morris, then aged 13, talking along with Peter Perryment and Bob Saxon…..
they were laying all the bodies out along the pavement – yet it was kept secret? “threw water on them, hoping to revive them…” [Dr Joan Martin, interviewed then aged 26 at the local Children’s hospital – b. circa 1917] 62 were children. Peter, b 1930 says his sister, aged 17 “died standing in front of me” [that would be Iris M Perryment]
Where were the bodies buried? The victims are listed here and following pages
http://www.stairwaytoheavenmemorial.org/gpage2.htmlAnother video or two..
The strange case of litigation between one victim’s wife an Bethnal Green council has been alluded to. Here’s a strange story:
http://www.stairwaytoheavenmemorial.org/EileenBridger.htmlEileen Bridger, nee Dyson
I was the telephone operator at Bethnal Green Town Hall during the war…On the night of 3 March 1943, I was on control duty in the Town Hall. This meant we responded to emergencies by sending out ambulances and fire engines.. Gradually stories started to come in that men who had been standing at the top of the steps having a cigarette, shouted that there was an air raid, and people had panicked and started to rush down the steps.My father in law Jim Bridger was a warden down inside the Tube Station, and from what he experienced that night he had a nervous breakdown.
I remember that the bodies were laid out in the street waiting for ambulances to come. It was a dreadful night for everybody involved.
My mother in law, Margaret Bridger, was the mayor of Bethnal Green at the time of the disaster. Of course there was an enquiry and she had to make a report. The enquiry (I believe) pointed to the council’s lack of care in not putting a handrail down the centre of the staircase, and of course as Mayor, Mrs Bridger had to accept ultimate responsibility for the council’s actions. This coupled with her husband’s breakdown led to the Bridger family leaving Bethnal Green. In any case their house had been bombed, and they had had to sleep in the basement of the Town Hall, with the rest of us who were on night duty.
Hmmmm. Would a star handrail really have prevented anything?
But since this is a football thread, here is the 2014 charity match to raise funds for the memorial to the 173.
Notes:
Percival James Bridger [b. Midhurst Sussex district 1897] married Margarette Sarah Littlehales,[b.1896] in Hanwell, West London in 1917, d. 1981 Birkenhead, Merseyside and Liverpool 1961 respectively. That’s a long way from Bethnal Green.In reply to: BBC Match of the Day – what's all this then?
Here’s one I have meant to have a look at ….173 people dead…very very hush hush…March 3 1943
here it comes…
It was the Hillsborough of its day.😉
One to mull over. There was ONE test court case to emerge from it. Yes, just one which was successful! Mrs Annie Baker was awarded GBP1,550 plus costs for the death of her husband [1,200] £250 for the less of her daughter Minnie Amelia aged 14 and £100 for the her own injuries. The court case, lasting six days, was held in camera claiming against the council.
There is a big problem already – she only had two sons according to birth records, born 1930 and 1935. She was married in 1928.
There was a 14 year old born called Minnie Amelia Baker to another mother in Stepney in 1928.
Here’s a survivor
He didn’t tell his family about it, wife and children until….2007!
What I want to know is why there was not a barrage of payout claims for injuries, loss of family members…that must have run into the several hundreds. Hundreds of thousands of pounds at wartime prices. HmmmmMore than 60 needed hospital treatment [that’s £100 a go compensation, precedent set, isn’t it? Quite a tidy sum then]
http://www.express.co.uk/expressyourself/236947/Bethnal-Green-Tube-disaster-Winston-Churchill-covered-up-Britain-s-worst-civilian-disasteStaff from the University of East London interviewed over 20 survivors, witnesses and family members to reconstruct the terrible events to give a voice to its victims.
The scale of this appalling tragedy was unprecedented it was the worst civilian disaster in modern British history (not caused by enemy action). There were 173 deaths, 62 of whom were children. The death toll was greater than the 1989 Hillsborough stadium tragedy and the 1966 disaster at Aberfan.
http://www.raphael-samuel.org.uk/bethnal-green-disaster-memorial-project-0
The lucky survivor story:
Babette Clarke was 11 when she headed to the shelter in 1943. She said a major raid had been expected.
Missing the bus probably saved her life, she said, because she would have been among the first to enter the shelter and be crushed otherwise
In reply to: BBC Match of the Day – what's all this then?
Xilef, no way is the very interesting and worthy of exploration: Bethnal Green Tube crush related to football. Haha. (your yellow man was a genius spot, if you ask me).
Call me a pedant, but ”I won’t have it!”
You know the drill captain 😀The thing is – valued research partner – you’ve contributed a lot to this football thread and I’d like to think your work is presented in an order that does it justice.
All that said, all these things are informative of each other, I’m sure we’d agree. The small-world. The Anfield Crematorium burials of a key Policeman from Bethnal Green.
——————
tom, have you ever heard of joe meek?
I like the Adidas Telstar observation. I’ll have to look at the ball.
Then number one smash promotional record Telstar.
These popular culture references. Very powerful.
We definitely need a rock’n’roll thread.
DalTampra
In reply to: BBC Match of the Day – what's all this then?
Since we started off with several big crushes, I think it’s time to have a look at this one..
http://www.bbc.co.uk/history/ww2peopleswar/stories/09/a795909.shtmlSomeone tripped on the stairs causing many others to fall. 300 people were crushed into the stairwell within a few seconds, 173 of them died and over 90 were injured. The worst civilian disaster of the 2nd World War.
Bethnal Green Council had written to the government asking for permission to alter the station entrance and make it safer if a lot of people wanted to use it. The Government department refused and the Borough Engineer wrote a stronger worded letter explaining that the entrance and stairway needed several measures to make them safer. Again the government refused permission. The Council’s borough engineer wrote a third time to plead for permission to alter the entrance, but was once more refused.
The day after the disaster all these measures sought by the Council were put in place
++++
Some sources put the figure at 178, but 173 is the figure given on a plaque at the station and is also the figure given in the government inquiry, so that is the figure used here.PC Thomas Penn, who was escorting his pregnant wife to the shelter, arrived on the scene as the disaster was unfolding. To assess the scale of the event he crawled over the massed bodies to the bottom of the 19 steps and found 200 people in a space the size of a small room. PC Penn climbed out again and sent a message for help, before returning down the steps to help extricate people from the tangle of limbs and torsos.
…the details of an inquiry by Mr Laurence Dunne were kept ‘under Lock and Key’ due to security considerations
Now, we’re almost back full circle…
Name: Thomas Penn
Born: October 11, 1914 Liverpool, England
Died: in May, 1983 Liverpool, EnglandBorn 49 Mark Street, Liverpool.
Married St James-the-Less, Bethnal Green, London.
Occ Police Constable.
Buried Anfield Crematorium, Liverpool.In reply to: The 1988 Clapham Rail crash
The [Hidden] report identifies 11 signal engineers and managers who, it says, must share the blame for the disaster…..[who] had made errors some worse and more numerous than others,but, the judge declared: “No one is put in the dock”. The most senior was Mr Clifford Hale,”captain of the ship” in BR’s Southern Region signals department until the day before the disaster,who announced his resignation minutes after the report became public…..Senior signal technician Mr Brian Hemingway was named as the man responsible for the wiring errors…..in his work in the Clapham Junction A relay room. “He was a man who was methodical in his practices, whether good or bad, and among the bad were his habits of failing to shorten wires and in particular to cut off eyes and failing to secure such wires by tying them back out of harm’s way”
http://news.google.com/newspapers?nid=2507&dat=19891108&id=kkVAAAAAIBAJ&sjid=YFkMAAAAIBAJ&pg=2795,2413907
So, Hemingway was very methodical about not doing the job properly as, one imagines he was trained to do. Allegedly.This is too absurd for words.
After the report was released, Clifford Hale resigned as quality manager for the British Railways Board. He was the regional signaling engineer at the time of the accident.
Hidden’s report said Hale made the ”dangerous assumption” that once a problem was identified, it would be fixed. ”The problem about Mr. Hale’s management was that it demonstrated the lack of communication which pervaded the signals and telecommunications department,” the report said.
So that clears up the coincidence – Mr Hale was signals manager until Sunday, then the morning of the crash, he was suddenly the quality manager for what appears to be the whole of the BRB, with final salary pension to match no doubt.
This would seem to be the same Cliff Hale who was IRSE president in 1987. “Institute of Railway Signal Engineers” – too much of a coincidence.
Wife: Margaret who named a diesel locomotive at Fort William in 1987.
http://www.railstaff.co.uk/2012/02/14/signal-success-for-heritage-supporters/There’s an interesting BBC report from a firefighter.Clifford Thompson from Bethnal Green station [miles away] years later here:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-25331840there were dozens of emergency service vehicles and also TV crews.
It was a surreal sight, like a massive film set. [of course!]
I walked down the steep embankment – at the bottom was a ledge with a vertical drop about 15ft (4.5m) into the cutting – and saw the jumbled mess of iron and steel.
Ladders and ropes were used to help us get down there.
I played a very small part in the rescue operation: one of about 250 firefighters who attended the incident….we worked with quiet determination to make sure that the final bodies were recovered with as much dignity as possible
The new president (2013) of the IRSE is a Mr Cliff Weedonwho wrote:
I am also greatly indebted to another well known IRSE Past President Cliff Hale who was Chief S&T Engineer on the Southern Region of British Rail in the period when I completed my training and, as well as guiding me through his regular helpful interviews, had sufficient faith in me to grant leave of absence for 3 years to undertake a research project in Cambridge and Bath Universities on track to train data transmission using audio frequency track circuits. The ‘proper’ digital
coding of track circuits that we prototyped then in 1985 to 1988 is finally coming into production, albeit with more advanced coding techniques. We will be having a paper on the recent developments during the next session which I hope will be of interest to those who believe the future retains a place for continuous track based train detection.No mention of Mr Hale’s deficiencies as identified by Hidden there, nor of the Clapham event.
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