March 28, 2014 at 11:32 pm #8000dirtbag71Participant
Played golf last week with a friend of mine who was a stock broker in NYC during the mayhem. He was a bucket brigade volunteer and was on-site a few days after helping. He was there for 2 weeks and saw body parts.. arms, legs, heads you name it. if no one died on 911, what was he looking at? I know this guy very well, he;s not making this up. People died on 911, that is a FACT. The rest of the story is open to debate, but to say “nobody” died on 911 is a joke. How do you fake body parts in rubble?March 29, 2014 at 11:13 am #8002Tom DalpraParticipant
The only thing I can think of, is dog bones and ketchup.
How they did the multiple heads your stock-broker, golf partner, picked up in his bucket, is open to question. I think those are most likely heads of people who had actually lost them, at some point, in say, a car or industrial accident. They could have saved these severed heads from around the country and had them on ice ready for the day, then thrown them in the pile when no one was looking.
Either that, or you should perhaps start questioning exactly how many shots ‘head-in-a-bucket-boy’ is taking to get out of the rough.
The idea of simulated victims is central to understanding 9/11 and all the rest of the fakery that’s talked about on this forum.
That it’s ‘not up for debate’ is simply the reason that it’s not talked about more and key to understanding the ultimately banal nature of these Big Lies.
I can imagine shady groups of bucket-boys, ‘finding’ what were rather unpleasantly called ”Hot Pockets of dead bodies’ and rapidly and neatly fencing them off, but I can’t believe any random volunteer saw heads, ears, elbows, knees and toes, knees and toes. ‘You name it’, I’ll sing it.
If this golfing friend is real, may I suggest you wait until the 18th green as he’s poised with a six foot putt for the match, look him in the eye, and say:
‘You didn’t really see severed heads at ground zero did you?’
It should work because he must be lying.
DalTampraMarch 30, 2014 at 6:34 am #8030
I am shocked: how very irresponsible for FEMA (or whoever was managing the post-collapse clean-up) to invite stockbrokers to volunteer on top of the rubble at Ground Zero. What if one / or several of them got hurt? Wouldn’t Wall Street /the US economy take a crippling blow?
Besides, stockbrokers are notorious for spreading deceit and lies – it’s just a natural part of their job. So if a stockbroker, say, assured me that he’d been playing golf with my father’s severed head around the Ground Zero rubble, I’d think twice before buying his word for it. Yes, call me skeptical – but that’s just the way I am.
“The stockbrokers’ Ground Zero volunteer bucket brigade”. Priceless! 😀March 31, 2014 at 7:25 pm #8063khammadParticipant
If this had been a real human parts bucket brigade story, the tellable memory would have been of the stench of the dead, not merely the pieces. I have a dead body story myself and I ALWAYS recall the smell, first and foremost.
Caution: Non-Sequitor approaching.
Tom and Simon,
Thank you for your sanity and humor. I am at the point where these brazen liars make my blood boil as the lies are so obvious: either from the stock broker and/or his buddy. Certainly, humor is the better route. You both deliver it quite successfully.
K HamApril 1, 2014 at 5:40 am #8074abKeymaster
The rest of the story is open to debate, but to say “nobody” died on 911 is a joke
I’m glad you’ve made the pronouncement that the rest of the story is up for debate, but this section is sacred. From where did you get this holy decree?
I suggest you look into the vicsim section of cluesforum.info. They have shown over and over how all of the vicsims were created using (crude by 2014 standards) varying methods, including photoslop and morphing software. They have shown the production line methods of creating entities, including names and storylines. Vicsim report: http://www.septemberclues.info/vicsims.htm
Thank you for reminding me to remind other doubters of the very powerful September Clues tour guide, a must read for any future fakeologists.
Also thanks to Simon and Tom for catching this post. I’ve moved to it the derailing room so others who are confused can find it in its rightful place, and installed a routine to keep me on top of this bustling forum.June 3, 2014 at 10:52 am #9737
The idea of simulated victims is central to understanding 9/11 and all the rest of the fakery that’s talked about on this forum.
Simulated victims needs qualifying – sim people or sim deaths. I have researched several groups of people at WTC. They all check out with births, often schools,careers, the people who worked with them at various stages of their careers check out as genuine. Yet we arrive at their deaths, surrounded by all the laughable lucky event miss stories, fake tears, totally unbelievable escape stories and, most of all, the missing crowds of escapees.
It would take a long time to go through the list of Cantor Fitzgerald employees to check them all out.
Fake deaths is an area which needs exploring. If it can be done on a small scale, it can, with resources and budgets, be scaled up. One wonders why so many of those available photos of victims are so poor, often the only one anywhere, occasionally there being no photo at all! Perhaps to make identification in a new life more difficult?
The only other explanation is that these people were all lured to the twin towers, and locked up sacrificially. I don’t see that as likely.
Evidence of deaths in the form of certificates, post-mortems and inquests, or probate is less than worthless.
There may be vicsims but I haven’t found any yet.June 3, 2014 at 1:52 pm #9738
Dear xileffilex, you wrote:
“It would take a long time to go through the list of Cantor Fitzgerald employees to check them all out.”
Well, you might like to take it step by step. You could start by checking out and verifying these 60 “Cantor twins” – who all supposedly perished on 9/11 :
“THE CANTOR TWINS”
Yes, it takes a long time researching these people.Time and patience. Please know that, for some still unclarified reason, ” CANTORFAMILIES.com ” (the Official Cantor Fitzgerald 9/11 Memorial site) lists only about 360 of their alleged “657 casualties”.
I would be much obliged if you could post a list of the “real victims” you claim to have already verified as such – along with the criteria you have observed to reach this determination. Thanks.
Simon ShackJune 3, 2014 at 2:30 pm #9743
I thought it was implicit that I had not researched Cantor families. The number of deaths listed seems astronomically large.
I have researched the UK connected victims. As far as I can tell they are all real people. Do you have any evidence that they are not? I would be interested in any counter evidence.
You do not address the issue of faked deaths. Are you saying all Cantor employees in their apparently incomplete list are fake people?
xeliffilexJune 3, 2014 at 7:25 pm #9749
“I have researched the UK connected victims. As far as I can tell they are all real people.”
This is an interesting statement. Can you back it up with solid, verifiable documentation? You see, since you are the one claiming to have established the reality of the alleged 9/11 UK victims, the burden of proof is on you. For you to say “as far as I can tell” will not do. You need to produce verifiable documentation to back up your claims.
thanksJune 4, 2014 at 1:50 am #9754
I don’t think a sensible default is that everybody who died at the WTC is a fake identity. Name me someone who is not real in your opinion, Mr Shack, from the UK victms.
OK, here’s one from the Cantor stable: Suria Clarke. Real or not real?June 4, 2014 at 5:56 am #9760Tom DalpraParticipant
Simulated victims needs qualifying – sim people or sim deaths.
I don’t think a sensible default is that everybody who died at the WTC is a fake identity.
Separating the wheat from the chaff- these two sentences strike me as worthy of intelligent discourse.
I have researched the UK connected victims. As far as I can tell they are all real people
I’d love to see your research on British victims of 9/11 xileffilex – you have the great Simon Shack engaged – lets go, I’ll join in.
“as far as I can tell” will not do.
– that would seem fair.
Now, ‘simulated victims needs qualifying’. Indeed.
We agree 3,000 people didn’t die on 9/11, yes? That’s the very trick.
But how was it pulled off? How did they make the death seem convincing?
There’s three different ways that come to my mind at this time:
– We have faked deaths of real identities.
– We have the concept of completely created identities, presented as deceased – ( this would be Simon and Hoi’s, Vicsims in my understanding).
– There’s also the technique of taking a real death of someone with a predictably terminal illness (or perhaps an accident) and spinning it out however you want ( the idea we explored on Psyopticon’s Jill Dando thread ).
To say ALL the simulated victims on 9/11 were Vicsims is, strictly speaking, as you suggest, not a sensible default position. Of course a psyOp such as 9/11 on such a grand scale, would probably employ all and every tried and tested method of victim synthesis. We see the trap we can fall into with the terminology.
It’s a bit like the towers argument.
It was Simon and Hoi who came up with the idea of simulated victims on 9/11, as far as I knew. Prior to that I, personally, hadn’t thought that the victims could have been faked. Simple as that. That’s the one BIG taboo. THE big one, as far as I see it. Fake victims.
That they then coined term VICSIM, should not rule out other forms of simulated death which I have always presumed their broad theory encapsulated.
Vicsims still being an important, very credible explanation for the bulk of the 3,000 in my understanding, at this point. ‘Keep it simple’.
That said there would be some reason, it occurs to me, to have some real people’s deaths faked, if you will? It’s like the moronic argument we hear with the towers ”Well they were there and now they’re gone – 9/11 did happen”. Real people disappearing -having some genuine entities – on 9/11 would go a long way. It would help the credibility.
I have a friend, I met post 9/11, he’s a New Yorker, my age, from an academic family; successful musician; front-man in a band, writer; intelligent; bit of a lefty dupe for the mainstream alternative but…genuinely nice guy.
So we met and we got round to 9/11 – turns out he’d done the classic: ‘I-believed-it-was-fake-for-a-day-and-then-went-scurrying-back-to safety-when I-experienced-Hoi’s-vertigo’ ( This last phrase -Hoi’s Vertigo- I have just coined 🙂 I hope you get me).
When I introduced the idea of faked deaths and simulated victims he said he ‘KNEW someone who had died on 9/11’. I believe him. As I say, he’s a good guy. Not a liar.
When I pushed him for details it turns out she was an ‘old’ Hollywood actress.
I said that I believed and hoped that she was still alive and her death had been faked.
My belief is that she wasn’t a VICSIM – she was a faked death.
Vicsims still being an important idea,
DalTampraJune 4, 2014 at 6:18 am #9766
Interesting case: Suria Clarke is the alleged missing daughter of Mrs Alex Clarke, chair of the September 11 Families Support Group. Tom Clarke (Suria’s alleged brother) is the press officer of the same – and is a science editor at Channel 4 (trained in journalism in NYC, notably with the ABC TV network). Tom is known for covering topics such as the “Swine Flu” and the “Global Warming”: http://www.channel4.com/news/tom-clarke
Here is some relevant research performed back in 2010 by our Cluesforum member “Smoking Gun” (whom I believe is from the UK – or thereabouts):
“Despite extensive attempts of tracing Suria through the UK births, marriages, deaths index (BDM), I can’t find her. Indeed, only one Suria Clarke appears and she was born in 1995.” read more at: http://www.cluesforum.info/viewtopic.php?p=1509967#p1509967
Now, alleged 9/11 victim Suria Clarke supposedly worked for Cantor Fitzgerald (its “E-speed” division), Yet, no “Suria Clarke” is listed at their official tribute site:
So there seems to be no trace of Suria Clarke either in the US or in the UK. By the way, here is the tribute page at The September 11 UK Families Support Group. Suria Clarke is one of only twelve (out of 67 reported UK 9/11 victims) who has a personal tribute page there. Yet, no one has ever bothered to write a tribute for poor Suria – her page features only a picture of a pretty young woman. Sad, isn’t it? :
Over to you, xileffilex : what information do you have concerning “Suria Clarke”?June 4, 2014 at 7:42 am #9768smjParticipant
i agree with tom here. this issue does need some sorting. for example, i believe that barbara olson was flesh and blood and that her victimhood was simulated. therefore, i have no problem referring to her as a vicsim. i think the term vicsim applies equally well under these conditions.
the persona of barbara olson may of had a flesh and blood component in its portrayal; however, it doesn’t necessarily follow that any of that blood had to be spilled during the ritual.June 4, 2014 at 1:19 pm #9772
Simon Shack wrote:
“Despite extensive attempts of tracing Suria through the UK births, marriages, deaths index (BDM), I can’t find her. Indeed, only one Suria Clarke appears and she was born in 1995.”
Suria Clarke’s birth is clearly available for all to see in 1971 under her real name Rachel Emma Suria Clarke, registered in Sheffield, 4th quarter.
That details of her later life are admittedly sketchy is neither here nor there. She and her two brothers, Thomas James W (Tom) [b.1973] and John Alexander G (Jack) [b.1982] were certainly born as full siblings. Mother’s maiden name: Margaret A Clokie.
Let’s try another.
Is Geoff Campbell real or fake?June 4, 2014 at 3:26 pm #9784
Thanks for inspiring me to take a closer look at “Suria Clarke”.
You can read about it here:
Searching for SURIA http://cluesforum.info/viewtopic.php?p=2390509#p2390509
As for “Geoff Campbell”, I’m afraid I’ll have to pass – since Geoff’s alleged grieving brother Matt (a ‘militant’ with the rich and powerful A&E 9/11 gate-keeping operation) has recently threatened me with physical violence / medieval-style torture:
MATT CAMPBELL wants me to be flogged in public http://cluesforum.info/viewtopic.php?p=2389910#p2389910
Good luck in your search for 9/11 truth. You’ll need it. 😉June 4, 2014 at 4:17 pm #9788
Thanks for you link to your very recent research on Suria CLarke. I note you ignore to refer to her real identity, name and birth. Nevertheless, this is a rich seam to mine. Her university course, and career in Belgium are shrouded in mystery. She only joined espeed immediately before 9/11.
BTW, Tom CLarke only joined Channel 4 over two years after 9/11.
xileffilexJune 4, 2014 at 5:13 pm #9790
What do you mean by this statement of yours?
“I note you ignore to refer to her real identity, name and birth.”
I know full well that her supposed full name is “Suria Rachel Emma Clarke” – and have posted her alleged full name on my forum.
The very 9/11 National Museum at ground Zero has her name as “Suria R.E. Clarke”:
So what’s your problem ? Also, what do you mean to prove with this line of yours?
“Suria Clarke’s birth is clearly available for all to see in 1971 under her real name Rachel Emma Suria Clarke, registered in Sheffield, 4th quarter.”
Can you please post these records for all of us to see? Thanks.June 4, 2014 at 8:32 pm #9791psyopticonParticipant
These BMD registrars, like HM Coroners, will be integral components of Nutwork. There’s no difficulty in adding a few fake “births” in the BMD register, for later use in these sorts of spooky operations. In the 1970s registers were all paper-based and hand-written, so it was no biggie to slot in a couple of illicit entries every so often, to be used for intelligence purposes many decades ahead. Today it’s even easier to digitally fake a BMD record.
Even today, you don’t need to present a body (dead or alive) to obtain a listing in the register; just a certificate from a compliant quack, or sim-quack. And noone checks if a supposed corpse has been buried, etc. There’s no tie-up in the registers. Burials are an entirely separate record – not held by the State. In the case of 911 they didn’t even need to bother with fake burials.
I did a brief study of one aristocratic British family. Over the years they’ve manufactured numerous sims in their own family – registering fake births with BMD for use decades later. It’s suspected that these sims were created for a variety of scams – life insurance swindles, corporate/finance frauds, fake military deaths in conflict, and so on.
Sacrificing their sim flesh-and-bloods during war-time is a powerful propaganda tool of the elite. It’s an important social leveller. The aristocracy can ‘boast’ that – like the plebs sent to the trenches – they too make the greatest commitment to the war effort, AND also paid the ultimate price for their heroism. (digressing a bit, but for much the same reason the Battenberg-Windsors faked the Luftwaffe bombing of the orangery at Buckingham Palace: “At last we can look the East End in the eye”)
So entries in BMD are not really proof of anything. Especially if you’ve got the BMD “records” from 192.com or ancestry.com / genealogy.com, and similar. They’re only digital abstractions, created from allegedly digitised/scanned original paperwork. But who’s to tell if they’re not contemporary fakes? You’d really have to examine the original record sheets held in HM GOV archives. And even then, maybe an extra (sim) birth can be added 30 years later at the footer of a paper sheet, etc..
I’m not persuaded that any of the Brit victims of 911 are real. In fact, the “victims” I looked at were created so badly – with such glaring flaws in their social backgrounds and their supposed education and employment – that they just had to be sims!
And surely if you find just one sim among the 60+ victims, doesn’t that immediately throw the credibility of the rest into doubt?
Fool me once..June 5, 2014 at 2:04 am #9792
For the record, you can view original bound volumes of BMDs online from the date of the birth. These are typed, you know that. Any amendments are added in handwriting. You know that. You can even touch the bound volumes at Kew Record Office. I think you can obtain Birth Certs for people over 50 without qualfication.
Can you supply me with one definitive fake identity? Deaths can be faked and are faked, which is the point I originally made and which Mr Shack chooses to ignore, because it doesn’t fit in with his everything is fake/everybody is a sim theory.
Psyopicon – you seem to support the view that deaths can be faked easily But faked births and marriages years before 9/11 so victms can be teed up? Yet you think all the UK victims are sims. One sim? Which one? Can you identfy any glaring educational and social flaws for me? You are not convincing me.
Mr Shack, I have no idea what you are on about. If you want to see the records you can subscribe to Ancestry.com.
You ignored the point about Geoff Campbell. Perhaps he is mad because he, his brother Geoff and his other extremely elusive brother Rob, all did/do exist. The birth records are all there in the public domain. Passing on this key figure is no good at all. By your critera, Geoff Campbell is a sim. I happen to disagree.June 5, 2014 at 6:30 am #9793
As the story goes, Geoff Campbell’s cadaver is gradually being returned to his family in the UK, piecemeal, courtesy of the New York Medical Examiner office. Here’s what Matt Campbell (Geoff’s alleged grieving brother) recently wrote to me:
“Geoff’s first bone was identified in 2002, then three more in 2003/2004, then the hair/scalp/tissue in 2007 and another bone last year.”
And here’s Matt vividly remembering the parcel he received in 2008 – in a video featuring Matt at an “Architects & Engineers for 9/11 Truth” conference:
At 8:05 into video: “”I vividly remember the day we received some more of Geoff’s remains, this was back in 2008, it was his scalp, with hair attached to his skin, the soft tissue of his left ear, his eye socket and his eyebrow, along with some of his jaw, and three teeth”.
One can only imagine the joy of Geoff’s family members each time the postman knocks on their door, delivering yet another of Geoff’s body parts (presumably neatly sealed in a refrigerated thermos container?). Who knows, perhaps by the year 2045 – or thereabouts – sufficient parts of Geoff will have been collected to assemble a Frankenstein-like Geoff-replica? Let us wait and see.
On the other hand, poor Suria Clarke’s family is sadly left with no hope of ever reassembling their loved one – since not even a finger of hers was ever recovered:
“The Clarkes know there will never be a body. John is not concerned about its lack or the absence of a funeral, and Alex understood from her first trip to New York after Suria’s death that it was inconceivable that any part of her could have survived the pyre of the World Trade Centre.”
“I knew that somewhere in that was my daughter, but I was there six weeks later, staying in a hotel way up in New York, but you could see the steam and the smoke still rising from there, so the temperature levels down below would have been very, very high. Science just told you. Things went straight down the middle and would have been going down through a gigantic coffee grinder and then been being cooked, really, I suppose.”
“Science just told you” – says Tom Clarke’s mother. And of course, she should know : Tom is the resident science-expert at Channel 4 television. And any scientist will tell you that female bodies, being of a weaker constitution, vaporize much better than male bodies. 🙄
And so it goes…
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